Onward Allusion
Member
25 yard+Bench+at the Range+slow fire = Real world effective range 10 to 15 feet point shooting with a laser or right up against someone's belly.
NAA mini revolver...anyone?
- Thread starter Pud
- Start date
- Status
25 yard+Bench+at the Range+slow fire = Real world effective range 10 to 15 feet point shooting with a laser or right up against someone's belly.
shiftyer1
Member
I have one in .22lr, I bought it because I had a wild hair
It's just a fun gun, but if I need it....it's there.
It's just a fun gun, but if I need it....it's there.
BCRider
Member
I'm amazed at how much attention this topic got in only a day.
I've got a special Canadian issue "The Earl" with the 4.2 inch barrel made for us by NAA. It's actually a darn accurate gun with me being able to obtain 2 inch groups at 12 yards with good regularity. I would not expect any less for the 2.5 inch version.
The real issue with it as a gun for SD where you'd want to be able to grip it with automatic consistency is the grips being so small. With some new custom wood grips that were a little thicker along the back strap, a bit fatter side to side and one more finger long it would likely "index" into a shooter's grip far more better. But as it is there's just too little to allow that.
I've got a special Canadian issue "The Earl" with the 4.2 inch barrel made for us by NAA. It's actually a darn accurate gun with me being able to obtain 2 inch groups at 12 yards with good regularity. I would not expect any less for the 2.5 inch version.
The real issue with it as a gun for SD where you'd want to be able to grip it with automatic consistency is the grips being so small. With some new custom wood grips that were a little thicker along the back strap, a bit fatter side to side and one more finger long it would likely "index" into a shooter's grip far more better. But as it is there's just too little to allow that.
evan price
Member
I have one in the 22 Mag with the slightly longer barrel, 1-5/8" and keep it full of Hornady V-Max 22 mags. It's my CCW when I can't carry anything else or a BUG otherwise. It's not a long range pistol but I figure it as my "Get Off Of Me" gun. Stuck in the hollow under the jaw, behind the ear, in the nose, into the belly- I figure range isn't going to be an issue. The V-Max ammo did quite well VS a car door when I tried it out.
I've CCW'ed this little NAA wearing nothing but a Speedo successfully.
I've CCW'ed this little NAA wearing nothing but a Speedo successfully.
10-96
Member
OP- If you get one and you're not very mechanically inclined Don't Take It Apart! I've had two of the things brought to me in sandwich bags after the owners thought they ought to be detail stripped and cleaned. If you do take it all the way down- go slow and don't get anything out of reverse order in which it came out.
bikerdoc
Moderator In Memoriam
Wife uses one as a bug. She can hide that thing easily.
BUG
I carry a PUG in .22 mag. sometimes. I don't feel it is the best defense for some situations, but at arms length a head shot will stop a fight in a hurry. I had too many light strikes when it was new some three years ago and sent it back to NAA. It is reasonably reliable, but still doesn't light off every round.
I carry a PUG in .22 mag. sometimes. I don't feel it is the best defense for some situations, but at arms length a head shot will stop a fight in a hurry. I had too many light strikes when it was new some three years ago and sent it back to NAA. It is reasonably reliable, but still doesn't light off every round.
USAF_Vet
Member
Thank you for NOT posting pics of that
I would think the .22 mag out of a short barrel like some of these are defeats the purpose of using the magnum round. Having a longer barrel would increase the pressure and velocity of the bullet. How do the .22 magnums perform out the 1 5/8" barrels as compared to the .22LR?
Ash_J_Williams
member
- Joined
- Sep 20, 2011
- Messages
- 328
Are you Val Kilmer's character in Kiss Kiss Bang Bang?
Hoppes Love Potion
Member
I carry the Black Widow as primary. I practice with it a lot and at short distances (10-12 feet) the gun and I are very accurate.
I also think the Sheriff is a very good choice for CC. With the sleeker frame it is lighter than the Black Widow and only a little bit longer. Plus, I like the new secure cylinder pin latch.
I think these NAA revolvers are excellent for CC. They do require a different mindset. Just make sure you can grip it securely - larger or stickier grips may be required. Then get creative about where you carry - these little guns are easy to hide. Also, get plenty of practice. You need to develop the motor skills to deploy, grip, and fire quickly and accurately. The .22lr conversion cylinder can help keep practice costs down to almost nothing.
I also think the Sheriff is a very good choice for CC. With the sleeker frame it is lighter than the Black Widow and only a little bit longer. Plus, I like the new secure cylinder pin latch.
I think these NAA revolvers are excellent for CC. They do require a different mindset. Just make sure you can grip it securely - larger or stickier grips may be required. Then get creative about where you carry - these little guns are easy to hide. Also, get plenty of practice. You need to develop the motor skills to deploy, grip, and fire quickly and accurately. The .22lr conversion cylinder can help keep practice costs down to almost nothing.
Mesinge2 you are correct- I am half blind in one eye and cant see out of the other ---just went to my outdoor range on an overcast day -I fired my buddys 22 mag 4" S&W and it shot flames!! Sorry= I was not aware of the blast in the darker times! Thanks for the great pics . I have not shot in the dark very often -in the Army we used flash hiders on our M-1's. that is how old I am.....thanks for the info.. I am corrected!!
I forgot to take my PUG-maybe I will fire it in my indoor range (my basement withmy 22 trap). Do you think it will penetrate the steel 22 lr trap? HA!
I forgot to take my PUG-maybe I will fire it in my indoor range (my basement withmy 22 trap). Do you think it will penetrate the steel 22 lr trap? HA!
Last edited:
First time shooting my Mini mag at 15 feet, CCI 30gr HP+V. 10 rds under 2 1/2".
30 gr loads key holed more often. Heavier rounds would stabilize better.
I called NAA about the key holing and they said return it to the dealer and they will send a shipping label. I'll test it with the new Hornady 45gr loads and gold dots first.
Oh and get the oversize grips, 100% better.
22WRM in gel 2" barrel
http://www.brassfetcher.com/22 Magnum Winchester 40gr FMJ.html
30 gr loads key holed more often. Heavier rounds would stabilize better.
I called NAA about the key holing and they said return it to the dealer and they will send a shipping label. I'll test it with the new Hornady 45gr loads and gold dots first.
Oh and get the oversize grips, 100% better.
22WRM in gel 2" barrel
http://www.brassfetcher.com/22 Magnum Winchester 40gr FMJ.html
i carry mine alot, just threw it in my pocket today for my walk around the neighborhood. not very accurate but its an up close and personal piece that if you shove in someones face their gonna think twice. i also have a p32 and i been carrying this more. ignition has been pretty good, i'd say 98% or so.
MCgunner
Member
My Black Widow magnum has a 2" barrel, but vs my 1 5/8" .22LR I get about 300 more FPS and that's with a full 40 grain bullet vs 38 grain HP in the LR.
USAF_Vet
Member
well, 300 FPS isn't too shabby. I wonder what the increase would be in a 4" bbl.
I think .22LR vs .22Mag in a short barrel is like .38 Special vs .357 Mag in a short barrel.
The magnum rounds might not be living up to their full potential in such a short barrel (And they've got extra kick and flash you might not want to deal with), but they still outrun their non magnum cousins.
The magnum rounds might not be living up to their full potential in such a short barrel (And they've got extra kick and flash you might not want to deal with), but they still outrun their non magnum cousins.
USAF_Vet
Member
Thats pretty much what I was getting at. I was a bit surprised by the 300 FPS of the mag over the LR, but as you can see in the pictures, there is a lot of flash from unburned powder. I'm still curious about terminal balistics.
I have the Black Widow 22 Mag. Pretty worthless for accuracy but that's not what it's for. It's for that surprise when I'm wearing nothing but a t shirt, shorts and tennis shoes and you demand my wallet. Pressed against your belly, it will make an awesome hole. Try this: Shoot a watermelon with it from a couple feet away. Nothing impressive, due to the short barrel probably about as powerful as a 22LR low velocity. Now press the muzzle against the water melon and pull the trigger. After you scrape all the red stuff, juice and seeds off your face let me know if you think it will "do the job."
MCgunner
Member
IYO, shirt. Take the time to learn to deploy and shoot one and they can surprise you. If you choose not to believe me, that's your choice. I could prove it to you with a range trip.
One thing they don't do well is reload speed. Rather obvious, there. That's why when I carry my BW, I have a back up in the other pocket that's there even if I'm armed, as I am now, with an 11 shot 9x19 holding 11 rounds of +P ammo in my primary pocket.
I use that BUG NAA occasionally, have killed trash raiding possums, a few rabbits out to 25 feet because I HAD it and nothing else, shot snakes with it (using a hollow point, NOT shot loads), various other vermin, put down hogs in the trap (head shots), and put a deer completely out of his misery with it Wednesday after he'd already taken a 385 grain Minie ball in the shoulder and spine. Head shot, shot placement is king. I've been carrying my .22LR version in its holster grip (you might be able to tell from the wear in that pic) for 25 years and it's only been legal for me since 1996. I'd FAR rather have a gun in a cane fight, especially one I have confidence in because I've taken the time to sort it out with ammo it likes and learn to shoot it well. If you can't shoot, I guess you're better off with a cane.
One thing they don't do well is reload speed. Rather obvious, there. That's why when I carry my BW, I have a back up in the other pocket that's there even if I'm armed, as I am now, with an 11 shot 9x19 holding 11 rounds of +P ammo in my primary pocket.
I use that BUG NAA occasionally, have killed trash raiding possums, a few rabbits out to 25 feet because I HAD it and nothing else, shot snakes with it (using a hollow point, NOT shot loads), various other vermin, put down hogs in the trap (head shots), and put a deer completely out of his misery with it Wednesday after he'd already taken a 385 grain Minie ball in the shoulder and spine. Head shot, shot placement is king. I've been carrying my .22LR version in its holster grip (you might be able to tell from the wear in that pic) for 25 years and it's only been legal for me since 1996. I'd FAR rather have a gun in a cane fight, especially one I have confidence in because I've taken the time to sort it out with ammo it likes and learn to shoot it well. If you can't shoot, I guess you're better off with a cane.
BK
Member
Try making a ccw draw with ANYTHING while an attacker with a knife charges you from 10 ft away. You'll lose. Every. Single. Time.
MCgunner
Member
I'm quite fast on the draw with my BW. I'm faster, of course, with my 9mm which I normally carry, but when I can't even carry that, when the BW is all I can conceal, I ain't much of a knife fighter. That's why I HAVE this gun in the first place.
I carry the BW muzzle down in my right pocket in a Blackhawk number 4 pocket holster that fits my Taurus 85SSUL and Kel Tec P11. When I draw it, I grab it around the grip and use my pocket to open it the rest of the way as I move my thumb to the hammer. It's faster than you probably have any idea of not having tried it or practiced it. Works for me, anyway. I've been shooting single actions for 45 years, so thumbing the hammer is nothing new to me. My first handgun was a single action .22, a might larger, though.
Do I prefer this little gun to my 9mm or .38? Hell no! But, can it be effective? Hell YES. It's more effective than any knife or cane. Hell, I beat a knife with an RGM26 once, a POS 25ACP that I couldn't hit the side of a barn with from inside the barn, but it sure saved my bacon THAT day. Too, I had to rack ths slide on that one because I was afraid to carry a round in the chamber condition one on that POS. This bum was no Bruce Lee, but most muggers aren't. I didn't have to shoot. He had only time to turn and run as I leveled the gun on him..,thankfully, or I might still be in prison because there was no right to carry in Texas then.
I carry the BW muzzle down in my right pocket in a Blackhawk number 4 pocket holster that fits my Taurus 85SSUL and Kel Tec P11. When I draw it, I grab it around the grip and use my pocket to open it the rest of the way as I move my thumb to the hammer. It's faster than you probably have any idea of not having tried it or practiced it. Works for me, anyway. I've been shooting single actions for 45 years, so thumbing the hammer is nothing new to me. My first handgun was a single action .22, a might larger, though.
Do I prefer this little gun to my 9mm or .38? Hell no! But, can it be effective? Hell YES. It's more effective than any knife or cane. Hell, I beat a knife with an RGM26 once, a POS 25ACP that I couldn't hit the side of a barn with from inside the barn, but it sure saved my bacon THAT day. Too, I had to rack ths slide on that one because I was afraid to carry a round in the chamber condition one on that POS. This bum was no Bruce Lee, but most muggers aren't. I didn't have to shoot. He had only time to turn and run as I leveled the gun on him..,thankfully, or I might still be in prison because there was no right to carry in Texas then.
Last edited:
Hoppes Love Potion
Member
As I said, it takes a little effort to go there. Make sure the grip yo use doesn't jump out of your hand. Then practice until you are comfortable and accurate.
These are formidable little weapons, and we now have .22 Mag ammo designed for short barrels and reliable expansion. I myself favor penetration over expansion, and the .22 Mag was already pretty good in that regard. But any innovation is welcome.
These are formidable little weapons, and we now have .22 Mag ammo designed for short barrels and reliable expansion. I myself favor penetration over expansion, and the .22 Mag was already pretty good in that regard. But any innovation is welcome.
MCgunner
Member
I've been trying to get ahold of some Speer Gold Dot, but it's painfully slow getting to dealers, it seems. I wanna try it first because CCI maxi mag works so well for accuracy and reliable ignition in my gun and I can't say the same for Hornady.
Excellent point. A determined attacker that close will be there first regardless of your weapon of choice, even a CANE! You goofed up if he got that close to your personal space to begin with. This is tactics, not marksmanship, we're talking about, here.
Excellent point. A determined attacker that close will be there first regardless of your weapon of choice, even a CANE! You goofed up if he got that close to your personal space to begin with. This is tactics, not marksmanship, we're talking about, here.
crisco
Member
I have a 22lr 1 5/8 barrel NAA and love it. There's four or five guns in my carry rotation, so the little NAA only gets carried for back up, or on occasions where I honestly can't get away with my keltec p32.
For those occasions, I'm awfully thankful for the function it is able to serve. While aware of it's shortcomings, I'm also very aware of it's strengths.
With practice even mine with the amazingly small grip can be fired with some degree of accuracy at speed. It's muscle memory, just like anything else.
For those occasions, I'm awfully thankful for the function it is able to serve. While aware of it's shortcomings, I'm also very aware of it's strengths.
With practice even mine with the amazingly small grip can be fired with some degree of accuracy at speed. It's muscle memory, just like anything else.
JFrame
Member
Folks over at Rimfirecentral are reporting on the Hornady Short Barrel .22 magnum round. Their independent tests seem to be confirming Hornady's own internal tests on ballistic gelatin -- that they produce wound channels about an inch shorter and only slightly narrower than a .380 defensive round.
Of course, we have to take gelatin tests FWIW -- but it does seem to provide another interesting avenue for .22 mags as BUG (or, by necessity, primary) guns...Not that I'd care to be hit with a CCI Maxi Mag either...
.
Of course, we have to take gelatin tests FWIW -- but it does seem to provide another interesting avenue for .22 mags as BUG (or, by necessity, primary) guns...Not that I'd care to be hit with a CCI Maxi Mag either...
.
- Status
