My SD Shooting

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Perhaps my choice will switch back to a heavy load 00 buck as time passes. My current selection is based upon a mixture of poor performance (from the round that did connect) and an emotional response (fear from a dream). I realize that an emotional response is often the poorest reaction to any situation, and by all logical means I should probably be using a heavy load 00 buck, but my current selection is what keeps me from having nightmares about it and a lack of confidence in my selection.
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Hey man, your software is just as important as your hardware (if not more). If it keeps yours sound, keep doing it.

Thank you for sharing. I'm sure everyone has their own fantasy of what they would do if they were in your shoes, and make your decisions sound bad, but what really matters is that you won and they lost. It doesn't matter if you win by an inch, or a mile, all that matters is that you won.
 
Thanks for sharing how the stress and adrenaline foul things up. I read over and over how folks are telling you to do it differently. I'm sure you mentally and physically practice intent on good technique, but this clearly illustrates how adrenaline and stress can toss that all out the window.

Now, what do you do differently in your practice regimen after this event? If anything.

Thanks for sharing and providing honest disclosure of the event.
 
I had my first "draw down" after getting my carry permit with a pair of rottweilers that came around a Suburban at a packed campground in IN during a holiday weekend - right at dusk.

I was with four people including a 10-year-old blind girl who was closest to the charging rotties.

I had already made the decision to fire as soon as I had a sight picture, but fortunately, the dog's owner called them off in the nick of time.

They were less than 30 feet away and I had no illusions that I was going to stop two charging dogs and not get bit but that little girl didn't stand a prayer.

The owner was quite angry I was fixin' to shoot his dogs.

C'mon, buddy. Don't let aggressive dogs run freely in a busy campground!

John
 
Glad everything was okay! I had an Aus/German mix and it was a GREAT dog. Could you post a pic??
 
Just tossing something out in the performance area. Buckshot according to reports from our local animal control 00 sometimes even fails on sick racoons at 15 yds. As far as performance testing goes, waterfowlers have done several orders of magnitude of lethality testing that our LE folk have done. Generaly its found that even steel shot can be quite fatal on geese at 40 yards mostly in sizes TT--#2. Lead or high density shot is even more effective in those sizes. For the $0.02 of mine, the Mossberg sits with 2 3/4" 1 1/2oz of 2 shot. I will readily bet $0.25 that at 50" the wound channels will exceed 6" even after penetrating a layer of flight feathers and down---or even the feared down jacket. Most of my neighbors should be safe from overspray also. I guess what Im trying to say is that much of these specialized loads etc may not be what they are cracked up to be, and some of the mundane game loads may be more than adequate.
 
When I was young our neighbors had a dog that would attack the neighborhood children. My mom had to drive it away with a broom when it thought I was a chew toy. (I was like,... 4 or 5). When the first incidences happened my dad talked to the neighbors and asked them to please keep control of their dog. (we lived in a rural community and dogs were usually allowed to run loose) But the dog was allowed to roam and surprise surprise, it kept chewing on kids.
I still to this day remember watching my father sighting in on that dog with his Remington 721 and ending the problem.
 
That's still only half of what the FBI reccomends. I'd think birdshot would be more effective on racoons and geese, however, for self-defense, I wouldn't want to try it.
 
I'm also a person that will add to the "you should not have switched your defense ammo, because RR 2 3/4 buckshot is GREAT SD ammo," but at the same time, your choice of slugs is not bad either. I believe slugs to be GREAT self defense ammo as well. Whatever suits your needs, I'm glad you are safe.
 
SquirrelNuts, thank you for sharing this incident with us.

Your story reinforces what I was taught and have experienced with buckshot.

Shoot the biggest heaviest load of buckshot your gun will allow.

My favorite defensive buckshot loads are in this order.

For 2-3/4" guns

WW Super X #1 2-3/4" baby magnum (20 pellets) buffered and plated

WW Super X 00 2-3/4" baby magnum (12 pellets)

For 3" Guns

#1 buck buffered and plated (24 pellets)

00 Buck buffered and plated (15 pellets)

These loads kick hard and hit hard but kill great in thier effective pattern range.
 
Had to shoot dogs...

I understand how one would NOT feel good about having to take life. Yes every life is sacrd in my eyes even the dogs you described. BUT these dogs were trained to kill and had killed before.
I personally teach my son and live by the "do not kill anythiing you aren't going to eat" rule.

But in instances of self defense the sadest part of this story is that the owner, the street pharmacy guy, is still around to train other dogs to kill. TOO bad that bastard doesn't take a handful of the crap he's selling to our youths. And of course he has rights and the police are there to see that HIS rights aren't violated, blah, blah, blah.....
Don't feel bad for killing any dogs that may have killed you. Screw them and their owner!
 
Thanks for sharing your story. I'm glad you and yours weren't injured.

I keep 5 rounds of 2 3/4 #4 Buckshot in the tube of my Mossberg 500 and 5 slugs in the nylon shell holder on the stock.
 
My Maverick 88 is stuffed with Rem 3"Mag #4, and slugs in the butt-cuff.

My earliest adventure with a bad dog was when I was about 6 or 7...The {ahem} 'neighbor' had been warned about this dog's habit of using smaller kids as his own chew toys...

Problem finally ended when 'Rover' decided he was going to have a chew-toy fest at our small lids baseball game.

Even small kids (albeit a group of them) are amazingly effective when equipped with Louisville Sluggers...
 
I had to end a problem with a Cocker Spaniel that like to use me as a chew toy everytime I walked out of the garage. Told the neighbor down the street several times. After I was biten the 2nd time I decided to dig the bat out of the closet. Walked outside and here he came. I dropped him off on the owners front porch with a note attached.
 
Hey Nuts you did fine. My Daughter went into respiratory arrest while on my chest when she was 2 days old. There was no thinking or mesured response. You just act. When it is you or your own it changes everything. Viewing a situation through the myopic lense of adrenaline and fear is different than reading a book....

By the way at the time, I had been a Paramedic for 15 years. Had been a flightmedic, Advanced Cardiac Life Support Instructor, State licensed paramedic teacher, Taken Pediatric Advanced Life support and Neonatal Advanced Life support blah, blah, blah.......
 
SQUIRRELNUTS, suggest you get #1 buck shells for your shotgun rather than the slugs or "00" buck.

My Special Forces unit had access to lots of weapons, so just for fun (Yeah, Right!!) we ran tests to determine the best weapon for house-to-house fighting. We tested subguns, carbines, ect. from several nations...and we settled on the 12-ga pump shotgun...but with #1 buck, NOT "double aught"! OO buck has only 9 balls and spreads too much for a sure one-shot hit across a street. But the #1 buck has 16 .30 balls that will cover an entire door or window. Fringe benefit: Less penetration through walls to help protect against accidental civilian hits.;)
 
Quote: I realize that an emotional response is often the poorest reaction to any situation, . im sure its not any more different than most cases of post traumatic stress disorder. i was sleeping with a gun for a few months after i got back from being blown up in iraq, so i totally understand the feeling
 
I got charged by a loose pack of five once in the mountains. They were coming uphill through a power line clearcut at me standing at the top of the draw. I don't think they were feral, just a pack owned by one of the shack residents up there in the mountains and allowed to run loose.

I was just minding my own business and happened to have my ancient Mossberg slung over my shoulder. I was using the 30" full-choke barrel and had it loaded with 1-3/4 oz of lead BBs in 3" magnum cases which I had loaded myself for geese. I had wanted to test them out on just any old things-you-find-in-the-mountains, like trees and rocks and stuff. You know, just sort of shotgun-plinking. And sometimes just watching dirt get blasted around is better than actually patterning your loads on paper. And more fun.

I had my 1911 with me, but when those dogs started racing up the draw, I didn't even think of the handgun, but unslung the Mossberg right away. About 100 yards away I realized they weren't coming to say hello, and I wasn't on any private property. When they got to about forty yards I shouldered it and let loose at the lead dog. He yelped and rolled right over. They kept coming, and I rolled the second dog, at which point the third one paused to sniff the second one, looked at me, and turned back down the mountain, the other two barked a couple of times at me and then followed him back down the hill. That second dog's body was only about twenty yards away, and was beginning to look like hamburger with all the blood running all over him.

I decided that with all the barking and yelping and shooting, which echoed back and forth, I'd better get out of there PDQ, so I did, even though I had not broken any laws or anything. And I wasn't going to hang around doing any Coroner-ing on the dead dogs. I'd leave the post-mortem-ing to the Crows and Magpies.

A couple of minutes later, while I was driving away, it dawned on me that I did not feel any recoil or hear the actual shots, only the echoes off the mountains.

When I later tried those loads while I was just standing and shooting at something, I realized how much recoil and noise they actually had.

I hate to say it, but I cannot stand loose dogs running around. One isn't too bad, but two is a pack.

And yes, I had picked up my two empties and I reloaded them later.

That load of about 85 lead BBs had proven itself, to my mind.

Terry, 230RN
 
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You have every right to defend your self.Good thing you didn't stick around though.You don't need to run into the dog's owner,who might not agree with me,and might be 'extra' from Deliverance.
 
When I used to walk to jr. high school, crossing some undeveloped areas, and also suburban fringe areas, there were feral or run-loose Dog Packs who would show up, and Treed me a few times, or otherwise ( I thought, ) threatened me, as if I were a prey.


I elected to make up quite a few little items made of three regular Fire Crackers, taped around three Strike Anywhere Kitchen Matches, but with the Fire Cracker Fuses trimmed 'short'.

This way, Striking the Matches gave about one second before the Fire Crackers went off.


As the Dogs approached, I'd strike and toss these, even several at once, struck-at-once, ( some were also weighted to toss farther, ) so they'd detonate under or close to or against the ribs of various Dogs, as they were arriving, milling, or charging, and this worked well to disourage them. Though it was really fairly 'iffy' as for success, and I was never sure if I'd make out alright.


I feared at the time, that those Dogs could/would kill me, in their over-excited 'prey' catching modes of pack-energy drive...at least half of them were fairly big Dogs, too.


I like Dogs...but run-loose or feral packs, are a very different mentality, than dealing with a Dog as an individual.

After a few of these episodes with the Fire Crackers, they kept a distance, appearing conflicted or frustrated with how any closer, would mean unpleasantness for them.
 
Oyeboten said

I like Dogs...but run-loose or feral packs, are a very different mentality, than dealing with a Dog as an individual.
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That's exactly the problem. And of course the owners (if any) always think, "My poochie-woochie doesn't:
(A) chase people
(B) crap on your lawn
(C) run livestock
(D) dig up your roses
(E) bark all night
(F) ______________"

And that might be so, but get two or more together, and it's a different story. I used to raise Labs and Standard Poodles, so you can't say I don't like dogs, but man, I knew dogs, and I kept them under control

When I had my little farm up Boulder way, I shot any loose dog I saw on my property after we found 13 chickens dead. Just killed for the fun of it. If it were a coyote or fox, they'd have taken just one and run off with it, so I know it was dogs.

But of course, they were just being dogs. It's the irresponsible people who let them run I have a beef with.

Yeah, once in a while they'll dig under the kennel fencing or this or that, but I kept an eye out for that kind of activity.

That firecracker technique sounds clever, Oyeboten.

BHP Fan said,

Good thing you didn't stick around though.You don't need to run into the dog's owner,who might not agree with you, and might be an 'extra' from Deliverance.
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That's exactly what I was thinking as I picked up my empties. By now I've forgotten the exact load, but I'm pretty sure it was 1 3/4 oz of those lead BBs over a couple of spoonfuls of Blue Dot.

(This was before the days when lead shot got to be all "Ewww-ey" and made people flutter their hands and look Heavenward and turn away in disgust and revulsion and loathing. I gave the remainder of that 25 lb bag of BB shot to my son a couple of years ago. I think he cast .44 Round balls for his .44 Walker or something out of that lead, but I'm not sure.)

Terry, 230RN
 
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Hi 230rn,


Yes...packs of feral or run-loose Dogs are very dangerous to Sheeps, or other vulnerable Live Stock or Fowl...where sadly, the Dogs, in their glee and excitements, injure or kill in sport and not for food.


Wolves or other genuinely Wild Canids, tend to kill only for food, and to eat what they kill.


So, of the two, I'd suppose the Dogs to be the more dangerous, and destrucive.


Probably they do not mean to be that way, but are not able to realize their proper ancient ways under the circumsances, and get carried away in the hunt-and-bring-down stuff, and showing off to eachother, with no real context or follow-through.


My guess...
 
1959 A town in England, a panicky across the street resident knocks on my front door, her dog has rabies (She thinks?) and is banging in to the back gate, from the inside, she was frightened the latch would jump, and the dog would get out.

I had a 9mm Browning Hi Power, leaned out of the back window, hers! and shot the dog, it was covered in froth around the muzzle.

The sub gun 115g hard ball, went right through the back of it's head, dropped instantly, ricocheted off a yard slab, two corners of the wall, through the outside toilet wooden door, and 2" into one of the supports of the water tank.

When asked what that bullet would go through, anything it wanted was the answer.

Dog had distemper, I think that was the verdict, we had no rabies at that time.

That was when you could own Pistols in the UK. Oh, I forgot, gun clubs are starting up in Ireland again.
 
Growing up in the country I had to dispatch more than a few feral dogs myself and while doing so there was always a twinge in my heart. They were after the cattle. People would simply let these dogs out on the road to fend for themselves only to be found by the roadside dumpsters or feral packs. An anathema for farmers.
Owner responsibility is responsibility and if they cannot do their job People like us will. Dogs on the loose whether in the country or city group into packs.
It's their instict and called pack drive because their driven to do it. To me it is intolerable to see an animal on the loose in an urban environment.
Dogs on the loose and out from the house consider the territory theirs. It is their mentality. If you are in that territory and if you are faced with an aggressive dog than that dog thinks you are in his territory. Dogs think humans are dogs. In a loud voice yell at the dog to go home. Most of the time it will. If not and if the aggressive dog starts to circle you then you should never run. This is where women and children make the mistake of running. Never turn your back to this kind of dog. Back away slowly and the dog should consider your action as non threatening and leave you alone. If not then look to be aggressed. Shoot if you have a gun. If not then look for something you can use. A rock, 2X4 or piece of iron. If the dog charges hold up your forearm and take the bite if you have to because he might charge up for the throat.
 
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