Miami to give officers assault weapons

[Officers'Wife]

Hi Avenger,

The band aid comp is a little off the wall as well as inaccurate. Many trades require the worker to buy their own tools and generally results in better equipped workers. Mainly because a guy sitting behind a desk cannot imagine the guy on the job needing a tool A when tool B is similar.

Going from general to specific, would it make sense that a person would be more likely to practice (i.e. train) with his own weapon than one issued by an employer?

Selena

 

[hrgrisso]

Your Own Gun? Agreed!

I think that giving them the option to take their own gun to work neener is a good idea. My local Sheriffs dept growing up had 2 designated marksmen. They brought their own rifles (bolt action) to work. Of of them had to use it to take out an engine block after some yahoos decided to shoot at a couple of officers doing a speed trap.

I think that officers wife brings up a good point, that if it's yours you'll probably practice with it more and be more familiar with it in a stressful situation, i.e. greater retention of fine motor skill, motor memory etc.

 

[Correia]

The Miami Police Department said 15 of its 79 homicides last year involved assault weapons. This year, 12 of the 60 homicides have involved the high-power guns.

15 of those 60 were related to the TV show Burn Notice.

All I can say is about time. A rifle is just another tool in the tool box. And for the poster talking about 4 guys with handguns vs. 1 with a rifle, or taking 50 meter head shots with a .38 - These are gun fights we're talking about. They aren't supposed to be FAIR. If you're in a fair fight, you did something wrong.

 

[woodybrighton]

one 14 int soldier killed 3 and wounded the 4th terrorist who were all armed with m16s and he only had a 9mm
he was lucky that day.
uk armed police mostly carry hk g36 and pistols
guess it comes down to budget getting an officer to put 1500 rounds down range means he's not doing police work so somebodies carrying his shift.
that one of the reasons a lot of uk coppers don't want to carry firearms they know theres no way in hell there get the regular training they need to be effective.

 

[Winchester 73]

wheelgunslinger,the City of Miami is not an affluent area.In fact as of the 2004 US Census Bureau figures of cities over 250,000, Miami ranks #1 as America's poorest city per capita income.
You are thinking of wealthy suburbs such as Coral Gables,Key Biscayne,Adventura and Miami Lakes.These are separate municipalities with their own tax base.This does not help the City of Miami's revenue stream.
This town is a joke,run into the ground by crooked Pols and LEOS for the past 75 years.See these stats:

http://dcjobsource.com/richest.html

 

[Rokyudai]

Officer's Wife,

I will address your comment since it was I who made the bandaid statement and not Avenger. Though I agree with you in the fact "tradesmen" are required (in some cases) to buy their own tools. I believe LEO,paramilitary, and military are not positions where this practice should be commonplace. I am more concerned about this act passing as a remedy for underequipped, underfunded (yes some are and some aren't) departments. As for the training, it only helps some (those who own an AR15). I don't believe this to be cost effective for a department much less aiding in its need to operate cohesively. That is primarily why departments use a singular make and model service handgun and train on that (hopefully with some degree of frequency). Some LEOs that I have spoke with attest to the tactical advantage of swapping magazines with one and another should they find themself out of ammo during a firefight. If (hypothetically) in this scenario and you run out of ammo...it will not make sense to have someone throw you a AR 15 mag when you have something notably different (ok I am stretching admittedly). I think everyone should have the training and equipment to do their job. It should not be expected that these professions provide their own guns. Thank you for your opinion though.

 

[JKimball]

Wow, this story blew me away. Here I've been reading about all the violent crime that's going down in that part of the world and just assumed the cops would be loaded for bear. Congratulations, Miami, and welcome to the 21st century.

"This is something we do not do with any relish. We do this reluctantly," Timoney said.

Unbelievable.

Officers interested in the guns will have to undergo two days of training

Unbelievable.

 

[jkingrph]

Why do they all need AR types at 600-1000 dollars when a good old fashioned lever action 30-30 will do the job

 

[DWARREN123]

This is BS. If the LEO's are not supplied with the proper equipment and training then the are not effective.
I wonder if they folks in charge have ever had to assault someone? If they ever do their definition of assault weapon will change very fast.

 

[[FH]K96]

This is just observation to what I have seen in cruisers/ patrol cars in Los Angeles- today on the way to work and stuck in traffic I saw an AR-15 pattern rifle and shotgun in a CHP (CA Highway Patrol) car. I have seen a couple times in UCLA police cruisers the same setup. My good friend who is an officer for the San Diego PD has an AR-15 rifle in his cruiser as well. As previously mentioned, the '97 North Hollywood shootout most likely prompted this in CA.

 

[Mannlicher]

I like the part where the Chief says he is issuing frangible ammo.

 

[Geronimo45]

Wasn't the 'Miami Shootout' with the FBI versus guys with full-auto weapons somewhere in this neighborhood? I'd've thought they would adopt rifles then.

And the 'frangible ammunition'... in answer to a shooter with a rifle and a bulletproof (using the term loosely) vest, they choose a rifle... but with frangible ammunition? Not sure of the AP capabilities of .223 hollowpoint/softpoint rounds... but I'm thinking that the performance of frangible ammo versus body armor will be mediocre. Could be wrong, though.

"This is something we do not do with any relish. We do this reluctantly," Timoney said.

I'm guessing this guy's a political appointee? What police chief in his right mind doesn't want his officers to be better armed than the people shooting at 'em?

 

[Prince Yamato]

Why do they all need AR types at 600-1000 dollars when a good old fashioned lever action 30-30 will do the job

Why don't we just give them full-auto AKs? $200 per rifle, for a gun that will do everything they need it to do.

 

[jeff-10]

You gotta be kidding me. In an affluent area like Miami, they don't have a sufficient budget or tax base?

Miami has had budget problems for years. Cops and teachers have had to take pay cuts at times. Miami doesn't even bother to settle law suits half the time as they don't pay out on court ordered judgements anyways. I am sure plenty of money has come in from the tax base but corruption is probably at South American levels.

 

[ArmedBear]

Our college campus cop cars all have an 870 and an AR racked in them, here in San Diego. And San Diego isn't famous for violent drug and gang activity like Miami has been for years.

I don't think "assault rifles" are magically more effective than other long guns, but give me a break! Miami?

 

[Bones11b]

Actually Prince Yamato the last time I was offered an AK in Miami it was $250 for a semi auto and $350 for a full auto. The guys even offered to let me test fire one right there in the middle of the street. I politely declined and got out of the area as fast as possible.

 

[Winchester 73]

Geronimo45 you are correct.Timoney is appointed and can only be fired by the Miami CIty Manager.
He just got nailed driving a free Lexus SUV for over a year(he was supposedly road testing it!),paid 54K out of his pocket for the vehicle and mea cupla'd that he made a bad mistake in judgement.An old Irish pal from NYC owns the dealership.
2 Miami City Commisioners called for his firing on ethical grounds(the Chief being big on preaching ethics to his lowly commoner officers)but so far the hypocrital Chief ,famous for his rants against "civilian"ownership of firearms while in NYC and Philly remains firmly in the saddle in hapless Miami.The Miami Fraternal Order of Police just had a vote last week.83% of his own officers want him to get of town.He is despised and hated by his own men.But Timoney vows to remain on the job.And almost certainly will resume settling scores with the FOP leadership.
We are used to this here in America's foremost Banana Republic.

 

[MD_Willington]

Why do they all need AR types at 600-1000 dollars when a good old fashioned lever action 30-30 will do the job

Well they don't need to, but it is nice if they all standardize on a rifle, and if they are familiar with the rifle from a previous job i.e. the military, then it would make sense to get them an AR based rifle...

 

[rosco22]

When will they learn ...........................

The FBI Miami shootout was a gun battle that occurred on April 11, 1986 in Miami, Florida between multiple FBI agents and two heavily armed and well-trained suspects. The firefight claimed the lives of special agents Gerald Dove and Benjamin Grogan, as well as the two suspects, William Russel Matix and Michael Platt. To date, it remains the only incident in FBI history wherein two of its agents were killed in the same confrontation.[citation needed] In addition, five other agents were severely injured during the gunfight.

The incident is infamous for a number of well-documented reasons: first, despite outnumbering the suspects 3 to 1, the agents found themselves pinned down by rifle fire. Secondly, the suspects were not incapacitated by repeated traumatic hits from the agents' standard-issue handguns, and finally, the suspects continued to fight after being shot.

Still not up to speed ............................

The North Hollywood shootout was an armed confrontation between two heavily-armed and armored bank robbers, Larry Phillips, Jr. and Emil Matasareanu, and patrol and SWAT officers of the Los Angeles Police Department in North Hollywood, California on February 28, 1997. It happened when responding patrol officers engaged Phillips and Matasareanu leaving the robbed bank. Sixteen officers and civilians were wounded before both of them were shot down. Phillips and Matasareanu had previously robbed several banks prior to their attempt in North Hollywood and were notorious for their heavy armament, which included automatic assault rifles.

The incident highlighted the growing divergence between the offensive and defensive technologies available to law enforcement officers and those available to criminals. United States patrol officers typically armed with a 9mm or .40 caliber pistol on their person, with a 12-gauge shotgun available in their cars. Phillips and Matasareanu carried fully automatic assault rifles and wore body armor. Since most handgun calibers cannot penetrate body armor, patrol officers had a significant disadvantage until SWAT arrived with equivalent firepower; they also appropriated several semi-automatic rifles from a nearby firearms dealer to help even the odds. The incident sparked debate on the appropriate firepower for patrol officers to have available in similar situations in the future.

Out here the Sheriff's office has M14's . Some of the deputy's don't like them " To much recoil , to loud , it's heavy .....etc. " I shoot with them on yearly qual. day , my friend is the tester . Why would an patrol car NOT have a rifle ?? 556 at a min , 762 would be a better choice as it turns cover into concealment . A Scout M1A would fit a car nicely . When you go into battle bring a battle rifle and fight !!!

As for Timoney , he's an anti gun retard and has no place commanding officers . I have written him a ass burner of a letter correcting every one of his comments that is anti gun or just plain wrong .



The court system failed the officers here . RIP .............

 

[Joey_the_Wolf]

From what I understand, alot of cops in the area do carry AR-15s. My brother in law is a police officer in Virginia Gardens, and from what I understand his chief was considering having him carry it in his car just in case it really hits the fan. This is a relatively small department though. Back when he was working in another local dept, he had it in his squad car during every shift, and there was really no special permission or anything required. From what I understand it was commonplace. I'm sure alot of cops in Miami carry ARs. Here's the thing (and I'm sure alot of locals will back me up on this one). There are literally dozens of agencies within the Miami metropolitan and suburban area. Miami PD is just one of them. We have Metro-Dade, Hialeah, Pembroke Pines, Kendal, Virginia Gardens, and a few others working within pretty much the same general "Miami" area. I'm sure it's the same way in pretty much any large metropolitan area. And the whole bit about Miami "not being able to afford" the weapons sounds like BS to me. Although having lived in and around Miami for a very large percentage of my life, I can tell you that it's pretty well known that not all the money that is supposed to go somewhere, actually gets there. Miami is well known for it's bureaucracy and inefficiency. And with all the gang bangers and other not so nice groups in the city, I'm sure that there were alot more than just "60 murders" this year...
Don't get me wrong... I grew up in that city, most of my family still lives there, and it holds a dear place in my heart, but I'm glad I left it. That place is a war zone.

 

[Never No More]

I wonder how they define assault rifle.

The liberal anti-gun media way

 

[W.E.G.]

Homeland Defense Rifle

 

[qbpc]

Years ago, law enforcement specialists like SWAT teams were the only officers to carry assault weapons, but now even small town police agencies are expanding access to the AR-15, a civilian version of the military M-16 rifle.

I remember about 20 (I was a teen) years ago local LEO carried either an 870 or a Mini14 in their patrol cars right beside the radio. I guess these are not on the AWB so they didn't count. A swat team was something we saw only in the movies. All these were purchased by the patrol officer to.

 

[rosco22]

Thats a great pic W.E.G. !!!! needs to be posted once a month .
\

 

[MisterPX]

Where has MPD been for the last 10 years!? Only thinking about Carbines now!?