Need load data for Walther PPQ

[preacherJohn]

I recently acquired a new Walther PPQ Q5 match pistol less than a week ago. I quickly found out how much it doesn't like my HP-38 3.9-4.0 gn ammo with 124gn plated FP's. They either stove pipe or FTE and hangs up on the ejector rather tightly. BTW, this is in 9mm. My Sig will eat this ammo up and so will my wife's XDE. It will however shoot the cheapest factory loads I have in the Tulammo brass 115's with no issue. Just wondering what the you other PPQ shooters are loading? Mine has the 5" barrel on it.

 

[mdi]

How many rounds on the new gun? Maybe need more "break in?". For stove pipes I normally up the powder charge a bit, mebbe .5 gr.?

 

[preacherJohn]

How many rounds on the new gun?

Hmmm, about 2 mags worth, LOL. I haven't had this gun a week yet. I'll definitely will have to increase the load or create a new one with a different powder; hence this post. It did function OK on the "el-cheapo" stuff.

 

[LiveLife]

It's likely stiffer recoil spring of a new pistol is not allowing the slide to travel back far and fast enough to slam the spent case against the ejector to properly eject the spent case (hence the stove pipe or FTE). The fact that factory ammo works fine confirms this. Your Sig and wife's XD-E may have sufficiently broken-in/worn recoil spring with lower spring rate to allow full slide cycling with the same load.

Other reloading variables to consider are sizing of the bullet, groove diameter of the barrel and OAL/bullet seating depth. If the plated bullet you are using is .355" sized, you will likely need to use more powder than .356" sized bullet - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...re-sized-the-same.818806/page-2#post-10567453

Compare the following load data from Hodgdon and notice 3.9 gr start charges are for larger .356" sized bullets:

- 124 gr Berry's HBRN-TP W231/HP-38 Dia .356" COL 1.150" Start 3.9 gr (920 fps) 27,400 PSI - Max 4.4 gr (1,037 fps) 31,900 PSI
- 125 gr Lead Cone Nose W231/HP-38 Dia .356" COL 1.125" Start 3.9 gr (1,009 fps) 25,700 CUP - Max 4.4 gr (1,086 fps) 31,200 CUP
- 125 gr Sierra FMJ RN W231/HP-38 Dia .355" COL 1.090" Start 4.4 gr (1,009 fps) 24,600 CUP - Max 4.8 gr (1,088 fps) 28,800 CUP

Try bumping up the powder charge. My guess is 4.2-4.3 gr may start to work to reliably cycle the slide of your PPQ.

 

[otisrush]

I have a 5" PPQ in 9mm.

My standard FMJ load is 4.0gr of HP-38 with a Zero Bullets 124gr bullet.

I've virtually never had issues with stovepiping, unreliable cycling, etc. I've had pretty significant challenges, however, getting a COL that passes the plunk test with this bullet. I think the profile of this bullet is fat and squatty, so I have to go quite short. I load that 4.0gr load to 1.090" COL. So maybe that short COL is generating a good amount of pressure so I haven't seen the issues you have.

I've also shot Zero's 115gr JHP with no problems whatsoever. For that load I'm using 4.5gr of HP-38.

 

[LiveLife]

FYI, Zero bullets I have are sized larger at .356" and would explain why 4.0 gr of HP-38 would work.

Also, using shorter OAL/deeper bullet seating depth will increase chamber pressure.

If using .355" sized bullet with longer OAL, 4.0 gr may not reliably cycle a new pistol with stiff recoil spring.

Perhaps after break-in, PPQ will cycle with 4.0 gr load.

 

[egd]

I have a 5" PPQ also. I shoot 231/hp38 at 4.2 at 1.135 with RN bullets. Take a marker and mark a bullet and then do a plunk test with it to see if it is touching the lands. As others have said the bullet profile can make a difference.

 

[Dudedog]

mebbe .5 gr.?

.05??

They may cycle after a few more rounds thru the gun but for now (and maybe later) I would just bump the load up .1gr at a time until I got function. .1 or .2gr should do it.
Another choice (handy if you have a bunch of loaded ammo) would be to seat the bullets a hair deeper say maybe .01 to .02 which will up the pressure and velocity a bit.
Depending on what OAL you are at now maybe a bit more.
Not a plated bullet (jacketed) but some numbers for a OAL change on a mild load using HP38. A hotter load would probably show much more pronounced changes.

5" 9mm 1911, very mixed range brass, S+B SP, charges as thrown after setting measure
( I had some steps in between 1.08 and 1.055 but this should give you an idea)
String: 1
Date: 7/23/2017
Time: 10:43:16 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1001
Low Vel: 970
Ave Vel: 987
Ext Spread: 31
Std Dev: 13
RMR 124 MPR JHP 4.3 HP38 1.08 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
970 120.28 259.04
992 123.008 270.923
1001 124.124 275.862
977 121.148 262.792
996 123.504 273.113


String: 2
Date: 10/29/2017
Time: 9:42:14 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1068
Low Vel: 1004
Ave Vel: 1034
Ext Spread: 64
Std Dev: 24
RMR 124 MPR JHP 4.3 HP38 1.055 OAL
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1046 129.704 301.222
1021 126.604 286.995
1004 124.496 277.518 This one and the one below sort of averaged each other out, possible a bit light here and a bit heavy on the next one. But they messed up the ES and SD
1068 132.432 314.026
1034 128.216 294.35

So with this mild load .025 deeper was about 40 fps, YMMV.

 

[preacherJohn]

Thanks for all the replies. I see I neglected to mention the COL. I'm using the Xtreme 124FP's (they measured .355 the last time I checked), 3.9-4.0gr HP-38, with a 1.06 COL. I checked the "kerplunk" before I ever fired the pistol, and it makes a good, noisy "KERPLUNK" and the bullet drops out of the barrel with ease. I don't know if I should go any shorter, but maybe step up the load a tad. And I probably have about 300 rounds of this ammo already loaded, but I do have other pistols that shoot it easily. The new spring as mentioned is probably my culprit, although I was a tad concerned about how it hung up so tight on the ejector rod that I had to wiggle it back and forth to get the case off of it.

 

[Rule3]

Did you clean and lube the gun first?

With a empty gun and no magazine, manually cycle the slide at least 100 times or more. Leave the slide locked back overnight or a day or so,

Then load some ammo with a higher charge of your HP 38/Win 231, It's to light.

 

[preacherJohn]

Did you clean and lube the gun first?

Yes, I used the Hornady clean and lube, plus a little gun grease on the slide. I never thought about leaving the slide open. Reminds me of loading up all the mags to ease the spring tension on them.

I ordered some new trigger springs to reduce the trigger pull a little bit from Springco yesterday. The trigger is pretty good, but the Powder River trigger kit I stuck in my .45 XDM still has it beat.

 

[higgite]

Sounds like you may just need to work up a load for the new gun. Or maybe just shoot a couple hundred rounds of the cheap factory ammo to break it in and try your load again. Either way will be fun.

FWIW, I have loaded 124gr Xtreme plated FPs in the past and settled on 4.4gr of W231 or HP-38 at 1.065” COL. Like others have said, you might try bumping up the charge weight little by little.

 

[egd]

I put the Apex trigger in mine. It did wonders for the ppq.

 

[mdi]

Before I condemned any ammo or the gun, I'd run a couple hundred rounds through it. Factory ammo would be OK, although costly. Mebbe some imported El Chepo stuff just for break in? Or decent ammo and save the brass...

 

[preacherJohn]

I have loaded 124gr Xtreme plated FPs in the past and settled on 4.4gr of W231 or HP-38 at 1.065” COL.

I've used your same load before in my other 9's. The ones I have now is because I wanted something with wimpy recoil, LOL.

I put the Apex trigger in mine. It did wonders for the ppq.

I bet it cost you more then $20 bucks. I do have an Apex sear in my Shield though.

Before I condemned any ammo or the gun

No condemnation; just curious what others are loading for this specific gun. I've actually wanted a PPQ for a long time and waited what seemed like eons for it to come back in stock at a reasonable price besides what Cabela's was selling them for.

 

[Rule3]

Please do not make it more difficult or complicated than need be.

From what you have posted you have a LIGHT load in a new gun with a STIFF spring.

Run some factory ammo through it. MagTech, SB, Federal whatever, Does it work??

Up the load to more like 4.5 gr and cycle the slide,

 

[Blue68f100]

^^^^ Yes you just need to break the gun in, 300-500 rounds is the normal. At that time you may or may not need to change your load. But the Walters I've been around have required a near std load. So you may need to bump up the charge or go to a heavier bullet if you want mouse fart loads.

Locking the slide back will not do anything to the spring, it's the cycling that works/wear them.

 

[preacherJohn]

Guess I'll save my "mouse-farts" for my other 9mm's. I'm pretty accustomed to shooting .40 and .45acp anyway, so the 9's already feel pretty cushion-y. I guess I'm just like anyone else trying to fing that "slight" advantage on the curve. Tight groups and less muzzle flip is desirable. I have an array of other powders except maybe the newer ones that I might try out with this gun also. An RMR might be finding it's way on here soon too.

The weather is finally getting nicer here too, so it is getting time to start really tearing up some targets. Shouldn't take too long to expend 500 rounds; depending on the arthritis flare ups in my wrist.

 

[preacherJohn]

The gun shot pretty good with the Federal 115's today; no hiccups. Not too bad shooting off-hand for a new gun. I sure wished I could see better though.

 

[Blue68f100]

That's why they make Dot Sights and optics for.

 

[preacherJohn]

That's why they make Dot Sights and optics for.

I bought this gun with that in mind; not sure what I want to put on it. I like the RMR, but it's pricey. And then I'm not sure if I pay that kind of money if I would like the 6.5MOA. I could use a little guidance on this decision.

 

[Blue68f100]

I'm using the C-more STS on my 1911. It has a 3 moa dot, and glass lens, (most are plastic), aluminum body. The newer models have an adjustable brightness control which I prefer. Most all over drive the dot/laser when your not in bright sun light. Controlling the brightness you can make the dot smaller. I normally cover the light sensor up with black electrical tape to cut them back.

 

[preacherJohn]

C-more STS

I looked at this and Optic Planet said they discontinued this model. The other ones they recommended looked a lot larger then I would prefer. I'd like to have something pretty low and use one of the 3 mounts that came with the PPQ.

 

[meesterdon]

124 grain X-treme round nose copper plated over 4.0 of HP-38/ W231 is this Walthers favorite plinking load. I think you need to give yours a chance to break in.

 

[Gottcha]

I load RMR 124gr plated rn and RMR jhp @ 4.4gr w231 and get good accuracy. With my PPQ 4inch I can shoot 4.0gr w321 and have gone up to 4.6gr but accuracy for me is at 4.4gr. COL for the rn is 1.150 and for the jhp it's 1.090 to 1.010 (didn't seem to make a difference) so I load @1.010 now.