I don't "carry" 24/7 but I always ccw when I go to a mall , any large store or any place where there are crowds . If ts hit tf and some psyco or terrorist started shooting inocent people , I would NOT go after the gunman even though I think that would be the right thing to do . I would only shoot some a-hole psyco in defence of myself or the people with me . In MA. , the Governor , attorney general , Boston mayor , Senators Kennedy and Kerry and other polititions don't think you should have the right to defend even yourself or family with a gun . If I went OUT OF MY WAY to try to save inocent people from being killed , I'm sure the attorney general would prosecute me . I'm sure they would try to make an example of me and try to put me in jail for a long time . At best , I would have to pay many $$$$ for attorney fees and lose my guns and right to ccw .
my $ .02 on using your ccw in defence of strangers
- Thread starter Handyman
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I wonder if the sheeple...er...people that were shot or tramatized would think to sue the CCW holder for NOT stopping the threat. They sue for everything else and if someone saw a CCW holder backing out of the mall pistol drawn to protect his family would/could they sue? It's an interesting dilema, I personally would take out the shooter if/when he/she turned my direction. I would not stalk him/her, but get my family out ASAP and if the gun pointed my direction it's over for them.
Mad Magyar
Member
Actually, I think you have a point...In the Mall incident in Utah, pulling out your weapon & assisting the LE might have been interpreted as "you being an accomplice" placing you & your family at risk...The off-duty officer, being in plain clothes, had to make sure a call was made (his girl-friend) describing him & I'm sure was recognized by his fellow LEO's; but you would not....
Protecting oneself & family is another matter when the action is directed your way....
Protecting oneself & family is another matter when the action is directed your way....
Thain
Member
I think - or would like to think - that I would focus on protecting myself or my family, and beating a retreat a fast as possible. If I had no clear escape route (unknown shooter location, but between me and the door) I would seek cover, and hunker down. I would not want to engage at all.
That said, if the shooter was to show up in my line-of-sight, I would probably take the shot, even if he wasn't actively looking my way. I figure, if he's shooting and I can see him, then he can see me.
In short, run away or hunker down. Take the shot if given the chance.
I'm not about to shout "Freeze!" or anything like that, either. I'm not a cop, and if I need to shoot, I'm shooting.
That said, if the shooter was to show up in my line-of-sight, I would probably take the shot, even if he wasn't actively looking my way. I figure, if he's shooting and I can see him, then he can see me.
In short, run away or hunker down. Take the shot if given the chance.
I'm not about to shout "Freeze!" or anything like that, either. I'm not a cop, and if I need to shoot, I'm shooting.
Savage3006
Member
Your main duty it to do what has to be done to protect yourself and people with you. You certainly do not want to run with your gun in hand into a gun battle without proper assessment of the situation (friendly fire!).
On top of that if you kill the bad guy you are likely to end up with a civil lawsuit!
On top of that if you kill the bad guy you are likely to end up with a civil lawsuit!
Savage3006
Member
In the case of the Olympic swimmer, the consequences of missing up trying to do something are no worse than doing nothing.
When bullet fly, the consequences of messing up are really bad. Going to someone rescue is fine, but how do you assess the situation? How many shooters are involved, where are they, etc?
When bullet fly, the consequences of messing up are really bad. Going to someone rescue is fine, but how do you assess the situation? How many shooters are involved, where are they, etc?
Delf Defence & others
Who are we afraid of more, the shooter or the DA? I personally think that if I can, it is my duty to stop a shooter, and worry about the DA later. If not, why even carry a gun? Carry a bag of law books. They MAY stop a bullet. If someone shot me while you stood by and let him, even thuogh you had the means to stop him, I would be more pissed at you than him. He was crazy, you were afraid of how much trouble YOU would get into ( maybe ). Are we becoming the sheep we so hate? My $.02 worth. O C
Who are we afraid of more, the shooter or the DA? I personally think that if I can, it is my duty to stop a shooter, and worry about the DA later. If not, why even carry a gun? Carry a bag of law books. They MAY stop a bullet. If someone shot me while you stood by and let him, even thuogh you had the means to stop him, I would be more pissed at you than him. He was crazy, you were afraid of how much trouble YOU would get into ( maybe ). Are we becoming the sheep we so hate? My $.02 worth. O C
It would never get to court. Permit holders are not responsible for law enforcement and not responsible for protecting the general public.distra said:
A point that I have made in the past is that in most States you (most anyone) can get a permit to carry a firearm. Because of this, people have the right to obtain the means to protect themselves by getting a permit and buying a gun. If someone makes the choice to not obtain and carry these two items on their person at all times, why should I care more about their personal safety than they do? There is too much risk and liability in shooting to protect non-family members.
1. will i have to sell my house, dump my 401K, flush my life savings fighting the DA? are you helping me pay?O C said:
2. will my wife divorce me?
3. will i be raped in jail and get AIDS while waiting for trial?
4. will i die in jail waiting for trial?
5. will i hire the right attorney?
6. what if i miss the perp and hit you and you are crippled for life? will you 'understand'? will your wife and family? will you sue me?
7. will you feed my family while i am in jail or dead trying to save your life?
The DA and legal system can cost you a lifetime of suffering and misery. Are you willing to shoot when you could have run? Look up “preclusion” as it pertains to use of deadly force.
Green Lantern
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I've had this talk on another board....good to see that there are quite a few fellow so-called "cowards" and "peacocks" here. 
The way I see it, my number one prioroty - legally AND ethically - is to GET MY FAMILY TO SAFETY. There is no "castle doctrine" where I live. If I escape a killer, then go back and re-engage him, I could be made into mince-meat in civil and criminal court. I pointed out that Mike Nifong is a DA in my state, and he tried to sacrifice TRULY innocent people to boost his career. Imagine what a sleaze like him could do to a person who actually WAS guilty in the eyes of the law.
If I do get us out, then I also have an obligation to my family to STAY ALIVE to continue to provide for them.
Running BACK into a mall shooting like Trolley Square is NOT a good way to accomplish my obligation.
Of course, if the only way to safety for me and mine is literally over the shooter's dead body - then so be it.
I was sickened to hear from a cop that he knows brother officers that WILL NOT carry off-duty, and even the Trolley Square shooting would probably not change that. Cop or civvie, in this day and age there's no excuse to live as a sheep and think that if you ignore it, nothing bad will ever happen to you.
This is all armchair quarterbacking, of course. At best I can say that I PLAN not to take any undue risks as long as me and my family are safe.
The way I see it, my number one prioroty - legally AND ethically - is to GET MY FAMILY TO SAFETY. There is no "castle doctrine" where I live. If I escape a killer, then go back and re-engage him, I could be made into mince-meat in civil and criminal court. I pointed out that Mike Nifong is a DA in my state, and he tried to sacrifice TRULY innocent people to boost his career. Imagine what a sleaze like him could do to a person who actually WAS guilty in the eyes of the law.
If I do get us out, then I also have an obligation to my family to STAY ALIVE to continue to provide for them.
Running BACK into a mall shooting like Trolley Square is NOT a good way to accomplish my obligation.
Of course, if the only way to safety for me and mine is literally over the shooter's dead body - then so be it.
I was sickened to hear from a cop that he knows brother officers that WILL NOT carry off-duty, and even the Trolley Square shooting would probably not change that. Cop or civvie, in this day and age there's no excuse to live as a sheep and think that if you ignore it, nothing bad will ever happen to you.
This is all armchair quarterbacking, of course. At best I can say that I PLAN not to take any undue risks as long as me and my family are safe.
Defence of others
I understand the position that you take when you have your family around you, however I don't have that to deal with. If I did, your approach is entirely correct. It seems that the situation comes down to the DA being our enemy, more so than the Bad Guy. I don't have a answer for this, except at the voting booth. However, when the whistle blew, we ( all of us ) went over the wall. Some didn't come back,so my time has come and gone. No DA will make me so afraid of him to the point of inaction, but I don't have as much to lose as most of you guys. Hopefully none of us will have to see who is right or wrong. Protect your family first, if called I'll have to answer. O C
I understand the position that you take when you have your family around you, however I don't have that to deal with. If I did, your approach is entirely correct. It seems that the situation comes down to the DA being our enemy, more so than the Bad Guy. I don't have a answer for this, except at the voting booth. However, when the whistle blew, we ( all of us ) went over the wall. Some didn't come back,so my time has come and gone. No DA will make me so afraid of him to the point of inaction, but I don't have as much to lose as most of you guys. Hopefully none of us will have to see who is right or wrong. Protect your family first, if called I'll have to answer. O C
ID_shooting
Member
Most of it for me depends on other variables. If my family is with me, I am getting them out. However, in the case of the guy working in the IIRC video store watching the shooter load, I probably would have had lead heading in the shooters direction before the shooter could finish loading.
I have no troubles about stepping up and protecting the innocent but my family does come first and getting them out of the mall would have been tops priority, of no other resistance to the shooter had shown up by then, I would have gone back in. At least in my state, protecting others is vaild defence in court.
I have no troubles about stepping up and protecting the innocent but my family does come first and getting them out of the mall would have been tops priority, of no other resistance to the shooter had shown up by then, I would have gone back in. At least in my state, protecting others is vaild defence in court.
Elmer Fudd
Member
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- 118
Green Lantern, the quotes in your sig are great (and scary).
XavierBreath
Member
There are some good thoughts here.
Every situation is unique, and a person cannot really predict how they will react in a life or death encounter. We can try to instill our beliefs and training within ourselves for when that time comes, but the human psyche is an entirely unpredictable thing under the stress of imminent death.
Those who believe they will retreat for cover may say "enough is enough" when they see children gunned down, and those who claim they will defend people in need may run away instead.
Every situation is unique, and a person cannot really predict how they will react in a life or death encounter. We can try to instill our beliefs and training within ourselves for when that time comes, but the human psyche is an entirely unpredictable thing under the stress of imminent death.
Those who believe they will retreat for cover may say "enough is enough" when they see children gunned down, and those who claim they will defend people in need may run away instead.
TallPine
Member
After thinking about this a while, my first priority would be to protect my family and myself, and then anyone else in the immediate area. First move should be for everyone to seek hard cover and/or egress the area, depending on the specific location and circumstances.
I would not go and seek out somebody like that, but if I am hunkered down in the canned goods aisle and I can see somebody walking around shooting at everybody, I would try to make a shot from behind cover if possible. I could not just watch people being killed if I had the means and opportunity to do something about it.
(of course, first I would need to find a phone booth or restroom where I could change into my cape and tights )
I would not go and seek out somebody like that, but if I am hunkered down in the canned goods aisle and I can see somebody walking around shooting at everybody, I would try to make a shot from behind cover if possible. I could not just watch people being killed if I had the means and opportunity to do something about it.
(of course, first I would need to find a phone booth or restroom where I could change into my cape and tights
)Defence of others
All of you have very good points and who knows exactly how each of us will react. In the military it's a whole different game. At the mall, who knows. But I wouldn't like to come up against any of you when the SHTF. Hope I never have to take the test, and if I do, hope I pass. O C
All of you have very good points and who knows exactly how each of us will react. In the military it's a whole different game. At the mall, who knows. But I wouldn't like to come up against any of you when the SHTF. Hope I never have to take the test, and if I do, hope I pass. O C
Let's drop the references to sheeple and sheep. Words like that just add emotion into a subject that is better discussed calmly and rationally.
Jeff
Jeff
redneckrepairs
Member
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- 1,117
IMHO the entire topic is too broad to even make a rational post. Too much depends on circumstance . My basic rule is i carry to protect myself and my family. That being said I cannot nor have i eaver walked away from anyone abusing a child in any manner . For me at least there are no hard and fast rules other than cover is my friend, and concealment is its couson.
expvideo
Member
Honestly, F the legal battle. I would protect strangers. It's the right thing to do, no matter what the DA says. If god has a problem with it, that's another story, but anybody else is gonna have to take a number. I'm not a wannabe cop, or anything, and I have no dillusions of fighting crime like batman. But I'll do the right thing.
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HeedJSU
Member
I agree with TallPine. If I'm on the far side of the mall and I hear gunshots, I'm grabbing my loved ones and head for the door. Spank my ass, paint me pink, and call me Sally if you wish. HOWEVER. If I'm in the same store with some crazy SOB, and I see him chamber a round in a shotty while looking in my general direction, I feel, in danger, AND I HAVE A CLEAR SHOT, He's gonna have to pull some matrix stuff and dodge a .357 Hydra-shok. It's not worth killing an innocent person to try to defend myself. If I may hit someone else, I'll run my best bob-'n-weave pattern for the closest door. Here's to never being faced with that situation though.
Justin
Justin
Carl N. Brown
Member
Off topic:
"Never brag about something before you do it".--Old Norse saying
It is usually better to ask afterwards, "Did you see me
do that?" and to say beforehand "Watch me do this!"
The minute you brag, the gremlins will trip you up.
On topic:
Any Tennesse lawyers (real) familiar with the Good
Samaritan law, and can you explain it?
If you intervene in a shooting situation with your own gun,
remember cops are going to be responding to "man with a
gun" and "shots fired."
"Never brag about something before you do it".--Old Norse saying
It is usually better to ask afterwards, "Did you see me
do that?" and to say beforehand "Watch me do this!"
The minute you brag, the gremlins will trip you up.
On topic:
Any Tennesse lawyers (real) familiar with the Good
Samaritan law, and can you explain it?
If you intervene in a shooting situation with your own gun,
remember cops are going to be responding to "man with a
gun" and "shots fired."
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