Navy Seals .357 Magnum

[Texasred]

Okay, obviously nobody can pick up on my sarcasm. I was looking into the navy, and the SEALs has a neat little webpage that is free to the public. But the second question still stands.

Can't they only use FMJ ammunition?

What good is FMJ ammo in a .357? or any handgun?

 

[kdstrick]

Back to the OP... I found this on the web which does confirm that SEALS use the 357 mag.

http://www.navysealmuseum.com/heritage/armory/hkp9s.php

It says...

Smith & Wesson .357 Handgun

Revolver/pocket artillery. Although no longer a military issue item the S&W 357 is still used by the Special Forces when that immediate stopping power is required. This heavy revolver is guaranteed to fall any assailant with a hit to any part of the body (ouch!). SEAL operators like this weapon for it's stainless construction, which prevents rusting if submerged (a common occurrence in the Teams!)

Of course, I'm not in total agreement that it is "...guaranteed to fall any assailant with a hit to any part of the body (ouch!)" LOL! Does that include finger-shots......

 

[msiley]

In the book "Warrior Soul" by ex-Navy Seal Chuck Pfarrer he said one of his
crew used a .44 Magnum Ruger Black Hawk.

 

[dfariswheel]

The most current (and best look) book at just what it takes to be a modern SEAL is former SEAL commander Dick Couch's book, "The Finishing School"

This is a non-classified look at just what it does take today to get from a SEAL volunteer to a "deployable SEAL".
It takes about 36 months and after reading it, you'll seriously wonder just how ANY mortal human can do all that.

There is some surprising information about just how far they shoot the M4 carbine, and that there are "break points" where you have to do something simple sounding or get washed out.
I found it almost shocking that they wash out people just weeks from finishing training if they fail a single run with gear that they've done many times before.
The information on the not-expected type of hand-to-hand combat is very surprising and the amount of ammo expended is amazing.

Finish all that super-human training and get sent to a Team....and you're STILL not a SEAL until they polish you.

One of the better reads on the modern SEAL.

http://www.amazon.com/Finishing-Sch...=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254789720&sr=1-3

 

[45XDC]

Having been deployed with the Teams several times ( NOPE, I'M Not A SEAL!) I can honestly attest to only actually seeing one of them carrying a revolver in my more than 24 yrs of active duty. It was in 1991 and the operator was an old Pot Bellied Master Chief.... I was at an overseas small arms range shooting with them when he whipped it out. I was a young sailor at that time but I can still remember the conversation we had regarding that stainless 357. He looked me in the eye and replied after I inquired about how he liked it- I don't know, I haven't killed anyone with this one yet- an obvious indication at the time that he was an experienced operator. Long story short; yes they did carry 357's or at least one SEAL operator did. As best I recall his appearance was a little out of standards but I would not have thought of messing with that old bastard.

 

[Monster Zero]

Not to hijack the thread, but what about the not expected hand to hand combat? What do they do?

Just curious...

 

[45XDC]

The mission drives the gear carried. Their senior leadership picks the right tools for the job. They do not use a screw driver to hammer nails, if you know what I mean. Some situations call for a big bang, while others call for suppressed weapons. All are trained in hand to hand tactics and a wide variety of not so nosey ways to "F" someone up.

 

[Texasred]

I didn't ask about SEALs training (no offense!). I was just asking about the gun and ammunition. What kind of ammunition do they carry.

 

[dfariswheel]

Not to hijack the thread, but what about the not expected hand to hand combat? What do they do?


Its been a while since I read the book, but they do get actual hand-to-hand which as I recall is a SEAL blend of a Korean art.

However, the real training is done at a private training school that teaches a blend of weapons and physical that's intended to train the SEAL on how to DOMINATE a situation, whatever it is.

I can't remember the name of the school owner, but he teaches a method that allows a SEAL to dominate a situation, not just thump on someone.
This is an escalating system that teaches response depending on the situation.
As example, the situation might start off with putting someone down on the ground, and if they don't stop resisting, it might be followed with a bullet.
The training is intended to allow a SEAL to simply intimidate people as the situation requires in a sort of "Alfa-male" manner that causes people to NOT resist or not be able to resist effectively.

One part of the course is having the trainee standing in a room with a hood over his face.
When the hood is jerked off, he's faced with a situation involving anything from 1 to 3 or more people.
He has to access the situation and deal with it appropriately, whether its saying "Good Morning" to them to "dealing with them" physically.
Trainees come out of the course rather badly bruised.

Answering the perennial question on "who'd win in a barroom fight, the SEAL or ???", probably the SEAL, because he'd respond with whatever his training indicated was the right response from walking away to killing.

However, the SEALs don't spend that much time on hand-to-hand training because they believe that shooting people is better than engaging in a physical brawl.
Individual SEALs do often go out for some martial arts training.

 

[dfariswheel]

I didn't ask about SEALs training (no offense!). I was just asking about the gun and ammunition. What kind of ammunition do they carry.

Depends on the situation.
Ammo can vary from straight military issue full metal jacket to modern hollow point defense ammo, to God knows what secret specialty ammo.
Usually, the ammo is in the same calibers the regular military use: 9mm, .45ACP, 5.56, .7.62, etc.

For special situations, they can and do use just about any caliber you can name. They are known to use .357, 5.45x39, 7.62x39, .50 M2, and reportedly are experimenting with a 20mm ultra-long range weapon.

Since SEALs often deal with terrorists, the normal Hague Convention rules on non-expanding ammo don't apply when dealing with them. For normal situations special ops use the same ammo that regular military units use.
When dealing with terrorist, all bets are off.

So, what gun and ammo: That depends on the circumstances. The SEALs and other special ops units are allowed to use whatever they think they need in any given situation, depending on who the targets are.
The guns and ammo have and do vary widely from time to time and from situation to situation.

It appears that the "standard" SEAL guns are the SIG 9mm pistol and the Colt M4 Carbine.

 

[L-Frame]

The ammo use is amazing. Delta Force only has around 400 guys total and their monthly ammo use is in the millions.

 

[HorseSoldier]

I can't remember the name of the school owner, but he teaches a method that allows a SEAL to dominate a situation, not just thump on someone.

I believe you're talking about Duane Dieter? He's been tied in pretty tight with the SEAL community, training-wise, for a long time.

I've heard guys much better than me at combatives sort of stuff say his stuff is good, and equally qualified guys say his stuff is bad, but I suspect that shy of Olympic level hand to hand grudge matches, it's all angels dancing on the head of a pin sort of debate.

I do think the hood and react drill sounds like an absolute meat grinder (mentally and physically).

 

[HorseSoldier]

What good is FMJ ammo in a .357? or any handgun?

As has already been said, for certain mission sets certain SOF units (but not all SOF units, including not all SEAL/NSW units) may have latitude on ammunition selection.

Also, FMJ from a 357 Magnum certainly isn't going to put a spring in anybody's step and make them feel better about the world . . .

 

[MCgunner]

You might as well try to get into the NBA with bad hips.

Probably could if you could shoot 30 for 30 every night from mid court or in, never miss a shot.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Also, FMJ from a 357 Magnum certainly isn't going to put a spring in anybody's step and make them feel better about the world . .

Now that's quotable!

 

[PA Freedom]

FWIW, I think it's great that the double action wheelgun is still seeing at least SOME action!

 

[DougDubya]

However, the SEALs don't spend that much time on hand-to-hand training because they believe that shooting people is better than engaging in a physical brawl.
Individual SEALs do often go out for some martial arts training.

Reminds me of a great bit of SEAL back history: Chief James "Patches" Watson had been asked to design a "combat" knife, but his experience with knives in the field was for opening crates and sealed supplies. When it came time to fight people, he just shot them.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Is the SEAL Blitz what you are talking about? Read about it in Defensive Living by Ed Lovette and Dave Sapulding.

Yeah, dominating a situation. I dont think they use this exact technique anymore though but it pioneered the whole "be a master at hand to hand combat without years of martial arts training" thing.

 

[JShirley]

Special Forces

Special Forces are Army -------------------------->.<------------------(This is a period). You would think an authoritative site would know better.

 

[Dogbite]

Yeah, you ever watch Buds training...Ugly.

 

[rhoggman]

Same with Army Special Forces.... They have about every weapon you can think of available for use in the arms rooms. Does not mean they all get used extensively. This day in age I doubt there is much use for a revolver; however that does not mean one would not be useful in certain situations.

One more comment... I know SEALs work hard to get where they are. I would never take away from that. But your chances are much better at becoming a SEAL than getting into he NBA. I would also like to mention there are harder programs to get into. Often I think people watch a little too much TV. Is it difficult? Without question, yes! Do you have to be on par with Bruce Willis.... no. No one is. Jack Bauer is a figment of your imagination.

A comment about wars.... Do you think the politicians and contracting firms want to win wars? I spent 1.5 years in Iraq. It might not be an everlasting empire, but when the fences come down and the money stops pouring in an empire will fall. I believe if the majority of the American public knew how the war was being "fought", they would soon think it was all a sham. Politicians and the State Department are ensuring there is no victory. Modern politics combined with modern ROE are carefully crafted rules that prolong the process. The enemies are protected, some to a greater degree than you could ever imagine. It is ridiculous. JMHO

 

[Sheldon]

Thought I read somewhere they used the S&W 681, which is the fixed sight version of the S&W 686.

 

[Kernel]

Politicians and the State Department are ensuring there is no victory.

Great. Vietnam all over again.

 

[texagun]

deleted

 

[Sullyman]

Seal

Sorry to be off topic.
A friend of mine was a Seal. I knew him for 10 years before I found out. His wife told me and she did not know for several years after they were married.

He doesn't talk much about it. A few comments about being in a country near the Carribean and other places he can't discuss. He lost some teammates. He said he was "young, dumb and full of C%&). He did say he has never been so cold in his life as he was during BUDs. When the topic of Seals comes up you can see him stare into space, replaying something in his mind.

Anyway I digress, when I see next him I'll ask what he carried.