My SD Shooting

[mgkdrgn]

Buckshot according to reports from our local animal control 00 sometimes even fails on sick racoons at 15 yds.

I would expect the reason for that failure is that their pattern at 15 yards had a hole in it the size of a racoon and they shot everything -but- it. There is just no way a racoon is walking away from a solid center of mass hit from 00 buckshot at 15 yards with any correct functioning hunting load.

 

[CZguy]

There is just no way a racoon is walking away from a solid center of mass hit from 00 buckshot at 15 yards with any correct functioning hunting load.

Yep, you can read on the internet how buckshot won't do something at close range, but my experience tells me otherwise.

That would be one dead Raccoon.

 

[TXJon]

I had a roughly similar experience as the OP a few years back. Two pits, two rounds of #3 buck from a 20g. Both dogs DRT, one at 10 yds, the other at about 25.

 

[TooTaxed]

In the 1950's (I don't know about now...) feral dog packs were a real danger in the Oak Ridge, Tennessee area. Farmers would occasionally get together and drive-hunt them. They killed a lot of livestock, and I got stalked by a pack when I was about 10 or 12-years old on one of my solo rambles through the countryside to the river.

Things got very quiet, and when I crossed a clearing and quickly looked behind, I saw that a large mongrel dog had just entered the clearing on my trail. He froze and wouldn't make any movement when I tried to call it to me. I glanced in the direction I was going, and when I looked again, the dog had disappeared as if it had never been there.

I retreated to the top of an elevated railroad grade and walked back home to Oak Ridge, several dogs following me at ground level on both sides of the grade. They never made a sound, and when I got close to civilization they quietly disappeared.

When I told my father, he notified the police, and that was my last solo jaunt.

People used to drive out in the country and drop off unwanted dogs...a bad thing to do for any number of reasons... First generation dogs can often be called in and reclaimed, but the second generation in the wild are...wild and unresponsive to humans.

 

[chieftain]

TooTaxed,

I have been involved in several incidents with feral dogs.

While in the Corps, in North Carolina, I was assigned as a deputy Game warden on the base as collateral duty. Mainly we controlled the hunting on base, hunted down wounded game, and the MP's would use us to collect up rabid and dangerous animals. But we had several feral dog packs on base. Our teams, we usually worked and patrolled in pairs, were attacked from time to time.

Our duty weapon was a 38spl, model 10 4" round grip S&W. We were authorized to use our own shotguns. We would use them on the dogs. Even in those days I preferred #1 Buck in 2 3/4 magnums, twenty 30 caliber pellets. Very effective. It was nice to see that today the FBI finds the #1 buck as THE MOST EFFECTIVE buck shot for fighting bad guys too. Of course folks with much less combat experience than the FBI, disagree..........

About the dogs, though. The two of us would patrol and both of us would have our shotguns in what is called today "cruiser" ready condition. It got rather testy at times. Particularly during the winter and the dogs would be trying to defend a wounded deer that they had dragged down and we had been tracking. We were free to engage, but we were not allowed to go "Hunting" for the dogs. IIRC Some one in the chain of command was afraid of bad PR.

The most I ever was involved in taking out was 5 dogs. One team shot 9 dogs. And all those shots were fast and in self defense.

At times finding the dogs would be similar to kicking up a quail covey, by surprise. All of sudden there are a bunch of dogs around you, howling, barking some attacking immediately and some threatening. It did get the adrenalin going. Some very fast shooting, and once or twice transitioning to the sidearm was required.

This was around 1974-1975.

Good luck.

Fred

 

[Shadow 7D]

What about the spreader cups and inserts, I see them on midway reload, they are supposed to improve close patters?

 

[Fred Fuller]

they are supposed to improve close patters?

They open up patterns at close range... if that's considered an improvement, they work. 8^)

lpl

 

[TooTaxed]

Consider...dogs are not thick-skinned big game, and don't require 00 buck or slugs to put them down. An open pattern of heavy shot...I'd go no larger than #1 buck, or smaller than #2 shot...should be quite adequate, and lessen danger to background targets you don't want to hit...cars, houses, children...!

 

[Otto]

...a problem neighbor of mine. It turns out he is a convicted felon and street pharmaceutical salesman. That was the first I had learned of him or his dogs.

Sounds like you're living on the wrong side of the tracks.

 

[TooTaxed]

Otto, we had one of those in our rather quiet, upscale neighborhood...now in prison, and his house sold... It can happen anywhere, no matter how good the neighborhood. Children of fine parents can be a problem to all...

 

[Neocode]

Sounds like you're living on the wrong side of the tracks.

Seems very judgmental of you. Some people do the best they can, and that's not to be judged.

 

[SquirrelNuts]

Sounds like you're living on the wrong side of the tracks.

Actually not. It is a nice neighborhood. Think about this. He makes a lot of money and it is all tax free. If you had a lot of money, all tax free, would you live on the wrong side of the tracks, or in a nice neighborhood?

 

[DannyinJapan]

Gotta get long guns to the shoulder! Shotguns are notoriously bad at hip shooting.

 

[jimsmith80]

Sorry But I have to add my advice. First off you did good. I don't think that those dogs would have lasted as long as they in michigan, I am also a dog lover and have a German Shepherd Bitch. She is pure black and a wonderful girl. A dog like that went after her would be like attacking my child, so I understand your remorse and you williness at the same time. When I go for late night walks I carry an ASP in addition to my sig 229 9mm, for the exact reason. I don't want them to get that close but its sure better then hand to hand! Ok So as for you shot gun, its pretty well known by experts that OO does just what it did when you fired it. lots of reasons, but read some finn Agard (african PH) or "Death in the long Grass" both have to do with shotguns VS charging beasts. There are others I con recommend that cover wounds in People, email or PM me for titles. Anyway the way to go with a shot gun is with #4 buck or slugs as you did. I found however that for Home Defense I prefer a rifle. Now before you all yell, I use an AR15 custom built by a Legion of Valor member. It has less chance of over penetration than a hand gun or shotgun with slugs or buck. I use the 55gr Hornady TAP load. I had the unfortunate experince of having to shoot dogs in Iraq. Even the M885 FMJ from an M4 does any outstanding job. Works GREAT on people also. So to me a 5.56mm is a win win. Couple that with you needed to reload your shotgun VS 28rds in the ar. It gives me the range of shooting out to 400m if I need it (yes I shoot it at that distance!). The Ar has low recoil, easy to hit with , limited over penetration, and large ammo compacity. I love shotguns to, I just found that rifles WORK! As for your Glock 9mm vs glock 45, don't fret a 9mm works good to, just put them in something important same as any bullet! Ok sorry to be such an arm chair quaterback. But really you did fine, its hard to know how one will do till you have to face a life or death, and you will now be more comfidant if you should be forced to act in defense of life again.
If you want to talk more about terminal blastics its a reaserch topic of mine so I would be glad to dicuss it with anyone.

 

[TeamRush]

I am an outstanding shot, but... in this case I did not even have time to bring the shotgun to my shoulder. It all happened in a couple seconds and that wad was ten feet from me. I never did hit Gator.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I've seen this time and time again...
'Average Joe' taking a gun into places he's not ready to be in himself, and the firearm making the situation MUCH worse!
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"I am an outstanding shot",...

I beg to differ...
There is more to being an "Outstanding Shot" than just pointing the firearm and pulling the trigger in a blind panic...

Apparently, you fired between 6 and 8 rounds of 00 buck and only made ONE hit at a range of 10 feet or less...

I know one load (or partial load) of the 00 Buck hit a dog.
Looks like a partial load hit a tree from the images you posted...

Do you know where the other 6 rounds went?

That's 6 rounds with 9 to 15 balls each! That's 54 to 90 projectiles on the loose and unaccounted for!!!

Can you account for each ball of each load?

What was in the backstop areas of those loads?
Kids playing beyond your fence?
Neighbors house?
School Yard?
Playground?
You said you were shooting at a 'Downward' angle...
Do you suppose there were any ricochets on rocks, concrete, ect.?
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I'm not trying to be a Monday Morning Quarterback....
You have EVERY RIGHT to defend yourself and home as far as I'm concerned...

BUT!
You are also equally responsible for every ball of that buck from the time it exited your muzzle to the time it stopped moving... No matter where it landed!
-----------------------------------

I see your 'After Action' report mostly concluded you needed to switch to slugs instead of buckshot...

I didn't see anything about learning to CONTROL the 'Tunnel Vision', to be able to anticipate IMMEDIATE CONTACT,
As in have the Firearm at 'Low Ready' so it's already shouldered....

I didn't see any mention of classes or courses on firearms control so you anticipate the shot,
Check the background/backstops...

Personally,
I think the 'After Action' report should be that:
1. You need more training so you don't get 'Tunnel Vision',

...And by the way, that is the #1 thing we had to combat trying to train military 'Shooters'....
Adrenalin and Tunnel Vision will get you (and others) killed faster than any one single other thing you can think of!

2. You need weapons training so you can identify backstop potential (or the lack of sufficient backstop) in high stress, immediate shooting situations.

3. You need weapons training so you know how, and where to hold the weapon when you expect you may encounter a target.
In your situation, 'Low Ready', Where the shotgun is
Safety OFF,
Shouldered, but pointing at the ground about 10' in front of you,
Finger OFF THE TRIGGER, up on the side of the receiver...
NOT the trigger guard or trigger,

This Low Ready position would have almost insured your first shot as a center mass hit unless you pulled the trigger with your eyes closed!
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All in all, I'm glad you and your family were safe after this incident,
And I'm glad no one else was injured!

Now you are WIDE AWAKE to the effects of adrenlin on the mind when the 'Survival Instinct' takes over, and how hard it is to use the 'Right Brain' when that flood of 'FLEE!!!' hormones takes over!

Use that for training, and since you have FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE!
USE THAT FOR TRAINING OTHERS!

Nothing like a guy with "wet pants" to emphasize how all your so called 'Logical Thought' goes right out the window,
And muscle memory takes over in a situation like that!

 

[6-gunfun]

hey dont lagh at the hip shot i wasnt hiped up on adrenaline but ive shot at least 2 rabbits with my .410 hip shot and my mom got a snow sho from prbly 15 yards with a .410 double barrel

 

[Dimis]

pffft they should make it permit to own pitbulls and leave the gun owners alone