New job, allowed to carry but need advice

[ChCx2744]

Hello all. I recently got hired at a computer LAN center (You know, one of those places that let you play online video games on their computers for a small hourly fee). My boss is the owner and I explained to him that I am a GFL holder. Instead of being scared with that, he actually lit up with joy and was glad! He gave me full permission to carry on premises while working and gave me permission to use deadly force if I was ever faced with a situation (I.E. burglary, robbery, felony assault on myself/customers, etc.)

My question is, what exactly is the legality of this? Because I'm only an employee and not the owner, does the "...except your place of business..." part apply to me as well? Both myself and the owner have a mutual understanding and I would think it should be okay. I read the OCGA code section on carrying and I could not find anything on the matter. Hell, if anything, from what I read (I even think it was posted a few posts above) I think I'm pretty much in the clear, because obviously there are no "company policies" saying I can not carry.

Feedback would be MUCH appreciated!

 

[Sebastian the Ibis]

I don't know anything about GA law specifically, however I would get permission from you boss in writing. This doesn't have to be formal, even an email thanking him to which he replies to would be sufficient.

i.e. " Boss, Thank you very much for allowing me to lawfully carry a concealed weapon while working at the LAN center, I fully agree with you that lawful concealed carry is the best defense against robbery and more serious harm. Also, I was supposed to get an X,Y,Z (set of keys, shirt for work, I-9 form) do you know where I can get this?"

This will CYA in case he ever later says that he didn't know you were carrying and would never have permitted it.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Hello all. I recently got hired at a computer LAN center (You know, one of those places that let you play online video games on their computers for a small hourly fee). My boss is the owner and I explained to him that I am a GFL holder. Instead of being scared with that, he actually lit up with joy and was glad! He gave me full permission to carry on premises while working and gave me permission to use deadly force if I was ever faced with a situation (I.E. burglary, robbery, felony assault on myself/customers, etc.)

My question is, what exactly is the legality of this? Because I'm only an employee and not the owner, does the "...except your place of business..." part apply to me as well?

I think you might want to re-read the GA statute:

16-11-128. Carrying pistol without license.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying
a pistol without a license when he has or carries
on or about his person, outside of his home,
motor vehicle, or place of business, any pistol or
revolver without having on his person a valid license
issued by the judge of the probate court
of the county in which he resides, provided that
no permit shall be required for persons with a
valid hunting or fishing license on their person or
for persons not required by law to have hunting
licenses who are engaged in legal hunting, fishing,
or sport shooting when the persons have
the permission of the owner of the land on which
the activities are being conducted; provided,
further, that the pistol or revolver, whenever
loaded, shall be carried only in an open and fully
exposed manner.

 

[Buzzard]

Make sure the owner's lawyer gives you something that grants you permission to carry on site, use it if necessary, he understands you might damage property protecting a life, etc. Get a dozen notarized copies, and keep a copy on you, a copy in a safe deposit box, a copy at home, and copies in other places.

 

[Diggers]

Well I'm not from your state but I think many of these laws are pretty similar.

From what was posted it seems the "except your place of business" is talking about where its OK to carry a handgun IF you DON'T have a license.

It seems you do have a license SO if you carry at work its no different then any other public place in the eyes of the law.

You have your boss's OK but from my understanding of these laws, even if you didn't its not a violation of any gun law only a violation of your contract with your boss.

So that would be a civil matter, not a legal one.

 

[wishin]

In Georgia you can concealed carry at your place of business without a GFL. The business owner can't prevent you from carrying, but he can fire you if he doesn't want guns around. Therefore, you don't really need his permission in writing, or otherwise.

As for use of force there:

Defense of property other than habitation; Lethal force cannot be used to protect real property unless the person using such force reasonably believes that it is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.(16-3-24)

(Stand Your Ground/Shoot First/License To Murder - went into effect July 1st, 2006) If you have determined you need to use lethal force (as stated in one of the underlined "Defense" sections immediatly above) you do not have to try to retreat before using that force. If your defense is valid, you are immune from criminal procecution (unless it is illegal to carry that weapon where you used it) and civil liability actions.(16-3-23.1, 16-3-24.2, 51-11-9)

 

[Nick5182]

I'm not sure about your state, but in my state it's completely up to the owner of the premises whether or not you can carry. You do have to get your permit signed by your employer though.

 

[rm23]

The guy told you it's fine to carry. Don't annoy him with getting things in writing. Congrats on having a cool boss.

 

[mljdeckard]

We all know what rolls downhill. Especially after it has hit the fan.

Your boss hasn't asked his lawyer or insurance carrier if it is ok, that's for sure. If there was ever a situation where you did use it in his business, his butt would be sticking out to absorb the liability. Guess who is the most convenient shield? He gave you permission, but in the haze of battle, exactly who told whom what they were and were not allowed to do under what circumstances might be hazy indeed.

 

[kenno]

NOOOOOOOOOO!
This is a set-up! I smell a huge RAT!
even if you have a Concealed carry permit you can't act like robo cop! This guy that hired you is mental saying that or you are misrepresenting what he said!

 

[Elmar66]

TX makes it easy, they have the "Defense of a third party clause" So basically if it was reasonable for person X to use deadly force, you can act on their behalf.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The guy told you it's fine to carry. Don't annoy him with getting things in writing. Congrats on having a cool boss.

+1 to that!

 

[inclinebench]

Recently here in Virginia, a "loss prevention" employee was carrying concealed, supposedly without his boss' knowledge. Long story short, he shot at a shoplifter in the parking lot of the mall. This is now going to court, and could clarify itself in the future, but it seems like a very sticky web to shoot at someone when you are not contracted to be armed security. Granted it was a shoplifter, not someone posing a serious physical threat. However, it might provide new insight on the groundrules around this type of carry and use.

 

[Zach S]

To be honest, I dont see what the issue is. You have a permit to carry concealed, company policy doesn't forbid it, your boss says its okay...

Get dressed, go to work. Take your pistol in case you need it, but keep praying you don't. Its no different than going anywhere else.

 

[wishin]

We all know what rolls downhill. Especially after it has hit the fan.

Your boss hasn't asked his lawyer or insurance carrier if it is ok, that's for sure. If there was ever a situation where you did use it in his business, his butt would be sticking out to absorb the liability. Guess who is the most convenient shield? He gave you permission, but in the haze of battle, exactly who told whom what they were and were not allowed to do under what circumstances might be hazy indeed.

It wouldn't matter; he doesn't need permission. See post #6.

 

[Art Eatman]

Georgia law is the only relevant law. Iowa or Texas? Irrelevant.

Georgia law allows carry on the premises of a business by the owner/manager or any employee to whom he's given permission. Simple as that.

If actual shooting in self-defense is rationally necessary, Georgia law is on the side of the defender.

 

[NavyLCDR]

There are two separate and distinct issues here for the OP that many people seem to be confusing and intertwining even though they are completely separate issues and have nothing to do with each other.

The first issue is the legality of carrying and using the gun. The OP is legal to carry the gun. Period. In his case, it has nothing to do with employer/business owner permission. He has a GFL. The GFL is what makes carrying his gun legal. Period. The same rules apply for using the gun whether the OP is at his job site or at home. Since he is not a licensed armed guard or a sworn LEO, he can legally use his gun to defend his own life or the life of another. Period. The gun is for defense of life, not for defense of property. Getting written permission from the employer to carry at work does nothing to change any of the above.

The second issue is simply will the OP be fired for bringing a gun to work. Maybe getting something in writing from the employer might protect the OP from being fired, if the employer fires him specifically for the gun. But the employer can fire him for any other reason as well. The issue of keeping his job is mostly an issue of trust between the OP and the employer. And, the owner's permission to carry the gun can change at any time, especially when his insurance company gets wind of the situation!

 

[wishin]

The second issue is simply will the OP be fired for bringing a gun to work. Maybe getting something in writing from the employer might protect the OP from being fired, if the employer fires him specifically for the gun. But the employer can fire him for any other reason as well. The issue of keeping his job is mostly an issue of trust between the OP and the employer. And, the owner's permission to carry the gun can change at any time, especially when his insurance company gets wind of the situation!

Insofar as Georgia law allows you to carry concealed at your place of business without a license the issue of having a GFL is moot. As a practical matter, the business owner is within his rights to inform you that he doesn't want you to carry at his business, should he find out that you're carrying. If you insist on carrying, he can ask you to find other employment. Georgia is an employment at will state.
Given the gun law, you could probably sue your employer for wrongful termination.

Regardless, since you have an understanding boss, the bottom line is you're good to go ChCx2744.

 

[mljdeckard]

Here's the thing.

Even if you are covered from criminal liability in a defensive shooting, there's still civil liability. They won't sue the employee. (Rule #1 of litigation. NEVER SUE POOR PEOPLE.) They will see who has the deeper pockets. When they threaten to sue the store owner, and his insurance carrier is in the mix, they will ask him: "Did you give him permission to carry in your store as YOUR employee, acting on YOUR behalf?"

Option one: "Yes, I gave him permission, and he was acting under my wishes and for my behalf." Store owner is liable for whatever the employee did.

Option two: "No man, he's on his own. I told him he could keep it in his car going to and from work, but I never intended for him to shoot someone in my store, and I didn't hire him to perform security tasks, as he is not a licensed armed security officer, and I am not insured for that purpose." Liability more likely to be deflected.

You flick the abacus.

 

[Lastmohecken]

The best thing to do is just carry concealed as usual, and don't bother your boss with it anymore, because he might rethink the siduation and changed his mind, leaving you unarmed.

At the same time, that does not mean that you are new sheriff in town. You are not a law officer, you are not even an armed guard, you are a CCW holder, who happens to carry while on the job. If you have a problem, call the law if you can, and it's not your responsibility to apprehend anyone, for anything.