Miami to give officers assault weapons

[security6]

Miami to give officers assault weapons, from: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070917/ap_on_re_us/officers_injured_2

MIAMI - Patrol officers will have the option of carrying assault rifles as police try to combat the rise in the use of similar weapons by criminals, Miami's police chief said Sunday.

Police Chief John Timoney approved the new policy last week, before a Miami-Dade police officer was killed in a shootout with an assault rifle-wielding suspect on Thursday.

"This is something we do not do with any relish. We do this reluctantly," Timoney said.

The policy had been under review for about a year due to officers seeing an increase in the weapons, Timoney said.

Officers interested in the guns will have to undergo two days of training and be certified to use the weapons. The police department doesn't yet have money to purchase the guns, and if officers want to use them now, they will have to pay for them, Timoney said.

Years ago, law enforcement specialists like SWAT teams were the only officers to carry assault weapons, but now even small town police agencies are expanding access to the AR-15, a civilian version of the military M-16 rifle.

Patrol officers in Danbury, Conn., have been allowed to carry the weapons since 2003. Police departments in Merced, Calif., and Waterloo, Iowa, have deployed them in all patrol vehicles for several years. In Stillwater, Okla., about 70 miles west of Tulsa, every police patrol officer is issued an AR-15.

Officers in Los Angeles have been equipped with the weapons even longer, soon after a 1997 gunfight outside a bank where police faced a man armed with an AK-47. Officers in that situation had to go to a nearby gun store to get high-velocity weapons.

Timoney said it has become apparent over the last year that Miami officers need the option of more powerful weapons.

The Miami Police Department said 15 of its 79 homicides last year involved assault weapons. This year, 12 of the 60 homicides have involved the high-power guns.

On Thursday, a gunman opened fire on four Miami-Dade County police officers with an assault rifle during a traffic stop, killing one and injuring the other three. Police killed the suspect hours later.

Officers using the weapons in Miami will shoot "frangible" bullets, which shatter after they've hit something to avoid striking bystanders or other unintended targets.

Not all officers may choose to carry the new weapon. But, said Timoney: "If I was a police officer out there in a tough neighborhood, I would want to have that in the car."

I was surprised to hear that 12 of 60 homicides involved "assault rifles" this year in Miami. I wonder how they define assault rifle. I wonder if those homicides include swat team using assault rifles to kill bad guys.

 

[strat81]

I wonder how they define assault rifle.

My guess: Anything with a pistol grip, thumbhole stock, or semi-automatic.

You know, the scary stuff. I doubt 12 select-fire weapons were used in murders in Miami this year.

 

[Joey_the_Wolf]

"I was surprised to hear that 12 of 60 homocides involved "assault rifles" this year in Miami. I wonder how they define assault rifle. I wonder if those homocides include swat team using assault rifles to kill bad guys. "

Just more fodder fow AWB II...

 

[Robert Hairless]

I believe that "assault rifle" is defined as any firearm, including a shotgun, revolver, or semi-automatic pistol, that The Brady Campaign does not want you to own.

"Assault rifles" are bad. If they are banned they will go away as if they had never been invented, everyone will be happy, no one will die from inhaling secondhand smoke or eating food with trans fat, Mary Jane will go for a penny and chocolate chip cookies will be replaced by munchies with more oomph, Al Gore will have been elected President and George W. Bush would not even have been born, Saddam Hussein would still occupy his rightful position as the benign ruler of Iraq, all rural white males will have disappeared from the face of the Earth, Hillary Clinton will give us a workable health care plan just like in England, Barack Obama will turn out to have actually done something in life, and Al Sharpton will make a fortune selling his line of Tawana Brawley products. Our world will become Paradise once "assault rifles" are gone from the face of the Earth.

I am appalled, therefore, that the Miami police department will have "assault rifles." Those things are used to kill people, I understand, and that's the wrong direction for any policeman to pursue. It reduces him to the level of criminals. Once the police have "assault rifles" how are we to know who are the criminals? From what the media tell me, only bad people have "assault rifles." Tut tut.

Your misspelling of "homicide" might suggest to those of us whose consciousnesses are raised above our eyebrows that you are a neo-crypto-fascisto-metrosexual-homophobic-republanistan. Please correct your error immediately.

 

[wheelgunslinger]

The police department doesn't yet have money to purchase the guns, and if officers want to use them now, they will have to pay for them, Timoney said.

You gotta be kidding me. In an affluent area like Miami, they don't have a sufficient budget or tax base?

 

[Hauptmann]

Gotta love law enforcement, they always make their good decisions after someone gets killed and even then it is only a half-assed attempt at improving the situation. Frangible ammo?......are you kidding me?!?! Maybe they will switch to a real bullet after several officers get killed because they couldn't shoot through intermediate barriers. Then of course they try to match the bad guy's firepower with a semiauto option instead of a step above him with selective fire.

Only the blood of a COP can make things better for other COPs.

 

[Avenger29]

Who was it that posted in a thread here that a rural police officer that they knew was issued an 870, an AR-15, and a Rem. 700 .308?

I'm quite suprised that Miami police officers don't have AR-15's already...

Every other police department seems eager to get 'em.

 

[Jimmie]

Anybody else think there were way more than 60 murders in Miami so far this year?

 

[Nil]

I'm quite suprised that Miami police officers don't have AR-15's already...

Every other police department seems eager to get 'em.

Same here. I know officers here already have already have them as do many in the smaller towns throughout the state (WI).

 

[Hauptmann]

The LAPD didn't have rifles until the bank shootout in 1997. The robbers used body armor and had full auto AKs. After the shootout, the LAPD got a few AR-15s, but I believe they only got them for supervisors and they are not issued to every patrol vehicle.

 

[walking arsenal]

I was surprised to hear that 12 of 60 homicides involved "assault rifles"

The key word here is "involved".

My bet is that the arrests were carried out the BG had one in a closet or under a couch.

Hey it was involved right? Good enough for statistics. Gotta blow that homeland defense grant somehow.

 

[Travis McGee]

Don't worry, the cops will need to undergo an extensive comprehensive TWO DAY AR-15 training course.

/sarcasm

 

[Avenger29]

Hey it was involved right? Good enough for statistics. Gotta blow that homeland defense grant somehow.

Don't forget the seized drug money...

 

[Rokyudai]

There was a television report on a local San Antonio channel a few days ago. Departments are going to allow their police officers to carry their home rifles i.e. AR15 variety provided they meet the department's specifications and that they attend training sessions. Although I am all for trying to give LEOs enough firepower to battle the bad guys...I just think it's a sad message to send to the LE in general...it's like bringing your own band aids to the hospital.

 

[CountGlockula]

Officers interested in the guns will have to undergo two days of training and be certified to use the weapons.

I don't think two days of training will cover proficiency in handling an AR for our LEOs. I'd be able to sleep at night if they had constant training.

 

[Hauptmann]

I don't think two days of training will cover proficiency in handling an AR for our LEOs. I'd be able to sleep at night if they had constant training.

For most agencies, the standard AR-15 course is 8 hours of class room work which involves the ins and outs of the AR-15 and field stripping/cleaning. Then there's a few hours of time on the range and qualifications. That's it. For selective fire you're looking at about a two day course and about two days on the range.

 

[CountGlockula]

And what about CQC, real life scenarios, etc? I'm sure that's covered in their training.

It's great that the Miami LEOs are going to get their hands on AWs, if budget allows...but I know that civies get more training than LEOs. Anyways, I work at a shooting range and I get all giddy when I see LEOs train in the firing line, especially when they score 2" or less groupings.

 

[Cannonball888]

Not even Crockett and Tubbs were issued "assault weapons"

 

[Avenger29]

There was a television report on a local San Antonio channel a few days ago. Departments are going to allow their police officers to carry their home rifles i.e. AR15 variety provided they meet the department's specifications and that they attend training sessions. Although I am all for trying to give LEOs enough firepower to battle the bad guys...I just think it's a sad message to send to the LE in general...it's like bringing your own band aids to the hospital.

Maybe having the officers provide their own duty weapons will help cut down on the abuse of weapons, as frequently evidenced by department guns.

 

[barnetmill]

I do not hear anything about teaching officers to be better shots with their side arms. An AK is certainly better than a 9mm or .40 pistol, but 4 people working as a team armed with multishot handguns as in miami should have been able to at least wound the bad guy.

I certainly would not want be walking in a neighborhood in which a bunch of poorly trained cops open up with AR's using a spray and pray technique. The fact is a decent shot with even an old model 15 S&W can score a head shot at 50 yards. But of course with proper training I have no problem with the cops carrying rifle, but the old pump shotgun is still useful.

 

[Hauptmann]

It has a lot to do with mind set too. That perp was determined to avoid capture at all costs and he was ready to kill as many ppl as it took for him to get away. It's the cornered rat syndrome. This particular perp was also wearing body armor.

A COP on the other hand wants to go home at the end of the day and they were likely taking defensive positions. Not so great against at rifle round which will punch holes through their vehicles with ease.

 

[DirksterG30]

I was surprised to hear that 12 of 60 homicides involved "assault rifles"

The key word here is "involved".

My bet is that the arrests were carried out the BG had one in a closet or under a couch.

Hey it was involved right? Good enough for statistics. Gotta blow that homeland defense grant somehow.

Actually, the link above says:

The Miami Police Department said 15 of its 79 homicides last year involved assault weapons. This year, 12 of the 60 homicides have involved the high-power guns.

15 of 79 homicides involved "assault weapons" - not rifles, and 12 of 60 homicides involved "high-power guns". I just love how they use these scary-sounding, vague terms, right out of the Brady Bunch playbook. Can anyone clearly define an assault weapon - a Glock 17 with a std. cap mag? Mossberg 500 with 7rd mag tube? AK-47? Ruger 10/22 with 30rd mag? How about a high-power gun? These phrases don't serve to define or inform, but to produce an emotional response. Junk reporting at its best. :banghead:

 

[sacp81170a]

For most agencies, the standard AR-15 course is 8 hours of class room work which involves the ins and outs of the AR-15 and field stripping/cleaning. Then there's a few hours of time on the range and qualifications.

Our Patrol Rifle Course was 5 days long and involved about 1500 rounds of ammo. It included firing the standard Army qualification course along with CQC scenarios, transition from rifle to handgun, point shooting, shooting on the move, malfunction drills, i.e., everything you'd expect to get from a Gun Site or Thunder Ranch course. It was taught by a former Marine Sniper and a former Army Master Sergeant. No LEO in Arkansas is allowed to carry an AR on patrol unless they have graduated from this course per POST.

Most of the guys in the course were former military, so it was old hat for us.

And what about CQC, real life scenarios, etc? I'm sure that's covered in their training.

Yep. I'm kind of surprised that Miami wasn't already doing this. We've had a state wide training standard in place in Arkansas for several years. My department issues an AR (Colt A3's with Aimpoint sights) and a shotgun. We have tactical qualifications once a quarter, fire for record once a year and use AR's in our training scenarios when they're called for.

Don't know what the big deal is about officers having rifles available for use, since this has been common practice in more rural areas for a long time. It's just that now we're using a rifle that has the advantages of commonality of training, ammo and ease of use.

 

[Novus Collectus]

The Miami Police Department said 15 of its 79 homicides last year involved assault weapons. This year, 12 of the 60 homicides have involved the high-power guns.

Read the words carefully, they are most likely playing word and number games.
"Homicides" as someone pointed out could mean justifiable homicides which includs self defense and law enforcment shootings.
"Assault weapons" can include pistols and certain shotguns. They can even sometimes claim "high capacity" magazined pistols in the definition, but since the ban ended they probably include pistols such as Tec 9s.
"High power guns" can be any hunting rifle for deer.
"Involved", also as someone pointed out this does not mean someone was shot with one, it could mean the person shot had one or there was one found on the scene but not necessarily used.

I assume the reason they used different names of the weapons for each stat is that it inflates the numbers and makes both years appear there were a dozen or more "assault rifle" associated murders.
I.e. 12 murders involved let's say four "military style" rifles, four Tec 9 pistols, three semi auto Mac 10 pistols.
Now the figures for next year where they claim 15 "high power guns" were involved, there are only three "military style rifles", seven hunting rifles and five unkown and unrecovered guns that fired a rifle round.
The number of so called "assault rifles" may be seven used in a homicide out of 139 homicides, but the way they say the numbers the way they did people will assume it is 27.

 

[MD_Willington]

Hmmm.. I live in a podunk town and our guy has an AR and a .45 sidearm, the other PD's nearby carry AR's, and the Lewiston PD, have both a shotgun and an AR in their cruisers...

Now these towns have nowhere near the same amount of LEO's as Miami's towns...

One of the Guys at the Saiga-12 forum is an Armorer for a PD, and they carry Saiga's with high cap magazines among other things.