My next purchase - Beretta or CZ?

Which one do I buy?

  • Beretta 92G

    Votes: 43 38.7%
  • CZ P-09

    Votes: 68 61.3%

  • Total voters
    111
  • Poll closed .
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You do realize a Glock is essentially an uncocked gun until you pull the trigger? That travel in the trigger is also finishing cocking the gun to fire it. Until then, it's a paperweight.
Not from my recollection or understanding and I have worked on a few in my time.The firing pin spring is loaded and pulling the trigger goes through a few safety mechanisms (trigger safety,firing pin block, etc.) before it moves the sear and releases the firing pin. This form of striker mechanism is common in many of the striker fired pistols today. It does move it minimally, however the stored energy from the firing pin spring is plenty to fire the pistol if the other safety mechanisms were in the fire stage. There is a mechanism that finished cocking or cocks by pulling the trigger (almost like DA but in striker fire) and they are in double strike capabilities like in Taurus and other striker fired pistols.
 
You do realize a Glock is essentially an uncocked gun until you pull the trigger? That travel in the trigger is also finishing cocking the gun to fire it. Until then, it's a paperweight.

Wreck-n-Crew said:
Not from my recollection or understanding and I have worked on a few in my time.The firing pin spring is loaded and pulling the trigger goes through a few safety mechanisms (trigger safety,firing pin block, etc.) before it moves the sear and releases the firing pin. This form of striker mechanism is common in many of the striker fired pistols today. It does move it minimally, however the stored energy from the firing pin spring is plenty to fire the pistol if the other safety mechanisms were in the fire stage. There is a mechanism that finished cocking or cocks by pulling the trigger (almost like DA but in striker fire) and they are in double strike capabilities like in Taurus and other striker fired pistols.

The ONLY time a Glock is uncocked is when it's been dry-fired. The minute the slide moves a short distance, after firing a round, the striker spring is partially tensioned/"cocked" by the slide's movement. You can argue it's not cocked, but I'd argue its not UNCOCKED. Actually, it's neither. Wreck-n-Crew got it wrong, too: the slide movement that pretensions the striker provides maybe 70% of the required spring compression, while trigger movement supplies the rest. Trigger movement also deactivates the firing pin block and releases the striker.

With a Glock, if the slide doesn't move to pretension the striker - maybe less than 1/2" of movement is required is required -- the gun won't fire. There are a number of videos on YouTube demonstrating how this works, showing how the striker spring is compressed by the slide and compressed more by trigger action. No sound, but good views and written explanations in this one: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9f4_1293059256

Some striker-fired guns are DAO, including some Walthers. With these gun's trigger movement does all the work. Others, like the Springfield XD, have a fully-tensioned striker spring, and the trigger simply releases the striker (and adds nothing to the spring compression process -- these are true SA guns. Glock calls their guns SAFE ACTION; other call them Modified Double Action, but by past standards they're neither fish (DA) nor fowl (SA).


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The trigger on my CZ has a mild groove on the front of it. In order to Fire gun, you must apply pressure to the grooves hence it is a safety.
 
Pyzon said:
I have to admit I liked it better 30 years ago when nobody had heard the name CZ.

Fine pistols could be had for $200 new.

The cat is fully out of the bag these days.

It is out of the bag, so to speak, but it's not the cat's fault.

If you use the CPI Inflation calculator you'll find that inflation is a big part of the problem. What could be bought for $200 in 1984 now costs $457.00!! The dollar doesn't buy as much. I'm actually impressed that gun prices haven't gone a lot higher...

Here's a link to the site -- which uses actually historic info for the inflation calculations. http://146.142.4.24/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl
 
My biggest gripe with the Beretta (92/PX4) is the safety/decock levers. I'm not crazy about the lever CZ used on their D models, but at least its a little more natural..at least for me.

I was holding a new 92 compact Inox the other day and really liked it. If only they made one without the stupid rail..:banghead:
 
Neither would be my first choice, but if someone issued me a Beretta as my duty gun I'd use it in complete confidence. There are other guns I just like better, but none are more proven than the Beretta.

I've not been terribly impressed with the CZ's I've owned. I think they can be a good choice for range use, especially for those who participate in the shooting sports. They would be quite a ways down my list for a personal defense gun. Especially at todays prices.
 
jrm40I said:
I've not been terribly impressed with the CZ's I've owned. I think they can be a good choice for range use, especially for those who participate in the shooting sports. They would be quite a ways down my list for a personal defense gun. Especially at todays prices.

I understand your dissatisfaction with the 75B guns; you've expressed it many times; you have what you feel are good reasons...

I would note, however, that the the P-07 and P-09 are variants of a totally different design, they are poly-framed guns; they use different mags,and use a different fire control assembly -- the Omega system which allows the user to switch from decocker to safety should he choose to do so, and are selling for quite a bit less than other CZs and competing guns. About the only things these new guns have in common with the older 75b-based guns is way they fit the hand: they do share the highly-regarded CZ ergonomics.

Until you've had a chance to shoot one -- I haven't even been able to shoot one thus far -- your critique of OTHER CZs may not apply to the P-07 or P-09.
 
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Well, I just ordered the Beretta 92G. I rented the old range beater Beretta again on sunday, and it was just so nice. The action was so slick. It was cutting one hole groups right at point of aim for me, with less effort than my Glock or 1911. And it digested 100 rounds of WWB with utter smoothness.

It would have been nice to test out a P-09 too, but I didn't want to order one "blind" and I know for a fact I'll enjoy my 92G. Also, I'll definitely be ordering more mags and the Beretta mags are like half as much as the CZ mags so this will actually be cheaper in the long run.

Thanks all,
Malakili
 
Another CZ vote here between the two. Simply a better gun.

I've owned both. Carried a Beretta M9 (model 92FS) on multiple combat deployments, qualified expert with it, etc. I've owned a shot the heck out of various CZ models (P07, Shadow, P01, 75 full and compact in various configurations, 82, 97, etc.).

The Beretta feels big, feels heavy, has anemic factory magazine capacity for its size (you can and should get larger aftermarket capacity mags), the slide mounted safety is all wrong (backwards and mounted on the slide - some report problems accidentally decocking the weapon during emergency clearing drills). The sights are tiny too, and would need replacing. I have big hands and to its credit it is a good feeling gun and fits my hands well. I do like it. But there are just much better guns available, especially for the price point.

The CZs are simply better guns. Better design, better inherent accuracy, frame mounted safety/decocker, better trigger, and greater capacity and lighter.

Aside from a barrel bushing issue with my 97 (irrelevant to the P09), I cannot think of a negative of the CZ lines. I will say that the sights on my P07 used a cheap paint that rubbed off, but that's an easy aftermarket fix and if I were to carry it I'd just replace any pistols factory sights with nite sites anyway for under $100. No brainer there with any factory gun.

For carry, I'd look at the P07.
 
Why are you limiting your CZ choices to the P-09. How about a SP-01 Shadow variant, or alloy framed PCR or P-01?
 
I've had a number of CZs (more than I can easily count) and a smaller number of Berettas (from the M9/92 clan, including a Vertec) and an Italian 96.

I've tried to like the Berettas, but just can't... I do like CZs, but they're not the only guns I shoot. I've not shot the new P-07 or P-09, yet, but have heard mostly raves about them. It would appear that both Beretta and the P-09 are solid guns, and anyone having to choose between a CZ and Beretta should try both before deciding, or at least try handling each and trying the triggers. WHAT others recommend is meaningless if the guns don't fit YOU.

I always felt that the Beretta was too big for the job, but I continue to be puzzled by the fact that both the Beretta 92 and CZ 75B can use the same holster. (The original Fobus holster for the CZ-75B was the one they sold for the Beretta 92 with different package markings.)

I suspect part of the Beretta "BIGNESS" is more apparent than real -- sort of like some of the older Ruger semi-autos: they look big but when you measure them they seem in line with other service pistols. Ruger seems to have employed a different designer on the SR series of guns... :D
 
Well, I just ordered the Beretta 92G. I rented the old range beater Beretta again on sunday, and it was just so nice. The action was so slick. It was cutting one hole groups right at point of aim for me, with less effort than my Glock or 1911. And it digested 100 rounds of WWB with utter smoothness.

It would have been nice to test out a P-09 too, but I didn't want to order one "blind" and I know for a fact I'll enjoy my 92G. Also, I'll definitely be ordering more mags and the Beretta mags are like half as much as the CZ mags so this will actually be cheaper in the long run.

Thanks all,
Malakili

Congrats on the 92G! You chose the better gun between the two, and a terrific gun overall.
 
Well, I just ordered the Beretta 92G. I rented the old range beater Beretta again on sunday, and it was just so nice. The action was so slick. It was cutting one hole groups right at point of aim for me, with less effort than my Glock or 1911. And it digested 100 rounds of WWB with utter smoothness.

It would have been nice to test out a P-09 too, but I didn't want to order one "blind" and I know for a fact I'll enjoy my 92G. Also, I'll definitely be ordering more mags and the Beretta mags are like half as much as the CZ mags so this will actually be cheaper in the long run.

Thanks all,
Malakili
Great choice! I really like my 92FS, but I also added a Beretta D spring, Elite II hammer, and extended mag release. It has made the pistol even better for me. I wish it were a "G" though.

As far as mag prices go, you can buy Mec- Gar, CZ mags for less than the Beretta mags, and they are just as good as factory, so don't let mag prices sway you from buying any CZ.
 
My vote would be for a CZ 75D. I've owned a Beretta, my favorite shotgun by the way, while it was smooth as glass and never malfunctioned it just never felt right in my hands, as a result I could never shoot it as accurately as I'd hoped, just me I guess. On the other hand the CZ ergonomics are close to perfect for me and while not nearly as smooth shoots much tighter groups, some how it just doesn't feel as big and bulky.
 
Picking between pistols

I'd get the CZ.....but go with the P-07, high cap magazine but smaller for easier carry. I have a P-07 Duty and love it, grip fits like a glove, good price and accurate.......that's my take on your question.:cool:
 
Pilot said:
CZ mags for less than the Beretta mags, and they are just as good as factory, so don't let mag prices sway you from buying any CZ.

The P-07 and P-09 mags are not interchangeable with mags used in the 75B line -- and I'm not sure that Mec-Gar is making aftermarket mags for the P-07/P-09, yet. The Mec-Gar mags, may not be identical to the OEM mags used in the 75B-line of CZ, but they are functionally the same -- and a LOT cheaper.

In the case of the P-07 or P-09, however, you may be forced -- for a while at least -- to buy CZ factory mags (which probably ARE made by Mec-Gar.) :)

Folks keep mentioning 75B-based guns, and we have to keep in mind that THOSE models are what the OP is asking about... And like one of those who commented earlier, I think I'd go for the P-07 instead of the P-09; it's basically the same gun, just a bit smaller -- and I don't think the extra size of the P-09 buys you much you can't do without.
 
Fine pistols could be had for $200 new.

The cat is fully out of the bag these days.

For the curious, can you name a few "fine" pistols that can be had for $200 new? Your definition of "fine" may be different than mine.
 
Good luck on your purchase, seems you did your research, and chose what was best for you. More folks should do that before just buying a gun they saw in the magazine or on the shelf , in the gun store.
 
Pyzon said:
I have to admit I liked it better 30 years ago when nobody had heard the name CZ.

Fine pistols could be had for $200 new.

Inflation is a factor, to be sure, but the value of $200, converted to 2014 dollars is $454.67.

What was a "fine" weapon in 1984? The figures below are MSRP, so some of these guns probably sold for less...

I checked the Fjestad Blue Book for some examples:

A nickel/silver BHP sold for $525 new in the early-mid '80s. In today's dollars that same gun (if it was still being made) would be $1,195 -- with the increase due to inflation, alone.

A S&W 669 sold for about $525 in 1986-88, and in inflation-adjusted 2014 dollars, that would be $1,186.​

I continue to be surprised that so many good quality (if not fine) guns are available for under $800...
 
I have the 92FS and it is a nice full sized pistol. Good for HD and target shooting. I personally would not want to carry it around all day due to it's size. Mine is accurate and has been trouble free in the few years I have owned it.
 
If the CZ was another model, I would have voted for it, but picking between the '09 and any 92, no contest, IMHO, the Beretta wins by a mile. If it was a CZ SP01, it would be different.
 
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