Mueller Optics

[Mags]

You know what I just realized? The picture of the scope damage from Mueller optics is either not my scope or the scope is not sitting as it would be mounted on a rifle.

Look at the pictures I posted on page 1 and you will see the battery cover and adjustment for the illuminated reticle on the rear occular. The same battery holder cannot be seen in Mueller's picture.

So for those of you that say the damage is consistent with vertical rings maybe you should reconsider since if that is in fact my scope the damge would be on the side or bottom of the scope. If it is the side that would be consistent with standard horizontal rings, and if it is on the bottom that is where the metal sandwich is on the American Defense mount that would prevent overtightening.

 

[kwelz]

Mags, you are not paying attention. The scope is turned upside down to show the damage caused during mounting.

And this is exactly where vertical rings would pinch and crush.

 

[Mags]

You may be right Azizza. BTW, The bottom of the scope is also where the serial number is, but I don't remember if it is on the rear bell or under where the rear ring sits.

 

[X-Rap]

Folks are trying to act as if Mueller is a fly-by-night outfit selling junk to unsuspecting customers but nothing could be further from the truth. Regardless of what some folks here may think, Mueller is EXTREMELY well reputed and their products are highly recommended among those who know.

They like many companies are banking on their name recognition and reputation before they gave up their claim as a manufacturer. When products come from China they are built by little more than slaves and then slapped with a familiar label, if you get one that was assembled well then it may perform as advertised, its more than likely only a shadow of what it was as a domestic product.

 

[benzy2]

I don't think Mueller (at least the one selling scopes) has ever claimed to make their scopes in house in the US. In fact I think they have been fairly upfront about where their products were produced.

 

[X-Rap]

I thought Mueller went back a ways in the scope field. I may be mistaken on them but a quick look at many old name products will see a lot of piggy back junk coming from China. I recently looked at a Burris AR scope that had it not been made in China I would have bought albeit for probably an extra $100.
Here is another proud US company that isn't ashamed to support communism http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100929/ts_alt_afp/uschinacompanyinvestmentcaterpillar_20100929130112

 

[vmfrantz]

Wow. I thought about trying a muller scope. After hearing how they stand behind their product it's a no go now. Think I'll just get another Burris or Weaver.

 

[CraigC]

You guys that think Mueller's customer service sucks should do a search at RimfireCentral before jumping in with the job.

 

[Mags]

Craig, just so you know most reputable scope companies have a no BS return policy where you could use your scope as a hammer and then return it for full replacement.

I certainly did not abuse my Mueller scope and the scope did arrive with a defect. Even if I did pinch the scope which I still am skeptical, Mueller should have repaired or replaced the scope. I was very up front with them from the git-go, I am sure if I lied I would not be in this predicament.

Also Craig what the hell kind of paint chips on the interior of a scope from "pinching"?

Like I said I wanted to like the Mueller but their CS has killed that for me, I think I will now get a Bushnell elite or a Vortex. Both of those companies have a no BS warranty and maybe if I am up front with Midway they may take my Mueller scope back, otherwise I will just use it as a door prop or a hammer.

 

[benzy2]

A lot of scope companies have stingy return policies.

Try getting warranty work done on a weaver without the original sales receipt.

Nikon states the lifetime warranty is void of "any product that has been subject to abuse, misuse, neglect, alteration, abnormal use or accident"(same exceptions as Mueller).

Bushnell Elite models have a 1 year no questions asked return policy, though you can only do that once in the first year. After that the lifetime warranty has the stipulation: "These warranties do not cover consumer caused damages such as misuse, abuse or repairs attempted by someone other than our authorized technicians", again same as Mueller.

Burris is harder to track down a specific warranty card without having bought one. It says free from manufacturing defects, doesn't mention if they cover user error as well.

Vortex is good so far. I was told they were all on an over the counter warranty when I bought mine. I was told I could take it to any Vortex dealer, swap it for the same model, and be out the door. Well, that gave up when none of the dealers would honor that warranty, even the one I bought the scope from. Haven't had to return it, but have talked to a handful of stocking dealers and have yet to find one that would do the over the counter trade.

Leupold, sure they are at the tops of the CS game. They also have a $100+ premium over similar featured/quality scopes so you do pay for the better CS. May be worth it if you have problems, not worth it if you don't.

Sightron's warranty is lifetime but doesn't cover "damage which occurs from shipping" or "failures from accident, misuse, abuse, neglect," ect. ect.

The point is, most optics manufacturers have the same wording as Mueller with regards to repairs/warranty work. They may or may not deem a similar situation as user error and may call it a defect in materials/workmanship. Don't know. But in the end, most have the same warranty system. A couple are better and a couple are worse. Mueller isn't out of line in how their warranty is worded compared to most of the competition out there today.

 

[jerkface11]

just so you know most reputable scope companies have a no BS return policy where you could use your scope as a hammer and then return it for full replacement

HA!! A friend of mine got a Bushnell scope that wouldn't hold a zero right out of the box and they refused to fix it because he couldn't find the reciept. Weaver wouldn't fix my target scope that started to wander because I wasn't the original owner. So that's two major scope companies with warranties that are at the best buy level.

 

[Txhillbilly]

I have 2 Mueller Eraticator scopes,and they have always been good optics for what I use them for.They seem to have a decent product for the money.

It's not right for them to not honor their warranty if something is inside the scope.
If they would fix/replace the scope it would do Mueller alot better public relations than to have someone get on the internet putting their products down,and telling everyone that Mueller won't uphold the warranty on their stuff.

Personally,I don't see how anyone could crank down a set of rings so much to bend the scope tube on the setup that was pictured on the AR15.
I know it can be done,but just how stupid do you have to be to torque down scope rings tight enough to bend the scope tube.

 

[JackTheRipper]

if the scope is $219.95, how much did Mueller offer you to buy it at cost?

I agree that Mueller should just bite the bullet and give you a new scope (Especially since the darn scope is already so cheap!), this forum will be searchable in google for anyone wanting to read a review about Mueller and will cost Mueller more money in the long run than making a customer happy...

I know I'll never recommend them...

just my 2 cents...

 

[kwelz]

For you people who will never recommend them or buy them yourself, would you also not purchase a car from a company that would not replace a vehicle that was backed into a light pole after the owner had it for 3 days?

 

[kmcintosh78]

benzy2,
In reference to the Vortex scope, call the head office in Madison WI. They will jump through flaming hoops of fire to help you out. They did with me. I will only buy Vortex from here on out, unless I got several k to drop on a US Optics.

 

[chas08]

Burris is harder to track down a specific warranty card without having bought one. It says free from manufacturing defects, doesn't mention if they cover user error as well.

I own three Burris scopes and three Leupolds. One of the Burris scopes had an internal failure. Burris quickly repaired the scope with no questions asked and returned it to me with a new neoprene scope cover to help offset my shipping charge and a letter of apology.

I thought that was top notch service, and it led to me buying the third Burris scope. The Leupolds, I've never had any trouble with. The one thing this thread has confirmed, for me at least, is that a Mueller will never sit atop a rifle of mine.

 

[madcratebuilder]

The OP should never have mounted a defective scope in the first place. He should have contacted Midway for a replacement and all this would have been avoided.

I have had several older vintage scopes repaired and the repair shop owner told me the number one problem he sees is scopes damaged by the scope rings. Either over tightening, poor scope rings or out of alignment rings. It doesn't take much to dent the aluminum tube. 15in lbs of tightening force is a lot of clamping force, put a scope ring on your finger and tighten it down to 15 in lbs.

I have three Mueller scopes and all have been fine, they are the best in their price range.

 

[Mags]

For you people who will never recommend them or buy them yourself, would you also not purchase a car from a company that would not replace a vehicle that was backed into a light pole after the owner had it for 3 days?

That's a dumb analogy because there was something wrong with the scope when I got it.

A more appropriate one would be you buy a car with something wrong with the engine, you try it out to see if you can live with it and then you get a ding on it at the grocery store and wanted the car returned for the engine problems. And the dealer won't take it back because they say your scratch is what caused the engine trouble.

The scope had a defect in it upon receipt.

 

[JackTheRipper]

the scope only cost $219.95... how much was their lower-at cost offer?

You would figure they would bite the bullet and please the customer rather than have their name and reputation dragged through the mud where the world could see by doing a simple google search on Mueller optic reviews...

Buy Swarovski! I did, I saved up for almost a year...


PS maybe it was damaged in return shipping to the company ;-)?

 

[benzy2]

You can claim a bent scope tube is like a door ding, but in reality, its much more like a bent chassis. The tolerances in a scope tube are tight. You bend/crimp the thing and all sorts of problems pop up. a bent scope tube fits under the term abuse/accident.

Do you agree that a crimped scope tube is the end users fault? Do you agree that a crimped scope tube falls outside of the warranty from mueller (and most others)?.

 

[CraigC]

That's a dumb analogy because there was something wrong with the scope when I got it.

It's a perfect analogy. You can't buy a car with a trunk that won't close right, back it into a telephone pole and then expect them to fix it for free because the trunk would'nt close in the first place.

I think you clamped it down with impudence because you were under the impression that you could not damage the scope. Maybe American Defense should replace your scope? Or maybe you should just admit that you screwed up and bite the bullet? Then you can apologize to Mueller for needlessly dragging their name through the mud.

I got a Burris 2x pistol scope from Midway a few years ago. The reticle was obviously very badly canted. Yes, I did want to shoot with it but I also wanted to get a quick replacement and I did not want to have to wait for a factory warranty claim to get handled. I did not mount the scope anyway, I promptly returned it and they promptly replaced it.

 

[hometheaterman]

Reguardless of who broke the scope tube, I think Muller should do something more than try to sell him another one. Vortex will still replace it no matter what you do with it. Leupold claims they won't if you damaged it, but I've never seen or heard of them turning down a warranty claim.

Not to mention, back before I had a clue what I was doing mounting scopes, I put some serious torque on some scope rings, both with cheap rings and cheap scopes. I even tightened one so much that it broke the Weaver rings. Guess what was inside of those rings? A $40-50 Simmons scope. Did it crush the scope tube? No, did it leave ring marks? No, did it do any damage other than the ring that broke? No. So I find it really hard to believe that a scope tube should bend in that easily if it's a quality scope. Seems to me like even if he did do that, the scope isn't very good quality, which would also stop me form buying one.

As for Bushnell, they have some customer service issues with their warranty department too.

If you want a good warranty that you can pretty much be sure will get honored, you basically have two options. As much as I hate to say this as I really think their products are over priced and some of their cheaper stuff isn't very good imo, but Leupold is great in the warranty department. They do exactly what they say and that is offer a lifetime warranty that they will honor. I think for the price of their scopes, they should send you a shipping label which they don't, but none the less paying the price of shipping to send it in isn't too bad.

The other option is Vortex who makes great scopes for the money.

 

[CoRoMo]

For you people who will never recommend them or buy them yourself, would you also not purchase a car from a company that would not replace a vehicle that was backed into a light pole after the owner had it for 3 days?

I'd buy the car, and I would not expect them to fix my mistake. RCBS not only fixed my mistake, they threw in some goodies that I was not entitled to, nor was I expecting.

I just read through the whole thread, but I have no idea what actually happened here. There's no way for any of us to really know, other than Mags himself. The response from Mueller was odd, to say the very least. Reminds me of when Alex Robinson had to throw out a few insults on that TFL thread years ago. I just don't quite get that type of public behavior. Whatever actually happened in this particular situation, it is enough to keep me from buying a Mueller. Sorry if that is capricious of me.

 

[HydeSmyler]

I'm no expert but it looks like the rings offer a large unsupported area directly underneath the scope tube. With all of the clamping/squeezing force being applied by the 3 top ring screws it seems natural that the aluminum tube is going to deform to the shape it is confined to under enough pressure.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I just read through the whole thread, but I have no idea what actually happened here. There's no way for any of us to really know, other than Mags himself. The response from Mueller was odd, to say the very least. Reminds me of when Alex Robinson had to throw out a few insults on that TFL thread years ago. I just don't quite get that type of public behavior.

Strongly agree with all.

Mueller may have a great reputation - I guess (I had never heard of them before this past summer). Mags is just some anonymous THR poster like most of us, but he's been around a while - not like someone whose first post is a huge rant of how unfair some company supposedly is. But, unless Mags and MOC start agreeing to the same story, it's hard for any of us to know what really happened. I'm trying to give both of them the benefit of the doubt.