DeepSouth
Random Guy
I don’t know about a fad but I used to go to church with a guy that had shoulder problems and had turkey hunted with a .410 for about 15 years. He was adamant that was all one needed.
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New Fad? Is a 410 for Turkeys real?
- Thread starter Captcurt
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tightgroup tiger
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That can't be a bad thing as far as I'm concerned. I take turkeys any day of the week over Canada geese.
I love wild turkey from the smoker, in stew on Grans biscuits. Yum!
I have no love for geese.
mcb
Member
From what I have seen from Tungsten shot I can believe it. Tungsten's density really makes a big difference to how the pellets fly and penetrate. Since we do not rely on shotgun pellets to expand it hard to find a better material then tungsten. Osmium if you ready to pay ~100 time more per round could eek us another 15-20% more density.
What I found said a #9 hevi shot equals a #6 lead. This means a 3/4 oz load approximates a 2 oz load.
My experience has been, a 1 1/4 oz load of 5 out patterns a 2 oz load at 40 yards because the shorter column doesn't blow the pattern.
I would think a 3/4 oz 12 ga load would out do the 410 one at distance.
Theoretically the 410 should equal the 12. So load your 12 with the same stuff and it's even better.
WestKentucky
Member
Reminds me of a very cold morning in which I heard a turkey gobble extremely close while I was in the shower after working night shift. Stepped out on the front porch, took a shot, went back to the shower. For a few seconds it was mighty chilly standing there getting a good sight picture...Turkeys are naughty birds!
Every morning fourty or fifty turkeys will make way from the river, as we wait for the school bus.
Yesterday they must have been feeling froggy. It was just over the swale, so I couldn’t see it, but I heard what sounded like a bunch of jerk turkeys sneaking up on a sleeping pair of Canadien geese, and beating the hell out of them!
Every turkey had been talking amongst themselves then it got quiet. Too quiet. Thirty seconds of silence. Then a ruckus broke out such that I haven’t heard before! Squawking, honking, gobbling and the crashing of wings! Sticks breaking, more honking and the flapping of the geese as they made a fly for it!
When the kids left I hopped in the truck and drove down to the dead end. Right through their Rafter! Take that you overgrown chickens! They half flew- half ran and verbally berated me the whole way.
Less funny when it happens to you, huh?
I could definitely see walking out the front door and blasting one in the face with a Judge. I might have to kick one or two out of the way to get a good shot though.
Unless they gang up on me and shred me... View attachment 896185They saw me walk up to the door and were trying to bite at my pants. They’re not afraid. The sound and echo of them hitting the door was neat.
Man! That’s an ugly bird! A .410 to the beak could only improve that visage...
There were about twenty more outside the frame, so the door stood shut!
buck460XVR
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Within it's parameters, a .410 is plenty. It still is not a 12 ga, regardless of the type of shot you are using. I hate seeing these outrageous claims by ammo companies about the "long range" killing capacity of their turkey loads. Yes, it only takes one pellet in the head or the spinal cord, but this idea that anything within 70 yards is dead meat just leads to lost and wounded birds. It also leads to desperate folks taking low percentage shots which also leads to lost and wounded birds. Many has been the time I could have shot a turkey with a BB gun, much less a .410. Had nuttin' to do with the ammo, but because the bird was that close.
MCgunner
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MCgunner
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Why should I bother getting close when I can whack 'em at 70 yards, farther with a .223?
MCgunner
Member
I do have this 10 gauge H&R Turkey gun, 24" barrel. I bought it to shoot high flying snow geese with and loaded with steel T shot, it does a fine job. I have 10 rounds of sixes I loaded for it somewhere around here. Never got a shot at a bird other than geese, though. It does whack the geese.
Now, what the smaller shot does is increase the shot count per load. Hitting the turkey's HEAD is the object and the higher the shot count in the pattern, the better your chances of that.
Now, what the smaller shot does is increase the shot count per load. Hitting the turkey's HEAD is the object and the higher the shot count in the pattern, the better your chances of that.
Todd1700
Member
TSS shot has changed the turkey hunting world. You can make a 40 yard gun out of a .410 with number 9 or 9.5 TSS. A number 9 tss pellet will penetrate deep enough to kill a turkey waaaay out there. Farther than you could hold a dense enough pattern. The universally agreed on standard for a good enough pattern is at least 100 pellets inside a 10 inch circle. I know people that are consistently putting 130 to 150 pellets inside a 10 inch circle at 40 yards using a .410 and tss shot. That's more than enough and even tss that small will eat a turkey alive at 40 yards. probably strip clean through his head and neck.
mcb
Member
So I looked up TSS shot. Couple things caught my eye. It's a very high alloy one source indicates 95% tungsten. Its density is 18 g/cm^3. Pure tungsten is 19.3 g/cm^3 and for comparison lead is ~11.3 g/cm^3 (depending on alloy) . I would love to know what they are alloying it with and what its hardness is?
Second the price! $35 dollars for 5 rounds. 7 dollars every time you pull the trigger. I knew tungsten was not cheap but that sticker price is a bit shocking. The 12 gauge 3.5 inch shells are $75 for 5 so $15 every time you pull the trigger.
I think I will practice my calling and bring them in a bit closer for my lead shot.
Second the price!
$35 dollars for 5 rounds. 7 dollars every time you pull the trigger. I knew tungsten was not cheap but that sticker price is a bit shocking. The 12 gauge 3.5 inch shells are $75 for 5 so $15 every time you pull the trigger.I think I will practice my calling and bring them in a bit closer for my lead shot.
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buck460XVR
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Same has been said for the newer turkey choke and the making of a 70 yard turkey gun outta a 12 ga. IMHO, while this has resulted in more turkeys killed, it also has resulted in more turkeys wounded and lost. Having hunted turkeys for almost 40 years, I know how hard it is to judge distance on a strutting tom coming in. I have yet to see a shotgun turkey hunter use a rangefinder. Misjudging 10 yards is all it takes. A scenario I have heard many times is this......thinking I have a 40 yard gun....maybe I'll try what I think is 45. After I shoot, see feathers fly and watch the bird fly off into the distance, I pace it off and it is 55. Whoops.
I think the idea of a 410 and tungstun shot may be a ticket for folks who cannot or will not shoot anything else. Seems to me, that is where the practicality stops. If it it is still less effective, cost considerably more and has no other real advantages, why invest? Why not just use field loads in your 12? Why not, like me, use a bow or a crossbow to make it a challenge. Where is the bragging rights, or the real challenge of taking a turkey with a .410 bore, when it's claimed to be just as good as a 12 anyway?
Last year I took my tom with my dad's 100 year old model 1897, 2 3/4" loads. I knew the bird would have to be close. I passed on a coupla shots earlier in the week that would have been easy for my old 3" magnum Mossberg. This year I will be taking my grand-dads 100 year old Fox model B 16ga. SxS. It too only takes 2 3/4" loads and is limited to an 1 1/8 ounce of shot. No real reason for me to go with a .410 bore and $7 a round shells. I'll be using those same #6 pheasant loads that cost me $14 for 25 at Walmart during pheasant season.
Todd1700
Member
("If it it is still less effective, cost considerably more and has no other real advantages, why invest? ")
Well it gives you the option of carrying a very light weight gun into the woods without shrinking the 40 yard range that most turkey hunter adhere to as the standard maxium range to shoot a turkey. Some just like the novelty of doing an old thing in a new way. Also it's very nice to be able to take a young kid armed with a 410 turkey hunting and not have to call one into 25 yards to get them in range.
("Same has been said for the newer turkey choke and the making of a 70 yard turkey gun outta a 12 ga. IMHO, while this has resulted in more turkeys killed, it also has resulted in more turkeys wounded and lost. Having hunted turkeys for almost 40 years, I know how hard it is to judge distance on a strutting tom coming in.")
I have seen no evidence that TSS shot has led to more wounded and lost turkeys and would be very interested to see actual statictics to back that claim up. In fact I'd say that TSS shot and modern chokes provide a good bit of insurance in case you do misjudge a distance. I do not advocate taking 70 yard shots at turkeys because there is just no need for it. Not to mention that at that distance you would need to start actually aiming to compensate for a drop in the shot column. I try not to shoot past 50 yards. But my 12 gauge using number 9 TSS will put 340 pellets inside a ten inch circle at 40 yards and it sure is nice to know that if a bird I thought was 50 yards away turns out to actually be 57 yards away it won't make a tinkers d@*n worth of difference. Still a stone dead bird.
As for the notion that calling one in closer is always a greater accomplishment? Eh, not really. I have at times yelped one time to a gobbler on the limb at first light and had them fall off the limb and run to me like a lost dog. Shot some of those birds at ranges so close I nearly decapitated them and was back at my truck while was it still twilight. Was that a great feat of turkey calling?
Then again I have fooled with some birds for over 4 hours; got up and repositioned 3 times; and threw every call I can make at them just to get them to walk up to 50 yards where they died. I have left the woods way more proud of some of those birds than any of the others.
Well it gives you the option of carrying a very light weight gun into the woods without shrinking the 40 yard range that most turkey hunter adhere to as the standard maxium range to shoot a turkey. Some just like the novelty of doing an old thing in a new way. Also it's very nice to be able to take a young kid armed with a 410 turkey hunting and not have to call one into 25 yards to get them in range.
("Same has been said for the newer turkey choke and the making of a 70 yard turkey gun outta a 12 ga. IMHO, while this has resulted in more turkeys killed, it also has resulted in more turkeys wounded and lost. Having hunted turkeys for almost 40 years, I know how hard it is to judge distance on a strutting tom coming in.")
I have seen no evidence that TSS shot has led to more wounded and lost turkeys and would be very interested to see actual statictics to back that claim up. In fact I'd say that TSS shot and modern chokes provide a good bit of insurance in case you do misjudge a distance. I do not advocate taking 70 yard shots at turkeys because there is just no need for it. Not to mention that at that distance you would need to start actually aiming to compensate for a drop in the shot column. I try not to shoot past 50 yards. But my 12 gauge using number 9 TSS will put 340 pellets inside a ten inch circle at 40 yards and it sure is nice to know that if a bird I thought was 50 yards away turns out to actually be 57 yards away it won't make a tinkers d@*n worth of difference. Still a stone dead bird.
As for the notion that calling one in closer is always a greater accomplishment? Eh, not really. I have at times yelped one time to a gobbler on the limb at first light and had them fall off the limb and run to me like a lost dog. Shot some of those birds at ranges so close I nearly decapitated them and was back at my truck while was it still twilight. Was that a great feat of turkey calling?
Then again I have fooled with some birds for over 4 hours; got up and repositioned 3 times; and threw every call I can make at them just to get them to walk up to 50 yards where they died. I have left the woods way more proud of some of those birds than any of the others.
Ernie Bass
member
We have a lot of Turkeys where I live. They get taken down all the time now with 410ga. Walking back to my truck last year, a guys 13 year old daughter had a nice Tom. Dad told me she bags about 2 or 3 each year for the past couple of years. I guess she does not need a 12ga. Personally use a 20ga and no problems. I guess if you need a 12ga. then you need one. Some folks can get the job done with a 410, just the way it goes.
eastbank
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its very hard to say a bird was wounded or not after a shot, if you don,t get it. but if feathers were pulled theres a good chanch it was hit, and one bebe lead-tss in the guts will turn that turkey into coyote food . i mark trees at 35 yards with orange tape to help me shoot a killing shot. i prefer to call them up, that doesn,t mean i think less of longer range shooting if you and the shotgun are up to it. if i just wanted a turkey walmart sells them as low as .89 cents a pound several times a year.
I was poor growing up and the only shotgun I had to use was my dad's old Montgomery Wards/Western Field single shot 410. It had a very tight choke and I had no problems killing turkeys with it. I even got banned from using the gun at turkey shoots because I was beating guys with their expensive 12's. That old shotgun was made in the 1930's and all I used was 3" Winchester Super X #6 shot for all my hunting. Is a bigger shotgun better - sure it is. Will the 410 get the job done - absolutely.
I can think of 2 reasons. Foremost, calling in a gobbler, especially one that is cautious and needs to be coaxed in, is one of the most exciting things that you can do hunting wise, at least in my book. Second, a highpower rifle has the potential to destroy the tasty breast meat.
Missing out on either of those is a shame!
entropy
Member
.410 with TSS for turkeys, brought to you by the same guys who not so long ago insisted you must use a 3.5" 12 ga 24" Mossberg 835 with the biggest shot your State allows.
Waiting for the .410 with TSS for geese crowd to chime in.......
Yes, .410 can do the job. I just find the irony hilarious.
Waiting for the .410 with TSS for geese crowd to chime in.......
Yes, .410 can do the job. I just find the irony hilarious.
As much as I love hunting with a 410, I would never try to use one for duck or geese. A 410 is the only shotgun I use for rabbit, squirrel, quail, and dove. I haven't used a 410 for turkey since I was a kid. We made do with what we had and that worked.
MCgunner
Member
As to breast meat, a 22 mag didn't seem to hurt much of it and a FMJ .223 shouldn't either. Loosing a whole bird because of using a shotgun isn't a good thing, either. Suit yourself, but I'll stick with my rifle. I'm a rifleman, anyway, though I'm pretty decent with a scatter gun.
I wasn't raised hunting turkey. When I was a kid, turkey were a bonus on a trip to the deer lease outside Leaky, Texas. They were taken with .30-06, .257 Roberts, .308, etc. Might have lost a little meat, but there was plenty left. My uncle usually shot the heads off 'em. He was a fantastic marksman.
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