My first armed run in with the police

[westy39]

OP, well after over 22 years as a street cop in 100,000 plus city in central Montana, I always thought there was a gun in every vehicle I stopped. It sounds to me like you were not too stressed out over the stop. This is a good thing because street cops are trained to pick up on certain signals that a driver with something to hide will make unknowingly. I too don't understand why he had you get out of the car. I did instruct one person to place the weapon on the car roof and then stay seated with his hands out the window. I also made it a habit to approach all vehicles from the passenger side. This works out well as most people still watch TV and expect the cop to approach the driver's window, not me. I guess in Montana if someone has a concealed weapon permit I don't get too concerned considering what it takes to get one here in Montana. I'm retired from the PD and I can say without any hesitation I never did arrest anyone with a concealed weapons permit for any violation that I am aware of. Hey they don't just give those things away. My advise to all is when stopped relax, turn on your dome light, and sit still with your hands on the wheel or out the window clearly visible and empty. I will also stress that "SIR" isn't the most common word a cop is addressed with and it was a nice change when I heard it. I tended to just write warnings for a headlight violation it was just too minor to take the time to write a cite. Now as the backup officer, well unless otherwise instructed my backups usually stayed in their cars in case things went south or there was a runner. I know so many people to harass and so little time in a 10 hour shift, but one does what one can. Be safe all just my thoughts from the Big Sky Country.

 

[ravenn]

Dude, you need to move out of Christian County!

 

[BSA1]

I live in Kansas and I would not have complied with the Officer's request to get out of my vehicle unless he tells me he suspects that I am D.U.I. or he has probable cause to search my vehicle.

Sorry for being detained and forced to stand outside in the cold weather is b.s. If he was so concerned about his safety why didn't he pat search you?

 

[Nite Ryder]

As a former state police trooper, I try to be courteous when stopped by a law enforcement officer. I don't over use the word 'sir' if I use it at all, but I know that my attitude affects the officer's attitude, so I'm polite. I have my papers ready to hand them over when asked, I don't mention my concealed handgun unless I'm asked. Before the officer gets to my car the doors are locked and the drivers side window is rolled about half way down to make talking to him possible. The last time I was asked to step out of my vehicle I told the officer I wouldn't unless I was under arrest, he wasn't happy about my refusal but he didn't do anything about it either. If I were to get out of my vehicle, I would make sure the windows were up and I would lock the door behind me, so he couldn't enter the vehicle. I believe in answering questions that pertain to my driving and my vehicle, but where I'm going and where I've been is not his business, and I'm not going to discuss any of that with him. I always take notes of the stop as soon as I get a chance. I record his name, the license number on his car, the weather conditions, anything that I might want to remember that may help me if and when I go to court. When I leave town on a trip, I take a small recorder with me and flick the record button if I'm stopped. Being able to prove what happened and what was said is important if you go to court. I will never lie to an officer, but I can refuse to answer his questions if I want to. The less you say when talking to a cop the better off you are.

 

[Choctaw]

I live in Kansas and I would not have complied with the Officer's request to get out of my vehicle unless he tells me he suspects that I am D.U.I. or he has probable cause to search my vehicle.

Sorry for being detained and forced to stand outside in the cold weather is b.s. If he was so concerned about his safety why didn't he pat search you?

Really? What exactly would you have done? lol

 

[RustyShackelford]

UPDATE; Former NFL player Chris Johnson arrest...

Just wanted to add this to the topic, since I brought it up before, former NY Jets football star: Chris Johnson had his misdemeanor gun charge cut by the Florida State Atty's Office in Orlando FL. Johnson, who's from FL was arrested in downtown Orlando after a traffic stop(failure to stop at a posted stop sign).
He has a valid Florida W/CCW license and had no active warrants or pending cases.
The Orlando police officer wrote in the police report that they saw a firearm on the vehicle floorboard immediately, as they went along side Johnson's "white vehicle"(make & model not documented, ).

No police body camera or IRIS street camera images or DV(digital video) was released of this traffic stop/arrest by either the PD or Florida State Atty's Office.

Johnson was also shot in a recent "drive by" event near downtown Orlando too. He reportedly is not assisting the Orange County FL sheriff's office either. The driver of vehicle Johnson was shot in was murdered. The unknown shooter is still at large, .

 

[Jackal]

I learned the hard way not to carry my wallet and handgun in the overlapping pockets of my motorcycle jacket.... That was a long, tedious stop for having a dirty license plate...

 

[Pyzon]

In my home state of Ohio, it is must inform.

And, your Ohio CCW is linked to your vehicle registration, so typically a LEO knows your are licensed, but informing is still the law.

And I come down on the side of concealed on person or in the vehicle will get far less attention from a LEO than a visible firearm within reach or otherwise.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Notices, weapons....

I like the concept/SOP for state resident CCW/concealed licenses being linked to DMV/vehicle reg.
It's a good policy and allows the LEP(law enforcement professional) to have a general idea of who may be in the vehicle or what to expect.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I like the concept/SOP for state resident CCW/concealed licenses being linked to DMV/vehicle reg.
It's a good policy and allows the LEP(law enforcement professional) to have a general idea of who may be in the vehicle or what to expect.

Out of curiosity... Rusty...

If I get pulled over and the LEO sees my CCW linked to my DL... How is his expectation any different? Especially since the stats show those that go through the process of getting a CCW tend to be more law abiding than those that don't. Are you claiming the officer is "safer" knowing about the Commander in my purse when I have no particular intention of pulling it in the first place?

 

[RustyShackelford]

A general idea....

In response to the posted question;
If a sworn LE officer/LEP knows that a loaded firearm may be in the motor vehicle they can be prepared to deal with it if things go sideways.

The CCW holder/gun owner may not be in the vehicle or the vehicle might be stolen/GTA/used without permission & not reported yet.

Officers & troopers should be polite & professional when dealing with any motorists.
For context, Id review the car/police DV clips online of incidents in Citrus County FL(sworn sheriff's deputy/CCW holder in a motor home), Victoria TX officer & older guy with dealer plates, Dayton Ohio police officer/cab driver(armed-CCW license holder), SC state trooper/traffic stop with driver ends in shooting.
The SC State Trooper(who in the 2000s was named Trooper of the Year) was fired for his conduct in the stop.
The young Victoria Texas cop was also fired for his actions.

 

[Ken41]

Kentucky Stop

In 2000, I was on a trip from SW PA to Kentucky to pick up a 80' ham radio tower (10 8' sections) I was driving a white Isuzu Trooper, with a trailer. We have Tibetan Mastiffs, and I took one, Gobie, a yellow male. He loved to ride in the car. Stayed at a motel for the night. Ground floor, and Gobie was guarding all night. He never barked, but with all the noise in the parking lot, he was watching the door most of the night, with along with low growls.

Next morning we were on our way, and picked up the tower sections and started home. Some where on the Daniel Boone Parkway, I passed a slow moving car. The road was three lane, with a passing center lane. Came up to a stop light, and noticed a police car behind me. Maybe a quarter mile down the road, the red lights came on, and I pulled off the road and turned on the four ways.

When the officer came up to the drivers side window, Gobie was in the protection mode. I gave the officer my DL and insurance card, but could not find the owners card. The officer asked if I knew why I had been stopped, and I replied that I did not. He said that I had passed in a no passing zone. He then asked if he could search the car. I said no problem, I'll get the dog out on the passenger side.

Now when I am driving and stopping at McDonald's or other fast food stops, nothing gets thrown out of the car, it gets thrown in the back seat area. Between me and Gobie there was a day and a half's worth of trash back there. The officer started to look in the passenger side rear door, and I said to him, that there may be loose brass or rounds floating around. He then asked if there were any firearms, and I answered no, that I used this vehicle for going to that range. He took one more look in the back seat area, and said that you are okay. He then told me that this road was a high drug traffic area, and that the vehicle, which had factory tinted windows, and a big dog fit the profile. We talked for a while and he finally said have a safe trip, and left.

 

[Mike J]

I have been pulled over many times with a firearm on me. It has never been an issue & I have never said a word to the officer about it. If I had to reach next to it or I thought the officer would see it I would say something but Georgia does not require me to inform & I see no point in stressing the officer out unnecessarily.

I did tell an Indiana state trooper I had a gun on me once. I was laid off from my regular profession & was driving to Michigan to pick up a boat for my brother-in-law. The truck broke down in Muncie (sp?), Indiana. I was standing on the side of the road next to the broken down truck & empty trailer. The trooper approached me asking if I needed help. I let him know I had a gun as I didn't want him to freak out if it printed & he saw it. He was fine & mentioned that Indiana wasn't a duty to inform state & that my Georgia Weapons License was good there before offering to call a tow truck.

 

[Reinz]

Ken- love the pic of your dog. Reminds me of past Malamutes and a Husky that would rather sleep out in the snow than in a nice warm house.

 

[eastbank]

a long time ago i was comming home from a friends house late at night in the country and was stopped by a game warden, who ask if he could search my car for a spot light along with a firearm as they had a report of jack lighting that night. i said sure and and opened the trunk,no light or firearm, then he ask to look in the glove box and i said ok. my pistol(ccp) was in there, but no light and he said ok and i was on my way. about 4 miles later i was stopped by a state cop and was informed to get out of the car slowly and keep my hands up and he opened up the glove box and saw my pistol and i informed him that i had a ccp. he then said to show him the ccp and when he looked at it he said sorry but that he got a call from the warden telling him about the pistol in my glove box. i learned two things that night, don,t let any one search my car with out a warrent and if they do inform them i have a ccp before it begins. eastbank.

 

[thewillweeks]

Really? What exactly would you have done? lol

He gave me the option to stay in the vehicle, it just meant waiting 10 minutes or more extra because he couldn't leave me (dept policy) with the firearm without back up on site. I wanted to move along quicker so I complied of my own desire to leave sooner haha.

 

[BSA1]

thewillweeks,

That is just plain b.s.

Once the officer had concluded his business by giving you a warning (or a ticket) he had no further reason to detain you. The handgun in your vehicle was immaterial as it was legal for you to have it.

So the Officer who was claiming it was for HIS safety did not search you for weapons and detained a armed citizen who could have become more and more irate about being detained after a traffic stop. And you say he gave you the option of waiting in your car with your loaded handgun!!!

Legal? Hardly. Officer safety? Give me a break. Letting citizen have access to a loaded firearm? Common sense? Where?

We have far, far different expectations of the standards of the LEO's in our community. Anyway you did good.

 

[McAngus]

Is it just me or is it weird that the general population has to think about this? I mean you can state that an officer has a difficult job and doesn't know who he or she is confronting every time. But it is like we are conditioned to be guilt tripped for legally carrying a firearm.

 

[COLOSHOOTR]

Remember, police officers are your employees, not your superiors. Be respectful and minimal as possible.

I pay the same taxes everyone else does so I guess in a way I'm self employed.... It's my community too and I choose to go out and serve my community not to be Joe Citizen's employee or servant but because if in my career I can save one persons life or even just have made a positive difference in one persons life I feel I've done something worthwhile. The I pay your salary or the you work for me thing really gets old and is downright rude! I'm not your employee or your superior but instead am just a fellow community member with arrest authority.

OP you did a good job and really did not do anything wrong.... Well one thing maybe. The 5 MPH under probably attracted the attention to you. I work for a large agency with a lot of gang and drug activity. In a given shift will let a tons of vehicles with broken headlights drive right by and pay them no mind, or even just signal them at the next red light and let them know the light is out then wish them a good night. Now when I see a car with a headlight out that seems to be really worried about me doing 5 under constantly checking in their mirror I become curious.... Are they going to buy drugs, looking for girls (or guys), about to do a drive by or do they just spend too much time with liberals and worry about us mean cops that carry those scary guns? Try not to worry too much as we pick up on that sort of thing. The people without a care in the world as they drive by or along side us don't catch our attention in most cases.

I personally worry less when one tells me that they have a firearm or CCW. Most CCW holders are good people and have clean background history to get the CCW in the first place. I like when good people have guns and if more good people had guns in places like a certain movie theater in Aurora things could be different. I've never once had a bad guy tell me that they have a gun in the car yet just last week the one that told me he didn't have anything did and it was also stolen and connected to a shooting. The ones who do tell me and are respectful never are a problem and will probably be on their way faster and with a warning so I can go look for some of the bad people instead. I personally hate traffic enforcement and only ever use it to combat gang and drug crime in my city.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Ah yes, my brother in law makes the argument that he works for the state, not the citizen. Therefore he is the overseer of the citizen, not the employee.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Ah yes, my brother in law makes the argument that he works for the state, not the citizen. Therefore he is the overseer of the citizen, not the employee.

Which is a very good point. But your BIL needs to be cognizant that if he's is perceived as lording it over his fellow citizens (notice that the police are considered civilians) and holding himself and his brothers in arms to a different standard from which they hold those they 'oversee,' he may soon find himself employed by a state that keeps him on an extremely short leash.

 

[Officers'Wife]

Which is a very good point. But your BIL needs to be cognizant that if he's is perceived as lording it over his fellow citizens (notice that the police are considered civilians) and holding himself and his brothers in arms to a different standard from which they hold those they 'oversee,' he may soon find himself employed by a state that keeps him on an extremely short leash.

Keep in mind that my sister also has a bad habit of "running into doors" and my BIL is not allowed in brother's, dad's or my house while having a firearm on his person because of careless handling. That post was pure sarcasm base on BIL's character. He may be a very good servant of the state but he is at best a marginal member of the family.

 

[TimSr]

If I get pulled over and the LEO sees my CCW linked to my DL... How is his expectation any different? Especially since the stats show those that go through the process of getting a CCW tend to be more law abiding than those that don't. Are you claiming the officer is "safer" knowing about the Commander in my purse when I have no particular intention of pulling it in the first place?

I also live in Ohio. As the officer in our CCW classes explained it, when they run your plate, and learn you are a CCW holder, they are already feeling relieved because they know you have already passed a background check. He said once he can verify that the driver is the CCW holder that owns the car, he can feel much better about his own safety. In Ohio you are required to declare. He said he will even throw hints if the driver has forgotten to declare, such as "do you need to inform me of anything you might be carrying?"


I also have to add that there is no possible benefit to your ever allowing a vehicle search. Ever! Even if you believe you are doing nothing wrong, it might be possible that you are violating some harmelss technicality. Just think of the guy who allowed a search and volunteered that he was carrying an artifact flintlock pistol. If you do not consent to a search, and he searches anyways without probable cause, even if he finds some inadvertant violation, it is not admissable.

Somehow people have this idea that if the cooperate with unreasonable and unlawful requests, that they will get better treatment. "Anything you say can and WILL be used against you." I will be polite, cooperative, and respectful, and answer all appropraite questions, but any request for me to submit to anything not required by law I would consider him to be out of line for asking, and not me for declining.

 

[12many]

Ah yes, my brother in law makes the argument that he works for the state, not the citizen. Therefore he is the overseer of the citizen, not the employee.

That is pretty common view of government employees and politicians. We have some friends who work for a federal agency that over sees parks and national wildlife refuges. It is clear from talking to them that they see it at their land (not the publics) and that they control who or what can use the land. It is a very "Us against Them" mentality. Part of it is human nature. I completely get why police feel this way given their clientel, but for the non-criminal, tax payer who does pay their salary, it does rub the wrong way. That is why typically only government jobs allow you to provide customer service or treat people in a way that would result in firing/going out of business in most all other businesses.

OP, seems like you handled it well. But, if you are not doing anything illegal, it seems unfair that you would have to wait for back up, which can talk a LONG time sometimes, just for having a firearm, which last I checked, was not illegal. If you had done something that was illegal, then yes, you caused the wait for back up, but just having a gun is not something that should cause you to be treated differently.

I agree with the earlier post, guns now have this 'special status' that causes different treatment when it is not illegal or even a big deal.

 

[ChefJeff1]

The first and immediate words from my mouth are...with my hands on the wheel, "officer, I'm concealing a loaded firearm on my right hip". Any other weapons are immediately disclosed. It's just professional courtesy and cops don't like surprises.