New .223 autoloader?

[USGuns]

pistol grip, folding stock, etc.

If they had put in a pistol grip along with the folding stock then wouldn't it be classified as an "assault weapon" or some other silliness like that?

The Sub2000 may be short on looks but I love mine. A blast to shoot, almost no recoil, affordable to buy, shoots affordable 9mm ammo and is just about the perfect home-defense weapon. IMHO.

 

[starfuryzeta]

That thing does look like a mini-BAR.

 

[Soap]

Tell me if I'm wrong...but that thing can legally have a flash suppressor...

 

[Kaylee]

WOW.... now that is a cool idea. No pistol grip, since it's the ACTION that splits, it doesn't legally have a "folding stock".... jeez, they seemed to think of everything. A totally innocuous EBR.

And yes... it can legally have a flash suppressor. What delightful evil little geniueses they are. If they engineered the shooting part half as well as they engineered the "stick it to the man" bits, it should work pretty well.

I'll admit though, it's plumb ugly.

-K

 

[Felonious Monk]

Lotsa posts early in this thread commenting what a smart company Kel-Tec is...

I believe George Kelgren is the "mad genius" that's the catalyst for all of this innovation. Not only great design, but cojones grandes, too.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Trunk gun! Hopefully it does take the AR-15/M-16 magazine.

I doubt if gas system probably is gas impingment but more akin to the AK type action. If it's more accurate than the Mini-14, it'll be better for us Californians.

 

[Sactown]

It's ain't purty to these eyes, but if it's semi-auto and more accurate than a mini-14, sign me up. Not many choices here in Kali for semi-auto .223.

 

[Tamara]

If that thing takes AR mags, I am so going to buy one!

 

[JohnKSa]

Oh please don't let it be a dog.
Oh please don't let it be a dog.

Oh PLEEEEEESE, PLEEEEEEESE don't let it be a dog.

PS. And PLEEEEEESE let it take AR mags...

I'll be good all year, I promise.

 

[Steelharp]

Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want... Me want...

Did I say I wanted one?

Mikey D...

 

[Arkady]

No pistol grip means it can have a flash suppressor, right? Hehehe.

If that thing takes AR mags, and can hold a 3-4 inch group at 100 yards, it is soooo going in the trunk.

 

[Maddock]

It's BEEAUUUTTIIFFFUUULLL!
I want.
I hope the muzzle diameter is enough to thread on a flash suppressor and it has a 5.56 chamber instead of .223. This looks like it has great potential as a urban or patrol carbine.

 

[Jspy]

Looks like a good design as long as all of the bugs are worked out of it. The AR mags would seem like a no brainer, but......don't figure to be that lucky.

 

[firestar]

It doesn't look so bad. It kinds of reminds me of a Mini-14 in a way (kind of).

Like the caliber anyway.

 

[MLC]

Anyone else notice the similarities?

Other than one is scoped, one is bolt etc...

 

[Rocko]

Hrm, I don't think I like it. The folded package doesn't appear very compact to me - definitely doesn't use space as efficiently as the sub-2000. I guess the .223 has too much pressure to have the hinge in the breech area like the sub-2000. I'd rather them have done some sort of skeletonized top folder, but it looks like they have it fold to the bottom so you can keep your optics attached. Still, for what it is, I think I'd skip the optics anyways. The lack of PG is also disappointing - it looks like there is plenty of room there for one. Hopefully they will offer it as an option.

Also note that you can't have a mag in the gun when folded. Honeslty, I don't think this would be that much quicker to deploy than an AR-15 taken down into halves. I also agree that the bipod is pretty cheesy - looks like it is way too high for flat shooting while prone. Made for those guys who only shoot from a bench, I guess...

Seems like an odd time for them to develop such a product as well. Much of the interest in these folding rifles comes from the AWB and bad juju of folding stocks. I think there's a good chance the AWB will not be renewed, and thus such a folding rifle will basically be obsolete - a folding stock being much more useful, IMHO.

I also find it strange that they went with an 18" barrel, as opposed to 16" to save a couple of more inches. I wonder if the feds were giving them crap about the OAL when folded (notice it is the minimum OAL, 26") even though it can't shoot like that. Certainly the OAL of the sub-2000 when folded is under 26", though.

All in all, unless they can make these cheap (under $400), I don't see them selling to many.

Rocko

 

[pinetree64]

It's so ugly, I like it! I wonder about the durability of the front sight. I'd buy one if it took AR mags, was less then a Ruger and more accurate.

tjg

 

[vertigo7]

It's so fugly it's beautiful. If it does indeed take AR mags and works well in field trials by those who can get their greedy paws on one, I'm definitely buying one for myself.

vertigo7

 

[Hk Paul]

This seems to be like a good idea, but im not too sure about the quality. Prove me worng please, it is a genious idea!

 

[Flying V]

I need one of these to go with my boxful of AR mags.

 

[Oleg Volk]

I don't see a heat shield.
I do see decent sights.
Lack of pistol grip doesn't bother me -- conventional action point shoots better. Price will be the big point...if under $400, it will be pretty popular. Kel-Tec QC has been excellent lately, if my latest P32 is any indication.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Reminds me of a Saiga sporterized AK with a door hinge in the middle of it.

Still, it's a curious looking critter. I'd like a heavier barrel, maybe a flash-doohicky.

Why the heck would you use the number 16 in the name unless it took m-16 mags? Mightly sly folks over there at Kel-Tec.

I'd reserve the right to pass judgement until I shot one.

 

[762x51]

I agree with Dr. Rob. Reminds me of a Saiga. It sure aint pretty, but I haven't decided whether I love it or hate it.

 

[MonacanMan]

My take on Keltec products is they are a great buy for the money but if you buy anything that is in the first 5000 made you are part of the product testing group. They have excellent customer service and will fix any problems with their guns. I have the Sub2K and I like the way it looks and shoots. I'll be keeping my eye on their new guns.

 

[Zander]

Also note that you can't have a mag in the gun when folded.

Sure you can...there's a mag in the buttstock.

That'd be a proprietary mag; just a WAG that it's a ten-rounder.

Probably some sort of "safety" feature would prevent folding the rifle with one in the mag well, but if not, it wouldn't be necessary to snap the buttstock on the barrel. The extra space taken would be tiny.

Honeslty, I don't think this would be that much quicker to deploy than an AR-15 taken down into halves.

In a pressure situation? Let's see:

SU-16 ... unfold, *snap*, insert mag [stored loaded in buttstock], hit charging handle, BANG!.

AR-15 ... grab upper, grab lower, fiddle with getting the front pin lined-up, snap the front pin in, snap the rear pin in, insert mag [where is that mag?...mag pouch?], pull charging handle, BANG!

George Kelgren is a design genius and a perfectionist...if the SU-16 is in production, it's been tested and it works.

Can't wait to handle one...