This is a newbie question, but when you see semi-auto handguns the capacity is always listed as 10+1 or 17+1, etc... But while this is a theoretical capacity it's pretty much a pain-in-the-ass, isn't it? Is there any way to get the extra round in the chamber other than loading a full magazine, releasing the slide to chamber the round, removing the magazine, inserting the extra cartridge and then reloading the magazine.
n+1 capacity
- Thread starter jhudock
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rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Keep two loaded magazines on hand, and load and change mags.
Then put the extra round back in the -1 mag at the end of the day, or whatever..
Seriously, some guns would allow you to drop a round in the chamber and drop the slide on it, because that is the same way they feed out of the magazine.
But most companies tell you not to do so, as it is possible to cause an out-of-battry ND if the extractor or edge of the slide somehow hit a primer before the round was fully chambered.
Others, like a 1911 for instance, should not be loaded that way because it is hard on the extractor.
They use more of a "controlled round" feed system where the round in the magazine slides up the breach face and under the extractor.
It would never have to snap over the case rim in normal operation.
It really isn't a PITA to me, because I generally don't care whether the mag in the gun is topped off to full capacity or not.
Many guns feed better without that last round mag spring pressure pushing up on the slide like a car jack.
rc
Then put the extra round back in the -1 mag at the end of the day, or whatever..
Seriously, some guns would allow you to drop a round in the chamber and drop the slide on it, because that is the same way they feed out of the magazine.
But most companies tell you not to do so, as it is possible to cause an out-of-battry ND if the extractor or edge of the slide somehow hit a primer before the round was fully chambered.
Others, like a 1911 for instance, should not be loaded that way because it is hard on the extractor.
They use more of a "controlled round" feed system where the round in the magazine slides up the breach face and under the extractor.
It would never have to snap over the case rim in normal operation.
It really isn't a PITA to me, because I generally don't care whether the mag in the gun is topped off to full capacity or not.
Many guns feed better without that last round mag spring pressure pushing up on the slide like a car jack.
rc
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
The easy way is to keep a "Barney" magazine on hand. Named after the Andy Griffith Show's Barney Fife, who only was allowed to keep one cartridge, and that in his shirt pocket, the Barney mag is kept loaded with one or two rounds (though you can load it up if you prefer) simply to aid in loading up at the start of the day (or match stage).
When loading up for the day, retrieve your weapon, insert the Barney mag, rack the slide, drop the Barney mag and put it back on the shelf. Insert your normally loaded duty/carry mag and holster.
It's a little less fumbly than the "chamber one, then top off the mag" routine.
...
As rcmodel indicates, the simplest (Did someone say lazy? Well, it wasn't ME!) way is to ignore the theoretical capacity and just go with whatever fits in your mag, not bothering to top off. I will admit to this when carrying my xDM. I can't seem to get too awful worked up about the possible detriment of having to reload after 19 shots instead of number 20.
When loading up for the day, retrieve your weapon, insert the Barney mag, rack the slide, drop the Barney mag and put it back on the shelf. Insert your normally loaded duty/carry mag and holster.
It's a little less fumbly than the "chamber one, then top off the mag" routine.
...
As rcmodel indicates, the simplest (Did someone say lazy? Well, it wasn't ME!) way is to ignore the theoretical capacity and just go with whatever fits in your mag, not bothering to top off. I will admit to this when carrying my xDM. I can't seem to get too awful worked up about the possible detriment of having to reload after 19 shots instead of number 20.
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
I don't think so, no. Just part of your gun handling routine. You wouldn't normally be doing it while someone is shooting back, so there's no rush
And Sam mentions the Barney magazine but if you use that technique remember to leave the empty mag at home as he says. You don't want to walk out the door with an empty and mistake it for full when you need it the most.
Unistat
Member
There is also the Administrative Reload technique, which I use. This is handy when you're reloading carry ammo when leaving the range or you're reloading when leaving a gun show where they zip-tie your gun. It keeps you from fumbling around with a loaded gun while trying to top off a mag.
1: Leave one loose round on the table, in your pocket, where ever, close at hand.
2: Insert mag and release the slide.
3. Holster firearm.
4. Release the mag of the holstered firearm and load the loose round.
5. Re-insert mag into holstered firearm.
1: Leave one loose round on the table, in your pocket, where ever, close at hand.
2: Insert mag and release the slide.
3. Holster firearm.
4. Release the mag of the holstered firearm and load the loose round.
5. Re-insert mag into holstered firearm.
If you use this technique, be sure that you have fully seat the fully loaded magazine...I'd recommend at least giving the baseplate a tug to be sure it is locked in
This technique has been the cause of most Stage 1 stoppages I have seen with single stack magazines. The fully loaded single column of cartridges exerts quite a bit of inward tension and the angle of the holstered gun as a tendency to absorb some of the force used to seat the magazine
TexasRifleman
Moderator Emeritus
Unistat said:
I do it sort of your way, but I unholster again to seat the (now refilled) magazine rather than trying to do it in the holster, for the reasons stated above.
I do it this way because I like to carry with a magazine that has no base pad for concealment purposes, but all the other magazines have a base pad for better reloads, so I need to top off the carry mag and without a base pad it's a bit tougher to seat sometimes.
zxcvbob
Member
I was shooting my new Walther P1 this weekend and noticed that the extractor looks like it was designed for loading single-shot style without even using a magazine. (or load a lose round by hand, drop the slide, decock, and load the magazine to carry it 8+1) The extractor is spring-loaded and rides over the rim just fine.
It's not just trying to trick me into breaking the extractor is it?
It's not just trying to trick me into breaking the extractor is it?
Scimmia
Member
what do you mean it looked like it was designed for it? Virtually all extractors are spring loaded and are capable of riding over the rim, but if it's a controlled feed system, you're pushing the extractor further than it was designed for.
zxcvbob
Member
I mean instead of bending the springy extractor itself to ride over the rim, the extractor is loaded by a coil spring, and deflects fairly easily and the leading edge is beveled. Also why would the entire top of the pistol open up when the slide is back? I am new to these guns and could be reading more into it than is really there.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Designed to? I don't know. Most external style or pivoting style extractors are more forgiving about it than the spring-steel 1911 internal style.
Many firearms were designed with extractors which had to snap over the rim (think of a Kalashnikov's bolt face, or a Remington 700, or an AR-15. The entire case head is surrounded by the bolt and has to "snap" back under the extractor as the bolt closes. They pivot, slide, or otherwise move easily far enough out of the way to do so without stressing the part.
Other rifles, like a Mauser/Winchester "controlled round feed" design (or a 1911 and many other pistols) have an opening in the bolt/breech face that lets the case head slide up under the extractor from below. The extractor doesn't usually need to stretch back far enough to snap over. While I imagine they all can, for the sake of reliability under emergency conditions, doing so often can wear them out.
In a hinged design like the P-38/P-1, I'd probably not worry about wearing it out, but I also wouldn't do that anyway, out of habit. I don't see any good reasons to do so, and I'd not want to reinforce a handling routine that wasn't equally appropriate for all autos.
Many firearms were designed with extractors which had to snap over the rim (think of a Kalashnikov's bolt face, or a Remington 700, or an AR-15. The entire case head is surrounded by the bolt and has to "snap" back under the extractor as the bolt closes. They pivot, slide, or otherwise move easily far enough out of the way to do so without stressing the part.
Other rifles, like a Mauser/Winchester "controlled round feed" design (or a 1911 and many other pistols) have an opening in the bolt/breech face that lets the case head slide up under the extractor from below. The extractor doesn't usually need to stretch back far enough to snap over. While I imagine they all can, for the sake of reliability under emergency conditions, doing so often can wear them out.
In a hinged design like the P-38/P-1, I'd probably not worry about wearing it out, but I also wouldn't do that anyway, out of habit. I don't see any good reasons to do so, and I'd not want to reinforce a handling routine that wasn't equally appropriate for all autos.
Unistat
Member
Yep, a good slap and tug to insert the mag. This was the reason I took out the "plug" on my Glock, so I could more easily tug on the mag.
Scimmia
Member
Many, many modern pistols use use a coilspring loaded extractor instead of the "springy extractor" ala 1911. Many people have broken these kind of extractors single loading them, too. The further you push the extractor out, the more pressure the coil spring puts on the extractor and eventually...snap. Doing it a few times is very unlikely to be a problem, but the more it's done, the more stress wear you're putting on the extractor. I'll say I'm not that familiar with the P38/P1 design, so maybe I'm way off base and they use a different system. Personally, I would only use this method on a push feed system, ie M1 Garand, AR15, Rem 700, etc.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Or a Russian MAK, German Luger, etc.
They are push feed too.
I don't recall if the P38/P1 is or not, but I don't think so.
The way to find out is slowly load it out of the magazine and watch what happens.
If the rounds jumps out of the mag and goes in the chamber, and then the extractor snaps over it as the slide finishes closing, all is well to single load it, cause that's the way it works.
But if the cartridge slides up the breachface and under the extractor?
Nope!
rc
They are push feed too.
I don't recall if the P38/P1 is or not, but I don't think so.
The way to find out is slowly load it out of the magazine and watch what happens.
If the rounds jumps out of the mag and goes in the chamber, and then the extractor snaps over it as the slide finishes closing, all is well to single load it, cause that's the way it works.
But if the cartridge slides up the breachface and under the extractor?
Nope!
rc
Shawn Dodson
Member
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I use this process when I load my pistols:
1) verify chamber is empty
2) put slide into battery
3) SEAT the magazine
4) roll & rack
5) perform a battle-readiness check
6) perform a tactical reload
7) holster the pistol
8) top off the magazine I removed from the pistol and put it in my carrier
I unload as follows:
1) remove magazine
2) place magazine between the ring & pinky fingers of my firing hand
3) roll, rack & lock open the slide
4) look and feel chamber to answer the question: "is it loaded?"
5) retrieve ejected cartridge (and put it with my training ammo)
I normally store my pistols loaded (I don't unload unless I have to). When I "jock up" for CCW I perform the following:
1) battle-readiness check
2) remove the magazine and verify it's loaded to capacity
3) SEAT the magazine
4) holster my pistol
Well, you COULD (not really recommending it) partially seat a magazine with a loose round riding on top of it, make sure the round slides under the extractor then close the slide. Fully seat the mag and you're good to go.
It wouldn't really be any easier though.
It wouldn't really be any easier though.
bigfatdave
Member
HDCamel, that sort of works for single-stack magazine guns, it doesn't work very well at all for staggered stack, and it still doesn't provide controlled feeding under the extractor claw.
jhudock, don't over-think it, you'll only be doing the "extra round dance" when loading up for carry or maybe for competition ... if you don't dink around clearing your weapon and reloading it all the time, it is a very small concern.
Discussions on "the extra round", "bullet setback", and even if a round should be in the chamber are endless and well hashed out ... do some searching and decide for yourself, you aren't the first to notice that autoloading handguns can require a bit more skill and thought to operate.
jhudock, don't over-think it, you'll only be doing the "extra round dance" when loading up for carry or maybe for competition ... if you don't dink around clearing your weapon and reloading it all the time, it is a very small concern.
Discussions on "the extra round", "bullet setback", and even if a round should be in the chamber are endless and well hashed out ... do some searching and decide for yourself, you aren't the first to notice that autoloading handguns can require a bit more skill and thought to operate.
NavyLCDR
member
I drop the round in the chamber and let the extractor hop over the rim, then load a full magazine. I don't want to wear out my magazine spring prematurely by decompressing it one round, the re-compressing it when I reload the top round back to full capacity. 
carbuncle
Member
I don't think it's a big deal to top up the mag, but I don't tend to screw around with my carry guns when I'm not going to the range.
Lawdawg45
Member
Lock the slide open, drop a single round in the tube and release the slide, then place the full magazine in the weapon. Plain and simple!
LD
LD
FoMoGo
Member
Dropping a mag out and thumbing in another round isnt a hassle for me.
It takes longer to brush your teeth than top off a mag.
How many are skipping out on hygiene because it takes too long?
Jim
It takes longer to brush your teeth than top off a mag.
How many are skipping out on hygiene because it takes too long?
Jim
spclpatrolgroup
Member
I load my pistol, and the only way it is unloaded is by pressing the trigger. At home my pistol, in the holster gets put in the lock box on the nightstand. So while it is a extra step to add one to the magazine, its not like I have to do it so constantly that it has become a problem.
I remember Beretta had a solution of having tip-up barrels on some pistols, where the barrel opened up for chambering the first round without having to retract the slide. Not sure if any current models still feature this, but it was advertised as an advantage for women, or people with weak hands who had problems racking the slide on an autoloading pistol. As I recall, the guns with this feature were .22, .25, .32, and .380 models, I don't think there were any high-power models offered as tip-ups.
bigfatdave
Member
Congratulations! you now need a new extractor in your pistol!
(with many designs)
Single round in the mag
There is 1 definate advantage in chambering a cartridge with a single round in the magazine. A freak accident, starting with a broken sear, could conceivable fire the chambered round, cycling the firearm and continuing on until the magazine is empty.
Note that I said FREAK accident.
A single round in the magazine would limit your embarassment to a single ND.
Now, if you would rather not top off your firearm, and get into an OH CRAP moment with one less cartridge read to fly, then by all means do so.
There is 1 definate advantage in chambering a cartridge with a single round in the magazine. A freak accident, starting with a broken sear, could conceivable fire the chambered round, cycling the firearm and continuing on until the magazine is empty.
Note that I said FREAK accident.
A single round in the magazine would limit your embarassment to a single ND.
Now, if you would rather not top off your firearm, and get into an OH CRAP moment with one less cartridge read to fly, then by all means do so.
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