Nef pardner pump quality

[Snarlingiron]

Interesting. You can get the exact same responses when you bring up Turkish guns.

"Buy American."
"Anything from Turkey is junk."
"Save up another $1000.00 and get a good O/U."
Etc., Etc.

However, I can tell you that there are some darned nice Turkish shotguns for not much money. The argument about how long they hold up... well, for example, I have a Yildiz 12 ga O/U. Works very well so far (about 500 rounds), and for what a Browning Cynergy costs, I can buy and wear out 5 Yildiz's. Doubt I will last that long, though.

With all that said, I have a 60's era Wingmaster 20 ga, that is a thing of beauty and a work of art. I have 2 870 Express's. I don't have a Chinese shotgun, or a Chinese made gun of any kind. Not any kind of statement or anything, I just haven't run into one that fit my needs. I also have a Remington 11-87, a Stoeger M2000, a Browning A5, a Remington 11, a Beretta A390, and a Spanish SxS double. Nothing wrong with any of them, even though some are made in Spain, Turkey, Italy, Belgum and even the good ol' USA.

No getting around it, we live in a global economy whether we like it or not. There are fine products made all over the world just as there is pure junk made all over the world, including the good ol' USA.

You pays your money, and you takes your choice.

 

[MAX100]

There are so many on THR that love to only talk about the Remington 870. There should be a new Forum started called the 870 Shotgun Forum.

There are some members on THR that would like to know about some of the new shotguns coming out. It is very hard to get any info on them here because of so many die hard Remington owners. They simple don't have any experience with any of the new imported shotguns and frankly don't like them. Their response is: "get a Remington or a shotgun that has been around and tested overtime". These responses tend to drive people away because they would like to get an answer on the shotgun they made a thread post on. They will go to other forums for the answer. I for one would like to add more members not drive them away.



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[rbernie]

There are some members on THR that would like to know about some of the new shotguns coming out. It is very hard to get any info on them here because of so many die hard Remington owners. They simple don't have any experience with any of the new imported shotguns and frankly don't like them. Their response is: "get a Remington or a shotgun that has been around and tested overtime". These responses tend to drive people away because they would like to get an answer on the shotgun they made a thread post on.

Oh, freakin' spare me. The vast preponderance of threads in this forum have ZERO to do with the 870. Of the last fifty threads in this forum, only three (3) were arguably 870-centric. Right now, as we type, there are more active Ithaca 37 threads than 870 threads. If you wanna complain, at least do so from a position of fact.

You just don't like the fact that you are enamored of a Chinese 870 copy and many folk on this forum are not interested in a copy when the original is still available.

More specifically, how is the below, provided two posts prior, not an adequate answer?

Yesterday, I went to Academy Sports and my local gunshops and looked at shotguns. The NEF pump at Academy was $180 + tax. A low-miles 870 Express Magnum at the gunshop was $190 + tax. Even taking the potential quality control issue with ChiCom goods (lack of QA/QC relative to domestic manufacture) and setting it aside, the 870 represented a better value due to its superior fit-n-finish (and only a comparison with an NEF pump could make that true) and because it had features such as a vent rib that the NEF lacked.

That's the message. I do not dislike the NEF. I just think that, in the long run, I can do better with an 870.

You may not LIKE the response I provided, but it's a viable response that took nothing away from the NEF but put it in context with a competitor product. That response may fail to meet your specific needs, but it's a viable comparison. I also note that, rather than address it head-on, you choose instead to complain about the tenor of the forum in general.

I wonder if you'd be so concerned about member retention if the thread had veered the other way..

 

[dewage83]

Hey I HAVE a pardener pump 20 ga. It came from the factory with a broken extractor. The factory quickly resolved the problem with out shipping or any other charges, and havent had a problem since. The broken from the factory thing REALLY made me wish I had bought another brand....I'm over it now and will probably buy a 500 just for the 12ga and because I would like to see the quality and compair. Any 500...(or 870 for that matter) I have cycled was much smoother than my pardner but live and learn. As was said "buy the best you can afford" and If you can afford a pardner I would say you could probably afford the 870 or 500; BUT I would not rule out the pardner. Also you could try maverick.

 

[MAX100]

Oh, freakin' spare me. The vast preponderance of threads in this forum have ZERO to do with the 870. Of the last fifty threads in this forum, only three (3) were arguably 870-centric. Right now, as we type, there are more active Ithaca 37 threads than 870 threads. If you wanna complain, at least do so from a position of fact.

Give me a break! It is not what the thread topic is about it is the responses in them. In 80% at least of the threads posted about a new "Imported" gun some one will say buy a Remington.

Yesterday, I went to Academy Sports and my local gunshops and looked at shotguns. The NEF pump at Academy was $180 + tax. A low-miles 870 Express Magnum at the gunshop was $190 + tax. Even taking the potential quality control issue with ChiCom goods (lack of QA/QC relative to domestic manufacture) and setting it aside, the 870 represented a better value due to its superior fit-n-finish (and only a comparison with an NEF pump could make that true) and because it had features such as a vent rib that the NEF lacked.

That's the message. I do not dislike the NEF. I just think that, in the long run, I can do better with an 870.

The thing that I find wrong with that post is your undertone, you always suggest getting an 870 and you have to throw in your racist remark "ChiCom". I am not saying you are racist but your remark is. It is a remark to belittle something you don't like. To make someone feel beneath you for buying a Chinese made 870 shotgun.

You will never see me suggest getting a Norinco 982 shotgun when someone ask about a Remington 870. Every time someone ask about a Chinese made 870 all you hear from the other side is get a 870 don't buy that ChiCom junk.


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[rbernie]

It is not what the thread topic is about it is the responses in them. In 80% at least of the threads posted about a new gun some one will say buy a Remington.

If the advice is invalid, show how it's invalid. If, on the other hand, the shoe fits, well then, the shoe fits. It's kinda like the 'buy Glock' club in the Handgun forums. They're vocal and omnipresent, but in general they're not usually WRONG in their advice. In many cases, Glock makes an adequate and serviceable weapon that has features and a history of demonstrated performance that set it apart from its peers in the marketplace and that would satisfy the stated needs of the OP. The Remington 870 would appear to hold a similar position in the repeater shotgun world, as do other repeaters.

When you have fact-based data upon which to suggest an alternative, you should do so. But you should make your points fact-based rather than opinions. Belittling values that others hold (for example, proven longevity) is no way to make your point.

The only thing that I find wrong with that post is your undertone and you have to throw in your racist remark "ChiCom". I am not saying you are racist but your remark is. It is a remark to belittle something you don't like. To make someone feel beneath you for buying a Chinese made 870 shotgun.

'ChiCom' is not a slur - it is a very accurate description.

Chinese Communist.

That's what they are, and how we differentiate the mainland Communist Chinese from, say, Taiwanese Chinese, both of whom represent themselves as Chinese.

It does not attempt to make fun of anyone based upon color, race, religious belief, or even political affiliation. It's accurately descriptive.

I would shudder to think that I might have actually offended anyone. But in this case, I feel you're reaching waaaay past reality, and doing so solely to make a point. You want to see a slur and a divisive elitist attitude, and so you do.

But it's just not really there.

 

[ArmedBear]

I personally would rather buy an 870 because an 870 isn't that expensive.

I can understand the temptation to buy a cheap Turkish O/U because it really is a lot cheaper than a good one. Most of them will not last, but hell, they're cheap, at least on the surface.

It is silly, however, to bash people who say, "Don't buy a Turkish gun" and speak from experience. That's doubly true when they say, "Get a Stoeger from Brazil instead. It will last a lot longer for the same price." It's not snobbery to relate what one has seen.

Still, given than an 870 is pretty cheap and has a lot of accessories readily available for it would influence me to buy it over the NEF. The 870 is NOT $1500. You just aren't "saving" that much money.

Now when Remington jacks up the price of a low-end 870 to 500 bucks, and I wouldn't put it past them, I'd probably change my mind. But as of now, I'd go with an 870 or a Mossberg 500, if only so I can get parts and accessories from many vendors for reasonable prices.

These are perfectly rational reasons for the choice. I have no particular emotional attachment to these guns. Hell, my 870 hasn't even been shot in over a year. It remains a good, utilitarian piece, though.

It seems that MAX100 is the one with "issues" here, not others.

 

[MAX100]

ArmedBear You made my point. The guy didn't ask about the Remington 870. He wants to know if the Pardner Pump is a good gun or not. You switched the subject to the 870. Can you answer the question "is the Pardner Pump a good gun"?

The Pardner Pump is not an 870 and the 870 is not a Pardner Pump.


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[ArmedBear]

The Pardner Pump is not an 870 and the 870 is not a Pardner Pump.

Uh, the Pardner Pump is essentially a Chinese copy of the 870, just like a BPS is essentially a Japanese Ithaca copy.

Relax, dude. I'm the last person who really cares about two cheap shotguns from the same holding company.

"Get the original version instead of the copy, for reasons XYZ, even for a bit more money" is not changing the subject. It's acknowledging that it's a worthwhile design.

If someone asks about an Ithaca 37 and someone responds "I'd get a Browning BPS instead; it's the same gun, well built, and with a tang safety that's easier to use", and someone else says, "Yeah, I like tang safeties, but the Browning is heavier and the Ithaca balances better", that's not changing the subject. It's a conversation. If someone responded, "Get a Benelli Montefeltro!" that would be changing the subject.

For that matter I joined an existing conversation; I didn't change the subject at hand.

 

[ladykilla]

"But... You're wondering why people would differentiate between an imported clone and a domestically produced break-top? Because one's imported and the other isn't would be a fair guess."

But your money is still going to the same place is it not?

Bottom line is this. The NEF PP is a good gun. In the year and a half I had mine not one hiccup. Everytime the department goes to the range (going tomorrow ) it goes with me and gets shot the entire time. I have no complaints. It is built well and has a nice finish. Mine has even been in the woods, running dogs and blasting rabbits. I was impressed with how well it did out there seeing I bought it for home defense. So if you are asking about a NEF PP and if I like it the answer is yes. I would recommend this weapon.

 

[md7]

when the chinese made pardner pump is a copy of the 870, then it is pretty much a guarantee that someone is gonna bring up the 870.

having handled the pard' pump, it was okay. if you get one, it will most likely go bang and send lead down the business end of the barrel.

so to answer the question is the pardner a good pump, the one i handled was. but being that IT IS a copy of an 870, and there is an unbelievable ammount of aftermarket support for the 870 that doesn't neccesarily extend to the pardner, i would have to agree with armed bear and say get an 870.

 

[MAX100]

I am always relaxed.


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[md7]

ladykilla, i bought an 18" bbl 870 last year just for rabbit hunting, and for running dogs(deer and rabbit). those 18" shotguns do a number on em don't they!

 

[MAX100]

The 870's now have a 18.5" bbl.


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[md7]

"The 870's now have a 18.5" bbl."

true enough. you get what i mean though pertaining to short barrels and fast moving critters.

 

[ladykilla]

Md7, they work pretty dang good on em. I honestly wasn't expecting much in that enviorment. I was suprised.

 

[MAX100]

Now that the 870 has a 18.5" bbl it is capable of 7+1 capacity with a after market tube ext that is even with the muzzle, like the 18.5" Pardner Pump. I fitted one of my tube ext, I make, to the 18.5" bbl 870 and it easily fits 7 rounds in the tube



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[Hawk]

But your money is still going to the same place is it not?

Personally, I'm probably more of a globalist than most but no, it doesn't all go to the same place. There were a number of people in Gardner Massachusetts that could explain it far better than I.

 

[MAX100]

Hawk
Quote:

Personally, I'm probably more of a globalist than most but no, it doesn't all go to the same place. There were a number of people in Gardner Massachusetts that could explain it far better than I.

It sounds like you are making excuses for Remington being part of the importation of Chinese firearms.


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[Hawk]

It sounds like you are making excuses for Remington being part of the importation of Chinese firearms.

Don't read between the lines.

I'm simply pointing out that money spent on a domestic break-top doesn't go to the same place as money spent on a Norinco imported by anyone. I'm replying to a post that appears to be addressing basic economics.

The portion that goes to North China Industries in the case of the pump would go to a plant in MA in the case of the break-top. Hence, it doesn't all go to the same place.

Remington can do as they please though some of it puzzles me. I'm a little less puzzled as it becomes clear that Remington barrels don't fit the Norinco. Hence the latter will appeal more to the "buy it and leave it" crowd as opposed to the "accessorize till you drop" crowd that Remington has had its toenails dug into.

 

[dewage83]

clear that Remington barrels don't fit the Norinco. Hence the latter will appeal more to the "buy it and leave it" crowd as opposed to the "accessorize till you drop"

Yes If you want to accessorize till you drop the pardener isnt the BEST. You can use mostly anything that fits the 870 with some exceptions. The pistol grip I bought didnt seem to fit just right, it went on and held but wobbled. I soon realized, put the original stock on it and leave it be. Im actually kind of upset I didnt get the wooden stock/forearm in retrospect

 

[MAX100]

dewage83
Yes If you want to accessorize till you drop the Pardener isn't the BEST. You can use mostly anything that fits the 870 with some exceptions. The pistol grip I bought didn't seem to fit just right, it went on and held but wobbled. I soon realized, put the original stock on it and leave it be. I'm actually kind of upset I didn't get the wooden stock/forearm in retrospect

Just about every 870 accessory will fit the Pardner Pump some my need a little modifying. You should investigate to see why things won't fit. In your case the pistol grip didn't fit well because the receiver stud on the Pardner Pump is a little longer than the one on a 870. You will need to screw the receiver stud out with wrench and use a grinder to take it down about 1/6". Then the pistol grip or any stock will fit flush with the receiver.

This is what I have on my Pardner Pump: Mesa Tactical stock adapter, SAW AR15 pistol grip, Hogue fore end, CAA AR15 adj stock, Laserlyte Tri-Rail mount, John Masen heat shield, one of my 7+1 tube extensions and I will have a King Armory Breacher/muzzle break barrel as soon as I get it back from King Armory. Everything is a very nice fit. I would call that "accessorize till you drop".




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[Hawk]

We have differing notions of "accessorize" - nothing whatsoever wrong with yours but, in the case of the 870, it can be totally transformed from a HD shotgun to a clays to whatever else by means of a barrel change and a few tweaks.

"Accessorizing" the Norinco doesn't really change it so much as it grants varying degrees of tacticality - but they're all essentially CQB or 3 gun. Quail is not in the equation.

Nothing wrong with varying degrees of tactical but I at least can picture why Remington wouldn't view the thing as actually diluting its core market - this is only conjecture on my part but I find it plausible.

Barrel shrouds (aka: shoulder things that go up in NYS), AR brick-a-brack, rails, pistol grips, Tri-rail this and Mesa tactical that do nothing to divert the thing from what it was when it first came out of the box. It simply can't morph from its short barrel tactical self into a multi-purpose field gun. Doesn't have to - one would have sufficient money left over to buy a field gun. Accessorizing from Tactical "A" to Tactical "B" seems pointless to me but to each their own.

 

[ArmedBear]

When people talk about the versatility of the 870, it means that they can use the same gun for HD, duck hunting, slug hunting, and trap, using a pile off-the-shelf parts that take a few seconds to change out, without the use of a bench grinder.

 

[MAX100]

Hawk Your mods which are fine are not accessorize to you drop. It is changing out a stock/barrel, adding a scope or a new sight. I am not a hunter or a skeet shooter I am more interested in the 3 gun match & tactical side of shotguns.

ArmedBear All of my post on Norinco 870 shotguns are about their tactical shotgun appeal. I have never commented on them as a hunting or a trap/skeet shotgun. I have very little if any experience in that area.

I wouldn't say taking a little metal off as anything out the the ordinary. Many new 870 & Pardner Pump shotguns need a little metal removed to slick the action up or make things fit well. Also many times accessories themselves need a few mods to fit well. I never consider any accessories I buy as a one size fits all on any guns.


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