Need Advice

[Werewolf]

I recently got a new job.

My last employer had a policy against weapons on site. The company didn't really enforce it so my standard method of carry which is IWB (normally a CZ-75B SA) worked well enough. No one ever made me as far as I know and if they did they didn't say anything and to be honest I wouldn't have expected them to.

But my new employer is positively freaky. Just bringing a weapon (any weapon - even a pocket knife) on site makes one guilty of Work Place Violence. When during an interview with the HR weenie I mentioned (on purpose) that I was a competition shooter he said and I quote exactly - OH MY GOD! Don't bring it here!. I kid you not this guy totally freaked. Couldn't believe that firearms and especially handguns were my hobby. I calmed him down with a "huh? what the hell would I bring a gun to work for? only a whacked out right wing gun nut would do something like that", comment which got him started on his anti-gun speech.

Anyway - I carry at work. Screw 'em. No job is worth risking my life (no matter how remote the risk might be) for. And I don't have any problem finding a new employer and have enough money that if I didn't the world wouldn't come to an end and the sun would still rise tomorrow.

Still - there's no point in taking unnecessary risks just to make a point or doing anything that might jepordize my new position. For the first time in years (really - a lot of years) I'm actually having fun at work and am experiencing a challenge to perform that I never imagined I'd experience again. In short I really like this job and don't want to lose it over something stupid like getting made by a freakin' pussy sheep.

I'm currently carrying a S&W 638 in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster. It does the job well enough (sheep are blind after all) but I'd really like a pocket holster that doesn't print quite like the Uncle Mike's does. Something leather, something that stays in the pocket on the draw, something that doesn't print and looks like a wallet or some other innocuous thing in my front pocket.

I've done the google thing and didn't find what I was looking for. Maybe a pocket isn't the way to go. Maybe a shoulder holster under my shirt or one of those deep concealment t-shirt with holster built in things? Though I'd really like to stick with a pocket holster - comfortable, quick access - well - you guys know...

Any suggestions?

 

[Preacherman]

Yes - either find another job, or stop carrying.

Think about this. You're in a job you enjoy, and apparently doing well. One day, purely by chance, someone "makes" you as a carrier, and tells the boss. You're fired on the spot, and would have no chance of fighting it, based on the conversation you report.

From then onward, anyone doing a check on your previous employment is likely to be told "He was fired for bringing a gun to work". What does that say about you - particularly to "sheeple" who don't understand the self-defence ethos? It says you were about to "go postal", and that the company was lucky enough to find out and fire you before anything went too badly wrong. What makes you think any other company will want to have you on staff with something like that hanging over your head?

 

[V4Vendetta]

This is just my opinion. Find a new job. As you said no job is worth risking your life. I agree with Preacherman that if the company fires you because someone sees it, people afterwards will probably only hear the company's position. "He brought a gun to work & we caught him. Thank goodness he didn't shoot anybody." I read that your previous employer didn't worry to much about it. Why don't you go back to that?

 

[Lou629]

Proportions...

This may or may not sit well with your ideas, but it's only a thought for you to consider, not flaming you here.
If i were in your position, i think i'd be asking myself what my true risks were in being un-armed in the office, vs. keeping a job that was everything i wanted and needed in a job, as this one apparently is to you. Most of us that have carried at one point or another have never had to even think about actually going for the gun. If this has been your experience up till now, then you might want to ask yourself if you feel that you'll really be @ a significantly higher risk without the thing with you while in your office, vs. what this job is worth to you in terms of job satisfaction & money. Then compare the two in proportion, and see if the one offsets the other enough to make it worth going without one or the other.

 

[MrTwigg]

Took a look at your profile.

As a "Financial Analyst " you should be well suited to go out on your own. Or at least do enough freelance work to only have to work part-time for others. Yeah, you'll give up the security of a regular paycheck but with a little creative budgeting you'll be able to greatly improve your quality of life.

I did something similar to this years ago and stopped having to eat **it for a living. Now I pretty much do as I please, and I'm much happier because of it.

 

[Werewolf]

MrTwigg - going out on my own is indeed an option and one I exercised a few years back (day traded - loved it). My wife however isn't the healthiest lady in the world and getting private health insurance is so expensive (just for her the premium is well over $10K/year) as to be for all practical purposes unavailable. The same isn't true for employer provided health insurance as long as one maintains continuous coverage.

So self employment isn't really an option now without a high risk of going bankrupt due to the potential for catastrophically high medical bills.

Lou629 - you made some very good points. The risk of not carrying is low but not non-existent. The site is a modern and beautiful building in an older and more run down part of town. The building is locked down. Carrying there is more a psychological thing than a real necessity. I carry because I truly believe it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. After carrying for so many years I feel funny when I'm not packing these days.

Sometimes though we have to make choices and weigh risks. Right now it appears that I'll probably just leave the piece locked up in the car rather than carry it on site.

If for some reason my employer ever wants to search my car (highly unlikely) I'll just tell 'em to pack it and resign on the spot if they insist. That's as much compromise as I'm willing to make at this point in my life.

Thanks for the advice and comments guys - it helped.

 

[ctdonath]

I just started working somewhere too, and was quick to look in the employee handbook. Yup, no firearms - not even questionably worded as with prior employer.

The issue does come down to: there IS risk in life. Period. Balance the risks. Frankly, at least where I am (locked doors, card access), non-carry at work is a much lesser risk than losing the job. Heck, just driving to work is a far higher risk to me. Fact is, sometimes you just can't carry. Do what you can to make it happen, and mount a safe in the car for that option, but choose risks and mitigations wisely.

Of course, guns aren't the only way to defend yourself. Study enough martial arts (with and without tools) and the need for a particular weapon is significantly lessened.

... and concealed means concealed ...

 

[V4Vendetta]

"Study enough martial arts (with and without tools) and the need for a particular weapon is significantly lessened."


You may mean well but I must disagree. I'd much rather have a G19 than a pencil. Your average person is not built like Chuck Norris or John Wayne so they need guns to defend themselves. Not trying to flame you though.

 

[Mulliga]

You might need a new gun. A 638 certainly is easy to carry, but I've never found a J-frame to be a deep-concealment gun - there's always going to be a decent-sized bulge in your pocket, especially when you sit. Honestly, the biggest/thickest gun you can get today that still looks like a wallet when in a pocket holster is a P3AT/Rohrbaugh-sized gun - anything bigger is out in my experience.

Is this no-firearms thing actual company policy?

 

[ctdonath]

V, you deeply misunderstand.

Too many people get locked into a particular weapon. Yes, a G19 is preferable to a pencil - but can you effectively wield a pencil should you not have a G19 handy? Certainly try to have the best weapons at hand, but realize that sometimes you can't! Carry what you can, yet be trained to press practically anything into use effectively.

This thread is about CCW at work. Faced with the unlikely need for a firearm at work (most are orders of magnitude more likely to die getting to work than being there), and the severe impact of being fired for cause (most employers don't tolerate armed employees) being far more likely, non-carry at work is the prudent decision for some. That doesn't mean they be totally disarmed. Some tools will serve admirably, and much on one's desk can be pressed into service IF one has studied enough to be proficient in, pardon my term, meta-weapons.

Locking yourself into one (or a few) weapon is insufficient. Airports, courthouses, showers, etc. - being less- or un-armed happens; be ready to cope with what you've got.

 

[ctdonath]

Is this no-firearms thing actual company policy?

Right there in the company handbook for most businesses.

 

[vynx]

A Financial Analyst huh, I've been called that myself for the last 20 years or so.

I work in the health care field and most of those places do not allow firearms anywhere near work. Don't want to reduce visists to the RE do ya? Plus, they are over-populated with so called "politically correct liberal types".

I carry a folding knife everyday though and even the rabid anti-gun types don't seem to upset about it. One lady was like "why do you need to carry a knife"? (with attitude) It worked out great I said so I can lend it to you to scrape those old labels off that file cabinet - which was what she was doing at the time.

Pepper spray might be another option.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[hso]

Are they the only company in the building or do they own the property? Is the parking lot only for use of your employer's employees? Is the parking lot gated? If the answer to these questions is YES then they control the parking lot and it is part of their location. If the answer is that they are not the only employer in the building and they do not own the property then they have no right to look into your vehicle for any reason.

If there are access controls into the building or your part of the building then you are much less at risk than out in the world. Add the welfare of your wife (that is why you have the job to get the insurance to care for her) to the equation and the job becomes dear with little risk of needing to defend yourself.

V4,

I hardly look like Chuck Norris, but I don't delude myself into thinking that the only solution to every potentially violent encounter is a gun, so I train. I drag my short, fat, creaky knee'd nearly 50 year old carcass out and work on trying to make sure that I'm never dependent on using the "Nuclear Option" of a handgun as my only optoin regardless of what life throws at me. On top of that, when trouble comes to you it usually comes unannounced and quick. So quick you may not have time to draw. That's been my personal experience and each time it wasn't the magic talisman of a gun that saved my saggy bottom, but the time I put in and the sweat and bruises I invested that have allowed me to walk away safe. I'd rather have the right tools for the job than only have a hammer when it comes time to fix the drywall. Empty hand, knife, cane, stick, gun they're all tools to allow you to walk away safe.

 

[Shotgun12]

Sometimes though we have to make choices and weigh risks. Right now it appears that I'll probably just leave the piece locked up in the car rather than carry it on site.

Excellent decision. I'd just find a good, deep cover "safe-place" in your vehicle, and leave it out there. You know how tuff it is to find a job these days .... especially a decent one. Wouldn't want to risk loosin' it .... and end up shoveling s**t over at the stock-yard.
You might consider some type of fixed blade knife to CC, (maybe a boot, or shoulder type rig) to make you feel just a bit safer - better than nothin'.
Gotta do, what you gotta do.

 

[V4Vendetta]

" I'd rather have the right tools for the job than only have a hammer when it comes time to fix the drywall. Empty hand, knife, cane, stick, gun they're all tools to allow you to walk away safe."


No argument. I'm not saying that canes & hands aren't decent weapons should the need arise, but a gun is SO much better for the average joe. I don't have the time to go to a gym so I use a treadmill at home & I ride bikes. But I'm still not in very good shape. A pistol would be my best bet in a fight. A bat or cane is a close second.

 

[loadedround]

Loved your post and i worked under the same conditions plus mostly a female office. Thats why I never left home without my Seecamp 32 in a side pocket holster. Look like a wallet and never had it questioned and everyone knew I was shooter...well screw 'em, retired now.

 

[MathurinKerbouchard]

Frankly, i think an office environment is a good one for pepper spray. No wind or breeze to blow it back at you. My company has a no gun policy at work too. I almost always carry a vial of pepper spray that looks exactly like fountain pen in my front shirt pocket. i've been doing this for quite some time now. i haven't been made. i will often carry another pen in that same pocket in case somebody asks to borrow a pen, i can hand them the real one.

Consider too, escape routes, or places to hide if something goes bad. If i have enough warning, i can probably escape, but if not, I think i can fit into the coat closet in the cabinets of my cubicle (I'm 5'5" 130 lbs slightly built). by the time the bad guy comes around the corner, hopefully, it will look like i already left.

I'd rather have my P3AT with me, but with spray, a decent folding knife, and a plan, i feel fairly well prepared, for most eventualities.

 

[Third_Rail]

NAA mini revolver. Smaller than you'd think.

 

[BedPimp]

Become a big baseball fan. Keep a couple autographed balls and an autographed bat on display at your desk. Maybe get a box cutter to keep in your drawer, too. Home Depot has a folding knife that takes box cutter blades for about $10. Pick up an insulated travel mug and keep it filled up with hot coffee when you wander around, to and from your car, etc. I live in Los Angeles, so I get to think about CCW options quite a bit. ;-)