Washington Open Carrying on 5/22/04

Status
Not open for further replies.
Congratulations for everyone with a CPL for having the right to carry concealed. YOU were allowed to do your duty to God, Family, and the State today.

I understand your point of view. Let's wait till the time is right before we try to do something. We should wait till a legal ruling has been made before we risk arrest. Let's get the representatives to do something about it, before we do something about it ourselves. Seattle could rule on it and then all of us will be unarmed, (or criminals). These are valid points for YOU.

It also sounds like YOU would enjoy knowing that today while out walking if YOUR jacket had rode up and YOUR gun was exposed, YOU wouldn't have to worry about having commited some crime.

I, on the otherhand, had no such "right" to conceal my gun when I stepped outside on Saturday morning. Tomorrow when I wake up, if I untuck my shirt, I will be called a criminal. Being how I am only the 2nd class citizen, I will wake up tomorrow and be forced to carry openly. This isn't about YOU. This is about ME. I AM the one backed into the corner, and I AM fighting when I AM pushed.

That being said, what follows has nothing to do with the reason I protect my wife, doing my duty to God, family, and state;
Isn't now the time? We are told, not that there might be, but there are terrorist among us. Our citizen's, our children, our way of life has been threaten by a known enemy. Al Qaeda says 4 million of us must die for them to celebrate a Islamic victory. We have borders wide open still to this day, (most citizens realize this). Sure, we don't have a good governor now on this issue. But, if made an issue now, by the time it gets to the governor's desk, he will be replaced. Since 9/11, I would think more citizens would realize that guns are not the cause of the violence, (hatred is).
Click to expand...
But, once again. This isn't about you or any agenda. This is about ME. My NECK is on the line when I do MY DUTY to protect MY WIFE on Thursday.
 
I think Fishorman's mind is made up. So trying to convince him otherwise is not going to work. I offer him my verbal support in doing what he thinks is right. And if he wants to be the first test case on this issue, I support him on that too. We don't have to want to be a first test case. We can continue to lay low or "play it safe". However, I give Fishorman much respect for taking that chance. I can see he has already been successful once. The cops were called, they left because they had nothing to arrest him for. How that is anything less than a victory is beyond me. Sure some bliss ninny might have seen that incident and decided that armed citizens should not be allowed to walk around town. In the same token some bliss ninny might have seen that and decided that since the cops couldn't do anything about it, they might have to just deal with polite, non-threatening gun owners openly carrying firearms in public. You don't know which way the middle might go. We do know which way the anti's will go and it isn't our way no matter what Fishorman does. So I say go for it Fishorman. You are well aware of the consequences and you accept responsibility for your actions, so I applaud you in your efforts.

Sit and think about what this man is doing for a minute. He is exercising his rights to be able to protect his life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Obviously the law is not extremely clear here and law enforcement have let him go once before. Following our mainly conservative viewpoints that we limit the government, the government does not limit us, Fishorman is doing a great thing. He is standing up for all of us. I think we should support him. Sure there is a chance one person who is anti-gun already might not like seeing him do this. There is also the chance that apathetic gun owners see this and decide to get active. Which case are we more scared to see happen?

The negative stigma of carrying a firearm in public is out there, it is also out there amongst so called pro-gun advocates. That is shocking to me. Fishorman is taking a direct step to get people used to firearms and see that a firearm is not evil and neither are gun owners. Keep up the good work. And just realize you cannot screw up!!! If you do something stupid while doing this, you do represent all of us. So keep to the High Road and good luck.
 
Well said, El Rojo!

I totally agree. How wonderful to see someone actually accepting his responsibility as a human being.

FishOrMan, I salute you! It is a very heavy responsiblity that you bear, and you are doing it well.

I sure wish that there had been more people like you in California some years ago, if there had been then maybe... just maybe... this wouldn't now be the People's Republick of California where open carry isn't a possibility for most of us, and even concealed carry (at least here in San Diego County) is only allowed to a privileged few (like Diane Feinstein and Sean Penn.)

So keep up the good work, and make us proud!

Esky
who still can't figure out how the PRK got so weird so suddenly
 
To the last two posters that support me, both NOT from Washington. Thank you.

Also, thanks to all those supporting me inside of Washington.

you do represent all of us. So keep to the High Road and good luck.
Click to expand...

Sadly, my concern cannot be to do my best to represent gun owners. I will certainly keep that in mind and I wish I could afford to make that my cause.

I, still to this day, don't have the priviledge to protect my wife without taking the risk that someone will see my gun. I would add that anyone seeing it would need to be quite observant or be standing directly in front of me. This also makes mute the arguement that to open carry is just putting a target on my chest for the criminal.
 
I don't care what some of you are saying FishOrMan is my hero!!!

We need more gun owners who know their rights are willing to stand up for them instead of groveling at the feet of their master for permission to possess what they already own.

This fear has been designed by our government. Who has the most to lose by citizens owning guns and exercising their 2nd Amend. rights? ...the government!

Carmaaz
AnimMac.gif

http://www.armedfemalesofamerica.com
Pro Gun Women on Full Auto
 
This fear has been designed by our government. Who has the most to lose by citizens owning guns and exercising their 2nd Amend. rights? ...the government!
Click to expand...
Well said.

Fishorman, you know that you have my thumbs up too. Keep up the good work. :D
 
Sadly, my concern cannot be to do my best to represent gun owners. I will certainly keep that in mind and I wish I could afford to make that my cause.
Click to expand...
Why can't that be your concern? A good gun owner is polite, considerate, rational, and aware. You do all of those things and you will not only represent us for the best, but you will also be in a good position to defend yourself. Doing what is right for gun owners and doing what is right for your self-defense are one and the same. Keep it up.
 
Well said El Rojo.

What I meant to say was it is not my MAIN concern... (protection of my wife is).

I am polite. That is until trampled on. My wife is an awesome woman. She deserves a better man then me. If I was a sheep, I would deserve to lose her respect.

Found it funny that the first thing the bank manager told me after being prodded to ban me from open carrying was, "I've seen you many times in my bank and you are always very polite and I enjoy you as a customer." We shook hands and talked for a short time. He didn't want me not to carry, he wanted me to conceal carry, (stating he thought corp. police was against open carry). Having officers surrounding us, it didn't feel like the right time to discuss much on the topic with him. He also sounded like he was forced into it, either because of police or what he believed of the corporate policy.

I don't believe he realized that the law, (RCW 9.41.050), made it a crime if I had tried carrying concealed in his bank. I am going to go back to the bank when my wife gets home from her trip, (to close her account). I would like to find out if he realizes that law or not, or has changed his mind, (since his corporate policy does not say open carry is forbidden in his branch). I will gladly redeposit my money in my wife's account if he has a change in policy towards my right to bear arms.

If you are so inclined, CONTACTS can be
FOUND HERE
 
personally, i don't carry.


but i thank god there are some who do.


can't deal with the kind of harrassment that comes with it. in VA, a guy i knew carried open, never had harrassment per se, but got to talk to the cops alot.

he just would walk down the road and have cops come by and say every 15 minutes or so:
"hi we got a call man waving a gun"
"oh hey bob"
"yeah i figured it was you. been waving your gun?"
"course not"
"ok see you in another 15 minutes"
 
This is very similar to what happened to a gun shop owner in Tempe. He and an employee would make the deposits of large sums during the heady, scary days following 9/11 when sales were phenomonal. BankOne told him that they could NOT bring their guns into the bank. During the discussion that followed they were told that they should hire "armed guards" to make the deposits for them. I guess the "renta-guard" uniforms made the guns invisible or at least "PC" compared to two trained gun shop guys.

They closed the account and went to Wells Fargo where they are allowed to carry and make large deposits.
Click to expand...

Hmm. I've never been hassled when wearing my gun into a Bank One, but I only go into the little mini-branches that are part of supermarkets. If I ever do catch any flak for carrying openly into one, I'm closing my account there myself.

Open carry is a good thing, folks. A right not exercised is a right waived, and I'm going to keep strapping on my 1911 before heading out the door to restaurants, stores, etc., and having interesting conversations with people who ask me about it... when they even bother to regard it as something unusual enough to do that. ;-)
 
You know why POs always command in a loud voice "SIR, YOU HAVE TO CALM YOURSELF?" It's because this creates, in the minds of potential future witnesses, the impression that 1) the citizen was agitated and irrational, and 2) the LEO was attempting to "calm" him before he was "forced" to use violence. In other words, should he choose to put you into a choke hold, hit you over the head, or shoot you, he has a ready pool of witnesses to testify that 1) the citizen was agitated, irrational and refused to calm down, and 2) the LEO made every effort to get you to calm down before he engaged in violence against you. It's SOP.
 
Just because the masses have decided to get their CPL,CCW and not exercise there God-given rights is the reason we have these stupid, objective laws on the books.
Click to expand...
Oh c'mon fishman. Say what you really mean. "The masses" refers to many of the folks on this board since we have CCW licenses. We are just poor dumb sheeple, right? Not like you, a true believer of the most high calling. It must really pain you to be on a gun forum with so many of the great unwashed "masses". :rolleyes:
 
Sounds like you might be feeling some guilt for allowing us to get in the state we are???

Don't be. I don't blame you personally.
We are just poor dumb sheeple, right?
Click to expand...

Dumb? Absolutely NOT.

Afraid to exercise a God-given right? Maybe.

Did you disagree with my statement? Or just mean to insult me?

...not exercise there God-given rights is the reason we have these stupid, objective laws on the books
Click to expand...

Noticed, the laws are what I called stupid.
 
Just my opinion...

FishOrMan is a first rate example of how some of the good guys are their own worst enemy. Kudos for sticking to principle, but you get a number of bummers for your bad attitude to the LEOs who have approached you.

You carry like a banger, walk into a bank and then show your attitude to the LEO who shows to investigate -- real mature :rolleyes: While you apparently know the law, you act like an immature kid who wants to show-off.

You post your real name and hometown on the internet along with the fact that you open carry a 1911 right above your family jewells. In some ways you remind me of a pre-scholler at Show-and-Tell. While it may be legal, drawing undue attention to yourself is not cool.
 
People who choose to be at the cutting edge in the struggle to restore our rights will naturally appear to some to be flaunting something, but what he's doing is very aggressively standing on principle. He's right. He doesn't have to be calm when being harassed needlessly by the police. Men who are harassed will naturally get annoyed, not calm. There are degrees of sheeple in all of us, but this guy is pretty near zero on the sheeple scale, and for that I admire him, and am grateful for what he is doing. Many people are reacting negatively to his approach because you have become accustomed to holding an inferior status in relation to police officers. That's not the attitude of a freeman, and we need to act like free men, and react to harassment like freemen, if we ever hope to change the attitude of the police towards us, which, at the present, is that we are their inferiors rather than their bosses.
 
Well said Hawkeye.

FishOrMan keep up the fight. People who fight for their rights always look crazy to those who are ok with giving them up or don't want them.
 
While I agree with the principle and have nothing against open carry, anyone on the pointy end of this spear needs to be aware that they will be approached by LE. When LE approaches, a polite, more conversive tone will go much further in ensuring the LEO that the person legally carrying openly is no threat to public safety and is in fact a good guy. Carrying like a banger and showing attitude only brings out the LEO "us vs them" mindset and reinforces in their mind that it applies.

You can be polite and still hold onto your rights -- the two are not mutually exclusive. IMO, that's the point we need to get across. We are the good guys, we should act like good guys. If our goal is to influence behavior, we need to do so through positive actions which earn respect. I do not see FishOrMan's actions as positive, rather I see them as "in-your-face" actions which only serve to piss people off. Rather than having a bunch of cops go back to their cruisers thinking "only goes to show that any ??????? can own a gun", I'd prefer to have the LEO walk away thinking "nice guy, nice 1911".

I once had a retired LA cop compliment me on the leather my Glock rode in. Cops notice things and there's a big difference between packing banger style and carrying in a secure well fit holster. Again, just my opinion.
 
I will weigh in on this with one little thought. Carry concealed or carry openly, it's your choice... But make sure to CARRY!
 
The negative stigma of carrying a firearm in public is out there, it is also out there amongst so called pro-gun advocates. That is shocking to me. Fishorman is taking a direct step to get people used to firearms and see that a firearm is not evil and neither are gun owners. Keep up the good work. And just realize you cannot screw up!!! If you do something stupid while doing this, you do represent all of us. So keep to the High Road and good luck.
Click to expand...


I see a man with an openly-carried, holstered handgun straped to his belt, and I'm pretty confident that he's one of the Good Guys.

He may be a cop, FBI, or just a law-abiding citizen with a gun. EIther way, he's on my side.


Criminals are the ones with the NAA or Jenings stuck in their back waistband or in their pocket.


No crook is going to walk around with a retained open-carry piece for very long. Therefore, logic dictates that the odds are he's a good guy.


Anyone who equates open-carry with perversion, raceism, and the like is making a terrible logical fallicy and buying into emptional hype.
 
I'm still trying to figure out why you don't just get a CPL.

It seems like your leaving out some very important details. Can you NOT get a CPL? Or do you refuse to get one out of principle?

EDITED TO ADD:

Took the time to look at your blog and i see the answer to my question. You seem to claim that it is just too much hassle to get a permit. Well, thats up to you then. But you do seem to have plenty of time on your hands to write about how much of a hassle NOT having a permit is...
 
You seem to claim that it is just too much hassle to get a permit
Click to expand...

That is NOT the reason.

From a personal point of view... (I will repeat myself, in my personal opinion): If I were to get a CPL/CCW, (where as the requirement to get one is to ask the permission of the state), I would have failed to honor my Father in Heaven. He did not create me to be a serf or live in serfdom. Accepting the treatment of a serf is the first step towards living in serfdom. To ask man for the permission to do something that is a God-given right is wrong. To pay men money for the permission to do something that is a God-given right is wrong.

To honor my Creator comes first. It is before the safety of myself or my wife, and certainly before the defense of this state.

My God also requests that I follow man's law, when it does not conflict with God's law. I believe I can still do that in this state, man's law simple requires me to open carry. I do so in a manner, that most folks are not even observant enough to know, (the police officer I walked a couple feet from didn't).

So, now you know... I am just a nut.

Riverdog,
You post your real name and hometown on the internet
Click to expand...
One was a letter to the editor, which was printed in the local newspaper, and requires a full name when printing. It was my way of informing the local police, (and public), that open carry was legal and a person doing so, shouldn't be harassed. Are you against the printing of such letters? It was printed over a month ago. I haven't had any problems with criminals seeking me out. Since the fact that I carry was already printed locally, I wasn't much concerned about the people a thousand miles away finding out either. But, since you think this is a safety matter, I have edited real names.

You carry like a banger, walk into a bank and then show your attitude to the LEO who shows to investigate
Click to expand...

I wasn't aware of the law that carrying like a "banger" was illegal. Do you believe legal activities warrant investigating? Or would you just have my method of carry outlawed too? Or was it carrying in the bank that was the problem? Sounded like all of thee above, but I don't quite follow you here...
 
Took the time to look at your blog and i see the answer to my question. You seem to claim that it is just too much hassle to get a permit. Well, thats up to you then. But you do seem to have plenty of time on your hands to write about how much of a hassle NOT having a permit is...
Click to expand...
If it were merely a matter of principle, would that be wrong in your eyes? Where the heck are you coming from disparaging actions based on principle? What a shame that you don't have enough awareness of the issues to be grateful for someone else taking a risk to preserve YOUR liberties.
 
FishOrMan please rethink your strategy on this subject. We here in wash. state have a pretty simple carry law and if you keep pushing all the buttons sooner or later you are going to push the wrong buttons and some anti gun TV like (king 5) and some of the politicos will get wind of it and decide they need to add more restrictions, and thats the last thing the people in this state need. our state carry law lets us carry any legal hand gun with out having to have to declare every gun we plan on carrying. I would like to keep it that way. before you go off on me, think about it, it is truly better not to stick your hand in the open mouth of a bear and think it is not going to bite you.


:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :scrutiny: :scrutiny:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

H
  • Locked
Open Carry in Washington State
2 3
Replies
50
Views
2K
Gray Peterson
G
G
  • Locked
WA: Federal Way PD Recognizes Open Carry's Legality
2
Replies
43
Views
2K
gunsmith
G
F
  • Locked
Ellensburg, WA Open Carry Letter to Editor
2
Replies
49
Views
5K
Jammer Six
J
A
  • Locked
Is it legal to open carry in your state?
2
Replies
29
Views
1K
MD_Willington
M
B
  • Locked
Wal-Mart in Southwestern VA Anti-Gun
Replies
8
Views
727
Art Eatman
A
Back
Top