Md State Police and Walmart abuse of power

[Mike128]

Hello all,
If you recall I wrote a topic on how Walmart was taking down driver license information whenever you bought ammunition at their stores on the Eastern Shore of MD. I thought this was over with the stores agreeing to make it an option not mandatory. Well, I was wrong.
Today I went to buy ammo when I was asked for ID. When the gentleman began to copy the information I told him I didn't want that to happen. I was then told it was law. I got the MSP trooper name in charge of the taking the sheets. (I will not post it here) I then went down to the local MSP barracks and asked what this was about. I know it's not law, the AG doesn't know about it, Walmart Corporate doesn't know about it, the MSP administration doesn't know about it.
After the Sgt at the desk spoke with the trooper in charge of the program I found out the following:

-It is part of Project Exile. A program to decrease gun violence.
-If the MSP get a gun crime they will match up the bullets casing and question purchasers of that type of ammunition.
-It is NOT a law but a POLICY.

This is extremely disturbing to me. The MSP can exert tremendouse power and is using this power to enforce POLICIES. This means this kind of behavior does not have to be voted on by the goverment and people.

The local MD'ers for gun rights please contact me because I need to find out who to contact and how to proceed. I think it is time we bring this to the attention of the public, NRA, and whoever else.

Others please contact Walmart coporate and pressure them to stop this. If this can happen here it can happen anywhere. The Eastern Shore of MD is different than the rest of MD. We love our guns and if this can happen here think of how easy it can happen in other areas, California to be specific.

 

[ApexinM3]

Mike,
I can't say I've tried purchasing ammo at Walmart-in fact I try to avoid the place-but since you brought it up, I will attempt to do so. The way I am understanding it is since it is not a law but a policy, that means I can refuse to give said information without repercusions. What do you all think?

My easy way of solving this problem is to not buy ammo at Walmart. I usually buy online by the case anyways, so it is a moot point for me.

As for solving any crime-uh, yeah right. Look at the fired casing law for new handgun purchases in MD; it has solved exactly zero crimes. In fact, the casings are being stored in a trailor in Jessup now & the MSP has not allocated any funds to continue the tracking/storage of said casings. I'm still looking to verify this, so when I get hard facts, I'll post them.

 

[Mike128]

As far as I know it is not all Walmarts in MD. I purchased some ammo at other places to check without having them copy my ID. They did look at it to make sure I'm 18. It's just the Walmart in the lower Eastern Shore that I know of that does this. Cambridge, Fruitland, and Salisbury are definites. They won't sell ammunition to you without being allowed to copy your DL. The MSP told me that if I disagree just buy somewhere else. I'm planning on doing that from now on but I think we need to nip this in the bud before it becomes a bill.

Please Call Walmart Coporate and let them know why your not buying ammo from them. 1-800-WAL-MART

 

[Crosshair]

I work at Wal-mart here in ND and sell ammo all the time. Here is how it goes.

Customer: Can I get a box of those 180 grain 40 S&W.
Me: The Remington or the Winchester?
Customer: Winchester (WWB is our bread and butter. Sell alot of it.)
Me: Sure, can I see ID please.
Customer: Here ya go.
Me: (Check DOB, hand card back.) There ya go. Have a nice day.

I have NEVER heard about having to take down info on ammo buys. It certianly isn't a company wide policy. The only time I even ask for ID is when they look to be under 30 or I can't tell if they are over 18/21. I'd look kinda dumb asking for ID from the dad with two middle school age kids.

 

[Thefabulousfink]

Something's Not Kosher

This type of info would be usless in a criminal investigation and only marginal in a trial. The invesitgators would need to allready have a suspect, and all this would tell them is that they bought a popular brand of ammo from a very popular store. They would still need to find the gun and run a ballistics test, and gather a lot more evidence before they could even arrest the suspect, let alone get a conviction.

I can see the DA now, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury it is obvious that the defendend shot the victim because he purchased a box of Winchester White Box 9MM the day before the murder took place, Thus giving him forthought, opertuntiy, and motive."

This sounds more like the ploy of some politically ambitious Sheriff or Mayor to hassle gun owners and seem "Tough" on crime.

 

[brickeyee]

Guess the MSP never learned why the ammunition log books disapeared after McKlure-Volmer (Firearm Owner's Protection Act).
Remember all the .22 RF in the book. Every transaction recorded for any ammunition that could be used in a handgun. Pages and pages of BS that never solved anything.
Might be time to call the AJ in Annapolis and have a talk.

 

[Henry Bowman]

The good news is that MD is a geographically small state. Within an hour or so of driving in any direction this "policy" no longer applies.

 

[pcf]

This is extremely disturbing to me. The MSP can exert tremendouse power and is using this power to enforce POLICIES. This means this kind of behavior does not have to be voted on by the goverment and people.

Walmart collects this information voluntarily and turns it over to the MDSP Trooper, voluntarily. MDSP has no way to enforce their "policy" on Walmart.


Do you have the address for the Walmart in question?


If you write to:

Wal-Mart Stores, Inc.
Attn: Customer Service
702 S.W. 8th Street
Bentonville, AR 72716

about your experience, Wal-Mart Corporate Headquarters will put a leash on the store manager.

 

[carterbeauford]

Not sure what a MD DL looks like, but try putting your thumb over any identifying numbers on it when displaying it to the clerk and make it clear the DL does not leave your hands. If they don't like it, leave.

Can't help but shamelessly plug the idea of moving when I read about things like this, there is a free state to your north/northwest.

 

[brickeyee]

" ...free state to your north/northwest."

And one to the south.

 

[Mike128]

I already called Walmart Coporate office. The first time in Febuary the store manager changed it to an option wether I allow them to copy DL information. They would still sell ammunition to me if I didn't want my information copied. It's now back to mandatory for ammunition sales.
Corporate said it's up to the store manager and they (Corporate) will comply with MDSP requests. I assume if enough people call Walmart Corporate will force the local Walmart to change this policy. From what the sales person says, it's so they are allowed to sell guns without getting hassled.

 

[whm1974]

I can see the DA now, "Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury it is obvious that the defendend shot the victim because he purchased a box of Winchester White Box 9MM the day before the murder took place, Thus giving him forthought, opertuntiy, and motive."

Right, and how many other people also brought 9mm WWB that same day?

Guess the MSP never learned why the ammunition log books disapeared after McKlure-Volmer (Firearm Owner's Protection Act).
Remember all the .22 RF in the book. Every transaction recorded for any ammunition that could be used in a handgun. Pages and pages of BS that never solved anything.

And how much .22 RF gets sold everyday? Every with CF pistol rounds people buy a few hunder at a time if they are going shooting.

-Bill

 

[pcf]

I already called Walmart Coporate office. The first time in Febuary the store manager changed it to an option wether I allow them to copy DL information. They would still sell ammunition to me if I didn't want my information copied. It's now back to mandatory for ammunition sales.
Corporate said it's up to the store manager and they (Corporate) will comply with MDSP requests. I assume if enough people call Walmart Corporate will force the local Walmart to change this policy. From what the sales person says, it's so they are allowed to sell guns without getting hassled.

Phone calls don't work, write letters. Phone calls are only as useful as the person who answers the phone. In big corporations useful people don't answer phones, and useful people do not take the time to talk to random people on the phone. Letters tend to survive first contact and can work their way higher up the food chain.

 

[jazurell]

Corporate said it's up to the store manager and they (Corporate) will comply with MDSP requests. I assume if enough people call Walmart Corporate will force the local Walmart to change this policy. From what the sales person says, it's so they are allowed to sell guns without getting hassled.

So then, Walmart doesn't like to be hassled....might remind Walmart their customers deserve the same consideration/treatment.

 

[Zundfolge]

So the local JBTs lean on a business to do something we don't like and we're supposed to jump all over the business?

I don't care how all powerful some of you guys think Walmart is, they aren't going to pick a fight with the local constabulary.

 

[EasternShore]

Mike,

North or South Wally World? I am curious...

 

[Mike128]

I only checked North Salisbury today, don't know about South. Originally it was both.

I'll write a letter to Walmart tomorrow. I'm also calling the trooper in charge tomorrow when he gets back. Anybody else I should call?

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Yet another reason to leave MD!

Not that I needed anymore.

As for people to call, after the Trooper I would call his boss and then whatever elected official that is in their foodchain. Also, might be a good idea to call a local elected official that is pro 2nd am.

I would also be clear to Wal-Mart that there are plenty of local shops that aren't making up stuff as they go!

 

[RM]

Mike,
I was also disturbed to see this practice occur at WalMarts in Baltimore County. Three WalMarts I went to in North Baltimore County wanted you to sign their log book with name, driver's license # and phone #. Surprisingly, I noticed recently at a different Walmart in the same general area that they have stopped doing this. Curious, I asked the clerk who said only that the store doesn't do that anymore. PM me if you think I can help you with this problem. Also, I may be wrong, but I think THR member Norton is also concerned about this issue. You may want to pm him. One thing I am not clear about: who is really at fault here- MSP or Walmart? It sounds like MSP is requesting the information. What "good citizen" refuses to help the police?

 

[CNYCacher]

Try this

Put your license in one of those clear plastic holders. Use a permanent marker on the outside of the plastic to cover up stuff you dont care to share with the world when you are merely trying to prove your age.

 

[Derby FALs]

We Condemn "Project Exile"





To All Americans:

The current NRA leadership’s "Project Exile" program
demands "zero tolerance" enforcement of all existing federal gun
laws. But most—if not all—of these laws are unconstitutional
violations of the Second Amendment. American firearm owners and
supporters of the Bill of Rights have invested countless millions of
dollars and man-hours to prevent these same laws from ever being
passed. Clear-thinking Americans continue to work tirelessly to repeal
them.

Enemies of the right of self-defense and the Second Amendment, such as
Handgun Control Inc., Bill Clinton, and Charles Schumer, all strongly support
"Project Exile, because "Project Exile" is an official
endorsement of these onerous gun laws – including the
infamous 1994 "Crime Bill" which outlawed "high
capacity" magazines and banned perfectly Constitutional militia
rifles.

The NRA’s current leadership says that "Project Exile" is
aimed at convicting violent felons. But of course these laws can be—and
will be—used against any citizen who breaks them.
"Project Exile" demands enforcement, with Zero Tolerance and
minimum 5-year prison terms, of current federal laws enforceable
against any American man or woman who, for example:

* attaches a +2 extension to a "post-ban" Glock pistol
magazine

* attaches a flash suppresser, folding stock, or bayonet lug to a
"post ban" militia rifle

* accidentally carries a concealed weapon (with state
"license" or not) into a federally prohibited area, such as
near a school or into a post office

* drives to another state to give a family member (even a son or a
granddaughter) a handgun without going through the instant check
registration scheme

* possesses a gun while subject to a restraining order, regardless of
the absence of violence, and without a trial or any legal adversarial
process having taken place

* commits ANY minor infraction of ANY unconstitutional federal gun law

Should Americans go to prison for the acts described above? "Project
Exile" says YES.

There is no connection between supporting the Bill of Rights and
supporting federal laws that are un-American. Moreover, the
agencies that enforce such laws slaughtered over eighty people in Waco,
shot to death a young boy and his mother at Ruby Ridge, and continually
commit brutal acts against citizens under the guise of "gun
control". The "legal" excuse behind the Waco massacre was
the unproved suspicion of "illegal" machine gun
possession. The "legal" excuse behind the Ruby Ridge killings
was a shotgun that may have been ¼ inch too short. Both are
examples of "zero tolerance".

As for the issue of crime, dissatisfaction regarding the removal of
criminals from our streets should be directed toward state and local
lawmaking bodies—the same entities which often refuse to reduce crime
by respecting our right to bear arms for self-defense.

Governments have murdered tens of millions of their own citizens in the
last century alone—mass murders that were often greatly facilitated by
civilian disarmament aided by firearms registration. Conventional
criminals continue daily to add to their terrible toll of victims.
Therefore we call upon legislators to repeal ALL LAWS which infringe upon
the right of Americans to freely carry arms in defense of self, family,
and country. And we call on the NRA’s leadership to repudiate
"Project Exile", which, by supporting such laws, is a grotesque
betrayal of the eighty-three million American firearm owners who conduct
peaceable lives every day; a betrayal of the Second Amendment; and a
betrayal of the entire Bill of Rights, the Constitution, and the freedoms
Americans hold dear.

This statement is endorsed by the following:

Anti-"Exile",
Pro-Second Amendment Coalition Organizers

Brian Puckett, President, Citizens Of
America; Co-founder, GunTruths.com

Angel Shamaya, Founder, Exec. Director, KeepAndBearArms.org/.com

Russ Howard, Exec. Director, Citizens Against Corruption; Past
Director, NRA, On Exile

Larry Pratt, Exec. Director, Gun Owners of
America

Anti-"Exile",
Pro-Second Amendment Coalition Members

Aaron Zelman,
Exec. Director, Jews for the Preservation of
Firearms Ownership

Leroy Pyle, President, Paul Revere Network;
Past NRA Director; Founding Exec. Director, Law
Enforcement Alliance of America; NRA Benefactor Member, NRA Law
Enforcement Committee; NRA Firearms Instructor

Steve Silver, President, Lawyers Second Amendment
Society; Co-founder GunTruths.com;
Sec. Amendment Attorney

Albert Ross, Director, Texas State Rifle Association; Treasurer, Dallas Arms
Collectors Association, Inc.; Past NRA Director & 2nd Vice-President

Nancy Herrington, Executive Vice President, Women Against Gun Control,
Georgia State
Director - Women Against Gun Control

Sarah Thompson, M.D., Founder, Executive Director, Utah Gun
Owners Alliance

Kevin Starrett, Executive Director, Oregon Firearms
Federation

Reginald Shinn,
State Chairman, California American Pistol & Rifle Association

Harry Schneider, Chairman, Pennsylvania Sportsmen's Association

Gary S. Marbut, President, Montana Shooting Sports
Association

Larry Farrell,
President, Gun Owners of New Jersey

Tom Chandler,
Chairman, Capital District Shooters
Committee On Political
Education (SCOPE) NY's
Largest Second Amendment Civil Rights
Group

Ed Kelleher,
President, Grass Roots South
Carolina

Paul Valone,
President, Grass
Roots North Carolina

Dudley Brown,
Executive Director, Rocky Mountain Gun
Owners

Bill Duff,
Legislative Chairman, Keystone Firearms Coalition [PA]

Jack Iannantuono,
Spokesman, Lehigh Valley Firearms Coalition representing nearly
20,000 second amendment supporters in eastern PA

John Harris,
Executive Director, Tennessee
Firearms Association, author of "Carrying a Handgun
for Self-Defense in Tennessee"

Barry Bright,
President, Free Kentucky

Jeff Chan,
President, RKBA.org

Larry R. Rankin,
Chairman, California American Pistol & Rifle Association, Santa
Barbara County; Life Member, GOA,
NRA, CRPA, LEAA, On Exile

Arthur "Art" Nichols,
President, N. Orange County NRA Members Council; NRA Life
Member, Benefactor, On Exile

David Gross,
Founding Director, Past Pres., Minnesota Gun Owners Civil Rights
Alliance; Former Chairman, NRA High-power Committee

Andrew E. Barniskis,
Legislative Chairman, Bucks County Sportsmen's Coalition [Pennsylvania]

John Birch,
President, Concealed Carry, Inc.

Nancyann Rutledge,
President, Citizens' Gun Rights
Alliance, (formerly the Santa Barbara NRA Members
Council, decertified after refusing to support gun control
and anti-gun candidates)

Bernie Oliver,
President, Brass Roots, Inc.
[Arizona]

Bob Glass,
President, Tyranny Response Team

A. Nathan Zeliff,
Founder and President, SaveOurGuns.com

Jerry F. Phillips,
Founder and Director, GunsAndCrime.com

Weldon Clark,
President, Second Amendment News

Melissa & Neal Seaman,
Co-Presidents, Fi9arms.com, On
Exile

H.S. "Gunnie" Reagan (Major, Retired (USAR),
NRA Life Member and Patron Member; Member GOA, SAF, Deer Tribe Gun
Club Founder, SASS, IDPA, USPSA, IPSC, Vietnam Veteran

L. Neil Smith,
Noted author,
pro-liberty and pro-Constitution activist

J. R. Nyquist,
Author, "Origins
of the Fourth World War", Archives

J.J. Johnson,
Editor-in-Chief, SierraTimes.com
[noted internet news magazine]

Arnold Gaunt,
Utah Republican Party State Central Committee member; NRA Endowment
member

Val Finnell, M.D.,
Past President, Virginia Citizens
Defense League

Chris BeHanna,
Past Board Member, Coalition of New Jersey
Sportsmen
Life GOA & NRA



To All Pro-RKBA organization executives and officers: We
welcome your endorsement of this statement. To add your name and/or
that of your organization, please email [email protected]
with your name, title, organization name, web site address, contact
phone numbers, and a brief statement about your concerns regarding
Project Exile. Please also include any data or web site links you
have regarding this dangerous program.




Sincerely,

The Undersigned

 

[gezzer]

You have a choice DON"T BUY AT WAL-MART. How hard is that? Do not complain about your rights if You, Yourself do not protect them.

Free Enterprise is the basis of this country.

 

[K-Romulus]

gezzer:

The problem with this Wal-Mart thing is that the MSP seem to be trying to institute a de facto ammo purchase registry by going in the backdoor.

We all saw the implications of this registry when a poster said the police intend to shake down all purchasers of a certain caliber if that caliber is used somewhere in a crime. This technique was used to round up all .223 caliber firearms in the MD-DC area during the 2002 SniperGuys shootings, to zero effect.

When the MSP can say to a non-politically aware store owner that "All the other stores are doing it, don't you want to stop gun violence?", what do you think will be the result? The non-aware store owner will also just shrug at those who don't want to buy under the registry and dismiss those folks as "the sort of people I shouldn't sell ammo too, anyway."

We in MD have been pretty lucky these past few years ("lucky" in the context of MD politics) and do not want to turn back the clock. That's why people are so concerned about this.

 

[Baba Louie]

Anybody else I should call?

Who controls the MSP budget? State Legislature? As Ohen suggested, a carefully crafted letter or twelve hundred or so, sent to PRO-2A type elected officials (are there any in MD?) might, just might, have positive results. Letters from voters seem to have a longer lasting effect, when coupled with phone calls. See what your local gun club membership can do in terms of both. Tie up their phone lines, tie up their mail rooms, make your point well known.

But I have my doubts.

One set of stolen ID info could and should cause all types of concern for those elected officials (imagination leading me to think of a future Mohammed Atta-type getting their hands on this type of info... shades of EFAD). Not that WalMart would worry about that... financially speaking of course. It's not like they have "Deep Pockets" or anything (that's the ONLY thing that big business will listen to, doncha know?). Bottom line to them is money. To you, it's just a freedom/liberty thing... silly wabbit.

To the MSP it's a crime prevention thing (which is a good thing at a very low level, unless abused by anyone in the chain) ...that Franklin quote about giving up Liberty for Security thing comes to mind. (Weren't some of those old men wise beyond belief?)

 

[Ryder]

Everything is mandatory these days.