My future wife outed me in a crowd

[JohnKSa]

Unfortunately, stress often does promote undesireable reactions

No argument there--NONE at all. The undesirable reaction would be blurting something out loudly in public. That could easily be a normal reaction to unusual stress.

However WHAT she said is not a product of the stress--WHAT she said was in there already--just waiting for an excuse to come out. Clearly, it's not possible for stress to suddenly create in her an antipathy toward his carry behavior in the instant that she discovered he was carrying. WHAT she said was a product of internal issues unrelated to the stress of the moment that caused them to be suddenly revealed.

Whether she consciously set out to humiliate or intimidate him is, perhaps questionable--it's very difficult to say what a person's motives are with 100% accuracy. However, the fact that she did and then repeated it after a relatively brief interval is strong evidence that this tactic is a pattern of behavior. And that's very worrisome. That's not a constructive tactic to employ in a relationship. I'm willing to bet that if the original poster was truly honest with himself and us he would admit that either she or one of her parents frequently (or at least habitually) uses this approach.

I think it IS about guns. The first incident, well maybe we could write it off as surprise ... even though she certainly should have been smart/adult enough to hold the comment/question until later.

Agreed-- my comment was poorly stated. I should have said that while guns provided the focus of the disagreement this time, the tactic she used was more disturbing than her apparent issues with guns.

And, finally, I have to agree with Mr. Ross. While his comments are more "big picture" than mine, his facts are indisputable. And, as 444 says, the courting days are the best (in terms of behavior) things typically go downhill from there.

 

[Mnemesyne]

On a side note....stop with the women bashing...not all of us females are out to steal every hard earned thing you own...As a matter of fact, I walked away with just what I entered into my past marriages with...Simply because my life was worth more then quibbling over possessions....Not all women are evil, manipulative twits....please don't lump us all into the same basket just because you managed to find a bad apple or two....

With only 5 weeks to your wedding, that talk had best come quickly...Simply put, people tend to change after you get married (some for the better and some for the worst) so things that raise red flags now, will most certainly raise red flags post marriage.....Just some food for thought....

Death in the family is no reason to out someone for carrying a firearm period...Like others have said, if she does it then, what will happen when your lives depend on that gun and she outs you and then (heaven forbid) something horrible happens as a result of her outing you again....


If you truly love each other, postponing the wedding a bit longer won't hurt either of you in the least.....

Mneme

 

[JohnKSa]

I don't think anyone is really trying to woman bash--I'm certainly not.

I'd give the same advice to a woman if she posted this about HER fiancee.

The reality of who typically "wins" (I know, what a stupid word to use in the context of divorce) in divorces isn't debatable, but it is a statistic, not an absolute rule. That means that there are exceptions.

Furthermore, I think it's very rare for ANYONE, man or woman, to enter a relationship with the idea that they're going to use the situation to their financial benefit. Unfortunately it often turns into something like that over time, and when it does, the majority of the time it's the woman who comes out with more than she went in with... Again, that's not an absolute rule nor is it a commentary on women in general.

 

[444]

As was mentioned, it isn't women bashing to speak the truth:
Every decision you make requires a risk vs. reward accessment. If the risks are large, your tendency is to play it safe and not take on that risk. However, if the risk is low and the reward is good, this takes a whole lot less thought. This is the situation MOST women are in with today's court system. If they decide they are not happy (for whatever reason), they have the option to get a divorce. The risk is very small: losing her husband: if she is at this point anyway, this isn't going to be a big loss to her. The reward however is most likely everything her husband owns and a portion of his future earnings as well as a piece of his pension. If she was a house wife, he pays for her training/education to get a job. While she is being educated, he pays her keep. She usually gets to keep the kids and he pays for that also. He pays for the health insurance, her car and basically anything she wants. It is a very rare man who manages better than that in a divorce. Some manage far worse. For example, at any time, the woman can call the police and say he hit her and he will be out of the house immediately in handcuffs, and he will probably lose his right to own a gun. This usually also means that his guns are confiscated. Of course you can spend 10k or more on an attorney to fight it.


Or, you can just not get married and eliminate the whole senario.

 

[Rockrivr1]

To be honest I started this thread as a way to blow off some steam and to see what some of you thought about this situation. I am surprised at the amount of responses and I appreciate all the different advise given. It's given me a lot to think about.

 

[TonkinTwentyMil]

If you do decide to marry her...

...over the strong guidance to the contrary expressed here...

Then, at least take these two steps:

1. Get a PRE-NUPTIAL AGREEMENT drafted by a good lawyer that specifically spells out your position on guns, self-defense/carry issues, etc., and wherein she specifically agrees (a) to support you 100% in this area, (b) in absolute confidence, (c) and will NEVER disclose your firearm ownership to any lawyer/judge/LEO in the event of a hot domestic dispute, and (d) waives ANY claim to any of your guns in the event of a divorce/property settlement. Yeah, I know this has some enforceability issues, but IF she balks at this "test," then she flunks -- and that's the ballgame.

2. PROMISE US grouchy old unromantic High Roaders that you'll report back here to us within the next 3 years... if you're kicking your own ass because "we toldja" (i.e., on your way to divorce court... and losing your guns).

Life is short, and then you die... happy. Or, unhappy. Your choice.

 

[Firehand]

You need to have a sit-down with her, dead serious, about this. It's possible she was just upset because of the general situation, but maybe not.

I did a post on my site once the subject of which was "do not expect someone to change; on rare occasions or for special reason someone may, but generally it won't happen". You need to make sure that this was not an indication of her actions in the future. If it is, you've got a real problem, and a decision to make.

And telling yourself "It'll get better later" is NOT a good idea. I thought that about a problem with my ex-wife, which is why she's my ex.

 

[TimboKhan]

Dump her.

 

[DagoRed]

Personally I wouldnt think of carrying a gun into a funeral, concealed or not. I can't help think that unless you live in a very crime ridden neighborhood, doing that speaks to paranoia or insecurities.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in CCW and own many weapons, but really, seems out of place there.

Maybe that is just me.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Personally I wouldnt think of carrying a gun into a funeral, concealed or not. I can't help think that unless you live in a very crime ridden neighborhood, doing that speaks to paranoia or insecurities.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in CCW and own many weapons, but really, seems out of place there.

Maybe that is just me.

Do you not wear a seat belt when driving in a funeral procession?

 

[444]

I agree.
There are places that are totally immue to violent crime and there is no need to be able to defend yourself there.
You are also granted safe passage to and from these completely safe locations. If you need to stop at the store, or get gas or anything on the way to and from these completely safe places, you are also immue from violent crime. This includes all incidents of road rage directed toward anyone going to, or coming from a "safe place".
It's the rules. All the bad guys know and follow these rules religiously.

By the same token, carriers of concealed weapons know exactly when and where they are going to need them. They know when the need to carry and when they don't because they are aware of the same rules as the bad guys (see above). They know there are "safe neighborhoods", as well as the locations that are completely safe (see above). They also know that if they need to defend themselves or their families exactly what the senario is going to be and they don't need to practice anything else.

 

[444]

Double Tap

 

[AStone]

444, I'm snickering pretty hard here...

 

[JohnKSa]

DagoRed,

Could you please post a list of all the places that you think would make me paranoid if I carried in them?

Also, if you don't mind, could you please post a sentence or so with each location on the list explaining why criminals would not consider committing violent crimes in these locations?

THANKS!

John

 

[TonkinTwentyMil]

Personally I wouldnt think of carrying a gun into a funeral, concealed or not. I can't help think that unless you live in a very crime ridden neighborhood, doing that speaks to paranoia or insecurities.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in CCW and own many weapons, but really, seems out of place there.

Maybe that is just me.

-----------------------------------

Okay, now children. Let's all join hands and sing...

"Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya...

 

[AStone]

By the way, DagoRed, welcome to THR.

We're a pretty routy, if intelligent bunch here, who sometimes even agree with each other. (But that's mostly over issues of which 12 ga shot is best for {choose one or more: ducks, squirrels, turkey, home defense, TEOTWAWKI...} or which 9 mm loads are best for SHTF events (see Paris, below).

Most of us would recommend starting in one of the gun forums with a question or two before venturing into such forums as "social situations" or "legal & political" with a strong opinion.

As you can see, newbies can get fried pretty quickly. (Caveat: be very careful with upstart retorts; the moderators here put up with very little crap; member ban is a real possibility.)

So, the rule here is, newbies buy the drinks, not to mention sometimes, as in your case, a box of ammo for all.

I'll take a box of 9mm 125 Golden Saber JHP, please.

Seems champagne is in order in honor of a potentially postponed wedding & the French riots.

I'll take a 1967 Modone Cadet creme de la Eiffel, extra dry.

OK, I totally made that up. Last champaign I drank was at my own wedding. Marriage lasted 4 years. Somehow, we didn't discuss the issue of kids. She wanted them, I didn't. End of story. Hey, is there a parallel here over guns? Rhetorical question, of course. Everyone discusses the issue of guns before marriage, right?

Right?

Guys? Anybody? Right????

 

[BluesBear]

Well I figured out long ago that if I didn't produce any children I'd actually have money to afford guns & musical instruments. As well as the time to use and enjoy each.

 

[Meta4]

Let's keep this in perspective. Your fiancée was under emotional distress because she was sitting at a funeral for her father who died unexpectedly five weeks before her wedding.

If there is one thing I've found is nearly universal amongst girls and young women, it's that all of them have had some kind of mental picture of their fairytale fantasy wedding in mind since early childhood. Your fiancée's "fairytale" probably involved being escorted down the aisle by her father, who is laying in a casket a few feet away from her. He had the audacity to die a mere month before her wedding, thereby sending her lifelong "fairytale" dream into a headspin at the last possible moment.

Was her response wrong? Yeah. Absolutely. Talk to her about it. I'll be the first to admit that her response might be indicative of greater problems, but if this was an honest slip then treat it as such. Honestly, if you're five weeks away from your wedding and you're just now seeing these problems, you probably need to postpone the wedding anyway.

I realize I might be a bit "old school" when it comes to marriage, but I think the whole "Until death do you part" thing actually means something. If you're five weeks away from your marriage and you're reconsidering your commitment because of one slip (no matter how big), you're moving way too fast for your own good! As men, we have an obligation to our wives/fiancées/girlfriends to handle whatever we commit ourselves to. Marriage is certainly one of the biggest commitments that we've got.

You need to take some time out to examine your relationship with your fiancée. I'd recommend spending an hour or two reflecting on the past two years. You need to determine for yourself whether or not her reaction was a slip caused by grief and stress, or something much more fundamental. If it was just a slip, I'd recommend talking to her about it and moving on. I carry whenever I can and I'd be very disappointed if my SO outed me, but I guarantee I wouldn't terminate our relationship because of that simple act alone.

"Love" isn't a feeling, nor is it an emotion. Happiness is an emotion, as is sadness and anger, but love? That's a commitment. Love says, "I want to spend the rest of my life with you, come what may." Love says, "I've seen your faults, and I accept them." Love doesn't make you want to change your spouse, it makes you want to change your own life.

Do you really love your fiancée? The Bible says that "Love is longsuffering and slow to anger." If you really love her, you'll be patient with her. That's the true mark of a mature man.

This thread has offered some excellent advice and some patently bad advice, but the decision is ultimately yours to make. To the best of my knowledge, nobody on this forum knows your fiancée as intimately as you do. Whether this incident remains a molehill or is turned into a mountain is your decision. Choose wisely.

-James

 

[DagoRed]

I participate in numerous gun forums, this isnt the only one. Just stated my opinion. Cant say I have heard of many violent crimes at funerals, maybe it is more common where some of you live. I grew up sandwiched between the south side of Chicago and Gary Indiana. Dont remember too many gunfights at funerals there either. Witnessed shootings in my young days through my twenties, had friends involved in gun play. One of my best friends was a cop killed in the line of duty with a weapon. Several of my high school classmates died before reaching 20. But, unless someone is a gang banger, I doubt there is a lot of risk inside the funeral home excluding Aunt Edna wanting to kiss ya.

If I felt I needed to be feel safe in traffic going to or coming home from a funeral, I would keep the piece in the glove compartment during the funeral.

Time and place I feel. My opinion anyway, and while you might not agree, I guess I have a right to it just as you guys do yours. I suppose I just never felt threatened at a funeral. Just where do you guys live that funerals are such a high risk venture?

If you could help me understand, how many have had to defend themselves at any time from a threat of violent physical assault while burying a loved one? I guess I am just lucky so far.

dr

oh, btw, I did have a flat tire at a funeral once, but luckily didnt have to shoot anyone because of it.

 

[Strings]

hmmm... last funeral I was at before mom died was my aunt Juanita's in MO. During the lunch afterward, several of us were standing around, comparing what we were carrying. Seems most of the group was armed fairly well. Guess we're just paranoid, huh?

Oh... carried at mom's funeral, too. Maybe I'm overtrained, but I can NOT loose control while armed. Given that there were several members of the family that had me angry due to their fake shows of greif, the pistol at my side was a good idea (and actually kept them alive)...

To each their own. If you feel uncomfortable packing at a funeral, wedding, what have you, then don't. But don't disparage others who choose to...

 

[DagoRed]

My apologies to anyone who felt I dispared them, it really wasnt my intention. Just didnt understand the pyschological need to carry at a family members funeral.

 

[hso]

DagoRedm

Welcome.

If you agree that it can be appropriate to have the gun going to and from the funeral (just like anywher else), is it safer to have the gun on you and under your control once you get to the funeral or left in your car subject to theft?

For the newlywed,

You need to have a talk with the bride and verify that she doesn't have any feelings against you carrying in general. If you get through that gate then you have the opportunity to use 444's argument and that she is more precious to you than life itself and no one's going to send a RSVP invitation to an act of violence against her or your as yet unconceived children.

 

[DagoRed]

DagoRedm

Welcome.

If you agree that it can be appropriate to have the gun going to and from the funeral (just like anywher else), is it safer to have the gun on you and under your control once you get to the funeral or left in your car subject to theft?

Depending on where you live, you might feel the need to carry in the vehicle. But, following that arguement, you would need to carry to and into church, the hospital, the airport, etc. Some times it might be necessary to risk life and limb and leave it home, rather than carry a weapon into inappropriate places. At least something to consider.

 

[JohnKSa]

Just where do you guys live that funerals are such a high risk venture?

I'm not saying funerals are high risk, but I carry everywhere. Because crime can happen everywhere. We had a spate of church robberies in my area some time ago--I figure anyone who'd commit an armed robbery at a church wouldn't see a funeral as sacrosanct.

I'm curious to know what evidence you used to determine that criminals won't commit violent crimes at a funeral.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

I realize I might be a bit "old school" when it comes to marriage, but I think the whole "Until death do you part" thing actually means something. If you're five weeks away from your marriage and you're reconsidering your commitment because of one slip (no matter how big), you're moving way too fast for your own good! As men, we have an obligation to our wives/fiancées/girlfriends to handle whatever we commit ourselves to. Marriage is certainly one of the biggest commitments that we've got.

Ummm ... not one but two slips, on successive days. Both slips indicative of less than whole-hearted support for and understanding of concealed carry, self-defense, and GUNS in general.