Molon Labe?

[Bad Words]

I hear people here use "molon labe" a lot, meaning "come and take them", and I've heard that it was spoken by the Spartans at Thermopylae.

But what I wonder is, that I've read several books about the Spartans, as has my dad, and I've seen a couple shows about them on the History Channel, but I've never heard this quote from anywhere except gun forums and that one web page with no source given they all reference. It also seems strange to me that this quote would be passed on by the opposing army. Whenever I hear this quote it reminds me of Nathan Hale's quote that seems to have spawned from a mention by his captors that he died well.

I'd like to point out that I do respect the concept, but am merely skeptical of its roots.

So my question is this: What evidence is there that these words were ever spoken?

 

[FPrice]

Try this post from TFL:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160504&highlight=molon+labe

There was an essay on the phrase on TFL but I could not find it when I just searched.

 

[Bad Words]

Thank you. I was hoping to see some reference to it older than 10 years. That helps.

 

[Sam Adams]

Watch the movie "The 300 Spartans" made in the late 1950's. It is there. This is not some hyped-up, made-up phrase, it really happened. The Spartans were offered their lives in return for throwing down their weapons. Leonidas I said "Molon Labe," meaning "Come and take them." The Persians did - after losing about 10,000 soldiers in 3 days, many from the (not so) Immortals, which were the personal guard of the Persian Emperor.

 

[Bad Words]

Thanks Sam. I wasn't trying to put down a phrase that is beloved by many and captures a spirit that I believe in myself... it just struck me as odd that I hadn't heard it anywhere else. You're right that it does seem like a reasonable response to an order to surrender, though. I've been considering posing this question before, but was somewhat afraid of negative responses to my questioning it.

 

[Molon Labe]

You guys talking about me again?

 

[Pilgrim]

It apparently comes from the writings of the historian Herodotus.

Pilgrim

 

[Bad Words]

Pilgrim - a reference from the time frame is exactly what I was looking for. I don't have time to read that now because I have school, but I'll check it out later. Thank you.

 

[ScorpioVI]

Watch the movie "The 300 Spartans" made in the late 1950's.

Odd, I thought I was the only one that knew about that movie. Found it by accident rooting through the bargain DVDs at WalMart. I was wondering if they would have a reference to Molon Labe in it and was not disappointed.

 

[psyopspec]

Watch the movie "The 300 Spartans" made in the late 1950's. It is there. This is not some hyped-up, made-up phrase, it really happened.

It really happend because it was in an old-Hollywood epic film?

 

[FPrice]

Molon Labe...

You guys talking about me again?

How did you guess???

 

[duck hunt]

It really happend because it was in an old-Hollywood epic film

Yeah, the same way belly dancers really wore jewels in their navels and danced sexy dances in the harem so the sultan would pick them for the night. :banghead:

(File that away for the next time you really want to tick off a belly dancer.)

Seriously, though, it is cited in Herodotus so I believe it does go back farther than the silver screen.

 

[Harry Tuttle]

Statue of Leonidas
The monument stands opposite the historical hill of Kolonos and represents Leonidas in full armour. It was designed by B. Phalereus, and was erected in the 1950s at the expense of Greeks living in America.

The monument was built to commemorate the battle at Thermopylae, and is located at the centre of the pass, where the final phase of the battle took place, as is attested by the accumulation at the foot of the hill of iron and bronze spearheads dated to the 5th century B.C. Members of the Amphiktyony erected on the hill a stone statue of a lion in memory of the deceased warriors, with an epigram written by Simonides, but the monument is not preserved today.

 

[Sam Adams]

Scorpio VI

Odd, I thought I was the only one that knew about that movie. Found it by accident rooting through the bargain DVDs at WalMart. I was wondering if they would have a reference to Molon Labe in it and was not disappointed.

I taped the movie about 8 months ago. 3 weeks later, I saw the DVD in Wallyworld - and I picked it up. It was a good excuse to watch the movie again ("honey, I have to see if it actually has all of the movie burned onto the disk").

 

[Sam Adams]

psyopspec & duck hunt

It really happend because it was in an old-Hollywood epic film?

Yeah, the same way belly dancers really wore jewels in their navels and danced sexy dances in the harem so the sultan would pick them for the night.

OK, wiseguys, this is what I responded to (Post #1):

But what I wonder is, that I've read several books about the Spartans, as has my dad, and I've seen a couple shows about them on the History Channel, but I've never heard this quote from anywhere except gun forums and that one web page with no source given they all reference.

I simply told Bad Words where else, besides gun forums and one web page, that the quote had been uttered.

However, where do you think that the Hollyweird guys got the phrase from? Do you think that they knew ancient Greek, or the significance of the words? No, they got it from someone who researched the whole story from actual history books and put it into a script. Movie makers do tend to leave many things out, and to twist the meaning of many things that actually occurred, but messing up a 2-word phrase is kind of challenging, even for Hollyweird.

 

[Farnham]

I don't recall if "Molon Labe" is said verbatim by Leonidas in Stephen Pressfield's book "Gates of Fire", about the Battle of Thermopylae and the Spartans in particular, but I know he says something to that effect to an envoy from Xerxes (probably with more profanity, Pressfield "updated" how soldiers talked in that era, so they sound more like soldiers probably always have ).

The book takes the historical and archaeological knowledge we have today of the battle and puts it into a story about the brotherhood of warriors, and the sacrifice they made for their society. Well researched, and very well written.

One more place for you to check, anyway, and it really is a great book (cool descriptions of ancient weapons, training, and tactics, too).

Farnham

P.S. If you like books like this one, check out "The Ten Thousand" as well.