Meeting at Elementary School.....kids/guns/frustration....

[fjolnirsson]

...It's a pity we do not simnply allow bad parents to be bad. Their children are already casualties by the time the reach school age; if those children can pull themselves out, they will, and if they can't, no amount of no-chiild-left-behind, AVID, or free lunch will do it for them.

Let 'em go. Weep if you have to. But stop dragging everyone else down to their level!

We'd be better off as a society without free universal mandatory public education. Where data is available, literacy levels were higher before we had it!

If all the schools were private, we'd be rid of most of the flap over peaceable adults carrying the weapons that protect honest men and women and the civikization they have built. I am not holding my breath.

(And don't come crying to me about the plight of the poor. There were plenty of schools for them before you -- and childless me! -- were taxed to pay for "free" government-run schools).

As long as we keep encouraging stupid, lazy and/or shiftless people to flourish, we'll have a surplus them. It's not a good idea. It holds back the folks who do care.

"Guns in school?" Schools used to have rifle teams! It was a non-issue! Now... sheeesh.

--Herself

Herself,
As usual, I read your post and find myself nodding. You've nailed it.

The school system will no longer allow decent teachers to toss the rotten apples from the barrel, and it's causing the good fruit to spoil. Maybe we need to get rid of barrels, and start keeping our fruit in baskets....
Well, that sort of fell apart at the end, but you get my meaning, I'm sure...

 

[Herself]

Thanks, fjolnirsson!

...I'd be happier with what I wrote if it didn't have my usual quota of typos and elisions.

But it's true -- we're taking good kids (and bad ones), good teachers (and some bad ones), and hammering them all into the same ill-fitting mold, and everyone loses. It's time to try something different.

--H

 

[fantacmet]

Mad Chemist

Actually universities fall under the public school jurisdiction. Someone was suing Oregon State for something thathadn't happened yet. The courts simply found in favor of OSU, not that they were within their rights to ban firearms, but that since the person in question was not arrested he had no grounds for a lawsuit, however if he WERE to be arrested for carrying his legally concealed firearm, that would be another matter. The courts more or less just evaded the entire subject, probably so the judge would not make enemies of the gun grabbers I would suspect. Anyway you can check this out in more detail at www.oregonfirearms.org which is a site I highly recommend even to those who do not live in Oregon.

Rev. Michael

 

[Double Maduro]

fantacmet,
Mad Chemist,
EtAl,

You should take a look at this site.

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/index.html

They have a pretty good handle on this, as demonstrated here.

http://www.oregonfirearms.org/news/20011126gunsinps.html

As was explained to me, in my CHL class, as a CHL holder, I am allowed to carry in all public schools. Even private schools, we have no law regarding no weapon signs, they can put one up but it doesn't mean anything, they can only ask you to leave. If you don't then you can be charged with trespassing.

The OFF site has some interresting things to say about these types of rules. Check out the section on the Portland Airport.

Every state is different, check your local laws.

How many times has tyrrany been justified by the phrase, "it's the law"? Whether it is or not, we tend to buckle under, I applaud those who fight back.

DM

 

[TexasRifleman]

It's in Texas schools as well.

Last year I offered to get the Eddie Eagle outfit and do that whole safety thing at my sons elementary school.

The principal about had a fit!!
She flatly refused to even discuss it.

I wrote her and asked her to turn me down in writing.

I have her letter and if some poor child is injured by playing with a gun I'm going to mail her a copy a day for a year.......

 

[Zundfolge]

Ok I've been over this before, but not here. Federal law does quite plainly stomp state law. Federal law also prohibits the carrying of all firearms on school property WITH exceptions.

IIRC under Clinton that law was passed (no guns within 1000 feet of a school) but it has been overturned by the SCOUTS.

Please site what Federal law you are referring to.

 

[san408]

Beorn, pax, Don...
I respect y'all for having a civil discussion.
I will add this: every year it gets harder to teach. I've been doing it 9 years now. I love teaching. I love teaching physics. I revel in the moment that the little light in the back of the kids' heads goes on, when you hear the almost audible click! when they make the connection. I love the fact that I permanently change the brain of a student, improve the quality of the rest of his/her life.
<rant self-edited back out>
We realize that success is earned; payed for in the currency of work, attention, care, and time. I had a loud argument with another teacher this morning over lunch about that very topic. It had to do with school, responsibility, free speech, celebrities, the values of the regular citizen, and such... you had to be there. I had at least half of the other teachers in my corner.
Keep the faith

I couldn't have said it better myself. This is my eleventh year of high school chemistry (in front of the class not sitting in it ) I love it. AHHH stoichiometry.

I love the way some folks will just throw a huge blanket statement over thousands of individuals. Teachers are just that, individuals. Individuals that approach their job with a varying degree of professionalism just like any other job. The poster that stated that you don't hear from the conservative teacher because they go do their job, nailed it 100%.

I don't talk to my students about my politics (although many of them know I'm a conservative), and I don't try to push my beliefs on them. Some of them know I like to hunt and I've got a couple of students who have brought in pictures of kills to show me.

I'm lucky. My daughter's are going to the same elementary school I went to, and the wife of my best friend teaches there. She keeps us up to date on the other teachers. They will attend the Junior high my wife teaches at, and they will attend the high school I teach at. Their teachers through junior high, and high school will be picked. I have alot of parents who do the same thing and they don't have my connections. There are ways to be active as a parent to make a difference in your childs education, but it's easier to sit back and blame someone else most of the time.

This should in no way be read as a rant. I'm just making comments. Pax, you would make a great educator. Kids like to be talked to instead of talked at. You seem to be pretty good at that. An ability to communicate makes my job amazingly easy. (well, it helps to know a little stuff too.)

 

[Colt]

Our local public schools are excellent. They aren't socialist indorctination centers. The reason is very simple: We parents hold the teachers, principal, and school board responsible. We keep involved in what are kids are learning at school. We get to know the teachers. When some 23 year-old teacher, fresh out of college, opens her mouth to spout about "the evils of guns" we're all over her like white on rice, if the other teachers don't get her first.

I don't understand some peoples' first reaction when hearing of a liberal/socialist/brainwashing incident in a public school (not even their own): throw up their hands, run around in circles, and sign up for private schooling. What happened to having backbone enough to fight? You're paying for the schools, why let a bunch of wrong-headed dopes steal your taxes and force you to pay a private institution to do the job they should already be doing? Would you let them walk into your house and steal your belongings, too?

Fight! All that evil needs to succeed is for good men (an women) to do nothing. Make some noise, get involved. Fight!

Or don't. But please don't try to tell me it's hopeless. I can't hear you. I'm busy fighting.

 

[Chrontius]

<SNIP of excellent common-sense gun training idea>
One of the biggest reasons that kids carry guns is the exactly same reason that many adults carry guns.... They're scared.
I know many adults don't like to go anywhere unarmed... so why do adults think that kids would feel any different?
If someone is going to harm you, they REALLY intend to harm you... they don't need a gun to do it...

Anyone else agree with me here???

Absolutely. *mods +1, Insightful*

It only took a stalking on my part to make this point.

Herself,
As usual, I read your post and find myself nodding. You've nailed it.

The school system will no longer allow decent teachers to toss the rotten apples from the barrel, and it's causing the good fruit to spoil. Maybe we need to get rid of barrels, and start keeping our fruit in baskets....
Well, that sort of fell apart at the end, but you get my meaning, I'm sure...

Where am I going and why am I in this handbasket?