New guy looking for advice on CCW.

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Darebear

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Hi and thanks all for reading. I hope I'm posting in the right area.

My first pistol was a glock 17... had FTF problems... I have since had/have a HK P2000 V3 DA/SA, S&W M&P compact (thats gone), and a springfield XD 3".

I still have the HK P2000... I love my HK and I do trust it for a CCW, but I am not accurate with the 11lb trigger pull first and then dealing with a 4lb single action pull. I'm considering trading this in and going back to the glock (a glock 19)... I've read countless articles from trained experts that say a consistent trigger pull is the way to go for self defense.

I ask people in different forums about this trade and they either are so HK biased that me thinking about this is stupid or so Glock biased that they can't believe I don't own a glock.

Like I said I hope I'm posting this in the right area and I hope to get some unbiased opinions.
 
Have you considered having your HK converted to the LEM trigger? It's a consistent pull of your choice of 7.4, 6.5, or 4.1 pounds. I haven't used it yet but a lot of people swear by it.
 
Well, I don't own either- so I'd guess I'm perty un-biased.

Now, you have a great firearm, but you can't/ or have yet to develop the level of accurate firing that would give you 100% confidence in that firearm. With your knowledge of why you chose to pursue your CHL, can you justify to the guy that matters most (YOU) why you carry any firearm which you already have performance doubts about? I wont tell you to go out and buy another specific brand, but if you know your abilities cannot be met with the firearm you currently have- then I would suggest doing your own investigation into another pistol which meets your requirements and expectations.

As it stands now, a large portion of any armed engagement you may be involved in is already lost. If you already have a mental preconceived notion that your firearm can't be fired with the accuracy you expect, then that notion won't get any better should the need arise to employ it in an emergency situation. No good can come from that. Am I saying you are automatically doomed to come out on the losing end of such an encounter? Certainly not! However, they are odds stacked against you even if it is a mere fraction of a moments hesitation or an all-out in-decision not to shoot/return fire. What can you live with, and what can you overcome, and what can you fix? Maybe you should look at other firearm options if you don't have the range time available to build your confidence.
 
HK customer service says the V3 can not be converted to any of the LEM configurations, and I haven't talked to anyone that has tried.

Bill Springfield does trigger work on HK's including the P2000. Alot of people like the trigger work he does but I don't know how to go about shipping to him legally because he doesn't have a FFL.
 
I've got a Glock 19 and a 22. The Glock 19 is a great gun, just small enough to be easily concealable and just big enough to be easily controllable.

Do the "$0.25 trigger job" that you can find described on the web. You'll get a safe, smooth consistent trigger pull that the H&K can't hold a candle to. And that's BEFORE you go to a lighter weight connector.

I hate double action auto trigger pulls, ESPECIALLY the pull on a friend's compact H&K. It's hideous.
 
Bill Springfield does trigger work on HK's including the P2000. Alot of people like the trigger work he does but I don't know how to go about shipping to him legally because he doesn't have a FFL.
Click to expand...

Anyone doing business as a gunsmith (that would include trigger jobs) must have his FFL, according to the ATF.

I would contact him and post the question directly.
 
Having owned one for nearly 12 years, I am a fan of the Glock 19. But, have you looked at the S&W M&P? Other than its slide thickness, the compact version is an outstanding carry gun.
 
The Lone Haranguer said:
Having owned one for nearly 12 years, I am a fan of the Glock 19. But, have you looked at the S&W M&P? Other than its slide thickness, the compact version is an outstanding carry gun.
Click to expand...
Yea. I owned a M&P compact chambered in .40... I did not like it. I've shot alot of guns for AR's to M9's and the M&P just turned me off. I didn't like the trigger and the texturing on the grip was useless to me on a hot day at the range... Once my hands were sweaty forget about it... the recoil of the snappy .40 made that gun horrible to shoot.

And the interchangeable backstraps would slide out sometimes when shooting.
 
but I am not accurate with the 11lb trigger pull first and then dealing with a 4lb single action pull. I'm considering trading this in
Click to expand...

That's a software problem, not a hardware problem.
Shoot more, get something you can shoot all day for cheap (hint, .22lr), and then shoot more.
 
Sam1911 said:
Anyone doing business as a gunsmith (that would include trigger jobs) must have his FFL, according to the ATF.

I would contact him and post the question directly.
Click to expand...
I called Bill today. He does have a FFL. The number is even on the website. The posts on HK forums must have been before he got it.
 
bigfatdave said:
That's a software problem, not a hardware problem.
Shoot more, get something you can shoot all day for cheap (hint, .22lr), and then shoot more.
Click to expand...
I can afford the ammo and shoot alot. I've only been at the DA/SA on this gun for about 3 months. So if time will make me a better DA/SA shooter then I'll just keep at it.

No offense, and not trying to start a caliber war but I'm not trusting my life with a .22... Yes .22's have killed people... Just not for me.
 
No offense, and not trying to start a caliber war but I'm not trusting my life with a .22... Yes .22's have killed people... Just not for me.
Click to expand...

sigh ...
the .22 is for practice, to teach you to shoot competently and develop good habits.

But if you want to be in the "hurr durr I don't need no wimpy .22 I only own real gunz!" camp, have fun, I won't bother trying to help.
 
I would stay away from tiny pistols that can fit into a pant pocket.
 
Your probably best to get a glock compact that functions properly. It has a lighter trigger pull that will keep you on target more consistantly.
If your in shooting close up trigger control doesn't mean much,but if you are in a shoot out that might require a shot beyond 10 yrds. then it may make a difference. I know the SW body guard 380 DA only that at 15-25yrds has such a hard trigger pull that it will move you off a 8.5 x 11 piece of paper if pull the trigger hard.

What ever you carry you need to make sure you can consistantly hit your target from 7 -25 yrds.

In a defense situation, your not going to have time to make sure you have all the shooting fundamentals down.

Its kind of like like BUCK FEVER , for the beginning hunter and they loose control of gun and fire wildly at the first deer they see and miss.

So you need to make sure your first few shots are on target and will hit their mark.

The best thing to do is find the gun you shoot the best and practice with it until it becomes and extension of your body and you can hit anything with it.

Also find a range or quarry you can shoot at and set up some real life drills.
Like shooting from a car, shooting an attacker who gets you from behind etc.
 
i find it insane that any glock would have an FTF issue. despite my bias toward them.
ammo issue? operator error?
G17s simply do NOT fail to fire....ever.
and, agreed with XR...shoot what feels good.
if a glock, any glock fails to fire...i think even glock haters would say something is not right here....

good luck. make sure its good reliable gun...
as to concealed carry, which state, locale? sorry im new, and should read more as to THR. but im not dumb. well not yet....

my wife is a die hard sig fan, ive shot em all.
sig is good. but, oddly, ive seen it ftf....(i think it was bad ammo, btw)
the glock ate the same crap, and never belched...
just something to ... something about :p

-G
 
I once picked up a used NIB compact sig 226? 9mm, in the 80's in trade for a TC 35 rem contender from a co worker.

I really didn't like the gun, but before I sold it, I took it to the range and fired 50 rounds thru it and for some reason I couldn't get better than a 12" group out of it at 20 yrds. with either da or sa trigger mode.

This didn't make any sense to me as I had my SW 659 9mm da/sa that I could consistantly hit POA and at least get a 3-5" group of hand at 20 yrds.

The sig seemed like a decent gun , but for me it shot all over the place.

Ended up selling it for $800 back then , as the sig was a sought after gun back then, and had a waiting list to buy one.
 
bigfatdave said:
sigh ...
the .22 is for practice, to teach you to shoot competently and develop good habits.

But if you want to be in the "hurr durr I don't need no wimpy .22 I only own real gunz!" camp, have fun, I won't bother trying to help.
Click to expand...
I didn't call the 22 wimpy. It has its place. Just not with me, so why train with something im not gonna use in the real world? What about recoil characteristics of the 22 vs a 124 speer +p. Even handling the recoil of defensive loads is something I have to train for.

Im not dissing a caliber. My choice is the 9mm load so why would I call the 22 wimpy when I know that tons of people call the 9mm "wimpy"?

Every load has its place, so thanks for the help and putting words in my mouth.
 
look
fondle
read

SHOOT

small guns are more difficult to shoot accurately
big guns are harder to hide

what you decide is your compromise is up to YOU
better to buy slowly after alot of shopping
than have the safe queens and BOXES of holsters/carry stuff
 
I started with a Sig P226 DA/SA. Like you I couldn't get used to the long double action pull. Now, I'm not an expert but I think some PDs favor that format due to liability issues. If you work for a dept that requires you to shoot DA/SA then there is certainly a lot riding on getting good with it...since it's your primary system. Now, if you aren't 'forced' to go DA/SA, and you don't really like it, or it isn't coming naturally, I don't see why you should stick with it. Someone else said this already but I have found Glocks to be amazingly reliable and easy to shoot, especially the Glock 17. The G17 is my go to. There is no gun in my collection that I trust more. Good luck with your decision.
 
I couldn't tell you if a consistent trigger is necessary. I personally like the double-action hammer down carry.

But if you dont like the DAO trigger, I wouldn't hesitate to get a glock.

But if I looking for a consistent, striker-fired pistol, I'd get the S&W M&P compact or the Springfield XD compact. Those are some good guns.
 
Darebear said:
Yea. I owned a M&P compact chambered in .40... I did not like it. I've shot alot of guns for AR's to M9's and the M&P just turned me off. I didn't like the trigger and the texturing on the grip was useless to me on a hot day at the range... Once my hands were sweaty forget about it... the recoil of the snappy .40 made that gun horrible to shoot.

And the interchangeable backstraps would slide out sometimes when shooting.
Click to expand...
I'd love to hear more about that M&P because it doesn't sound anything like mine. Was it one of the first ones to come out? I heard they sometimes had issues.

I'm a die-hard M&P fan and that 40c is my fav for daily carry. I've never seen one do that. My cop-buddy has a full-size in 40 and practices like the dickens and hasn't had issues.

I think you got a lemmon.
 
so why train with something im not gonna use in the real world? What about recoil characteristics of the 22 vs a 124 speer +p.
Click to expand...
How about you worry about recoil training after figuring out how to control the trigger through the DA portion?

Seriously, how many rounds have you sent downrange for real training in 2010? Casual plinking doesn't count, if you're "gonna use in the real world" obviously you need to be practicing firing one shot DA and one more SA, and repeating until you're competent. There is no reason not to do that with rimfire, your "recoil training" is advanced stuff while you're still working on basics.
 
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