briansmithwins
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I wasn't the one who brought up the AR.
I don't particularly care for them, but I don't pretend that they aren't a good deal, for what they are.
BSW
New M1As, any good?
- Thread starter Panzerschwein
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I wasn't the one who brought up the AR.
I don't particularly care for them, but I don't pretend that they aren't a good deal, for what they are.
BSW
Ash
Member
X-Rap:
No nostalgia nor emotion, the rifle just plain works. It is reliable, it is effective, and it fires a potent round. You can mount optics if you like (I have with solid mounts) and you can do all sorts of things in the EBR realm with the M14 platform.
You cannot provide me with an arm more reliable nor accurate for the purpose the M14 serves. That is not emotion, it is experience. If you can't handle the weight, I understand. There are girly men out there. For me, it's weight is no big deal. And I have experience in firearms. I have owned the following semi-automatic firearms:
Bushmaster (original) AR-15 with A1 sights.
Rock River AR-15 with A2 sights
Stag Arms AR-15 with removable carry handle/A2 sights
DS Arsm AR-15 - same as Rock River
Ruger Mini-14GB
M1 Carbine - Inland
M1 Carbine - Quality Hardware
M1 Carbine - Saginaw/Inland
Egyptian Hakim
Egyptian Rashied
Ishvesk SVT-40
Tula SKS-45
Izhevsk SKS-45
Various Chinese Type 56 SKS's
Yugoslavian M59/66a1
French MAS 49/56 7.5mm
DS Arms FAL
Entreprise Arms FAL
Imbel FAL
Imbel FAL Isreali Heavy Barrel
Izhvesk SVD (real deal SVD)
Norinco NDM-86
PSL-54C
Romak-3
Springfield M1 Garand
Winchester M1 Garand
Springfield M1A - sold to get the first AR
Armscorp TFL M14s - H&R Parts
LRB M14 with TRW parts
When I sold my collection off to buy a house and land - and I literally got enough money to write a check for the house and land (I added $15,000 from another source to the mix), I ended up utterly simplifying my life.
All are gone except the Mini-14, Winchester Garand, Saginaw Carbine, and M14. The Garand was the only emotional arm kept. The Saginaw is one my son uses (he's 10). The Mini and M14's are mine. No emotion to keeping them, only singling out those arms that will do everything I need them to do, have proven reliability, and are configured exactly how I need them.
They are not toys and I am not so fickle as to need to constantly re-configure them. I have owned the rest and now all I need is what I have.
Of course, most firearms purchases beyond the basics are emotional in nature - cold logic is seldom the deciding factor.
BSW,
"I wasn't the one who brought up the AR.
I don't particularly care for them, but I don't pretend that they aren't a good deal, for what they are."
Fair enough. I think an AR is a fine rifle and a good deal (especially now that prices are as low as they are).
But an M14 is not some emotionally illogical choice.
No nostalgia nor emotion, the rifle just plain works. It is reliable, it is effective, and it fires a potent round. You can mount optics if you like (I have with solid mounts) and you can do all sorts of things in the EBR realm with the M14 platform.
You cannot provide me with an arm more reliable nor accurate for the purpose the M14 serves. That is not emotion, it is experience. If you can't handle the weight, I understand. There are girly men out there. For me, it's weight is no big deal. And I have experience in firearms. I have owned the following semi-automatic firearms:
Bushmaster (original) AR-15 with A1 sights.
Rock River AR-15 with A2 sights
Stag Arms AR-15 with removable carry handle/A2 sights
DS Arsm AR-15 - same as Rock River
Ruger Mini-14GB
M1 Carbine - Inland
M1 Carbine - Quality Hardware
M1 Carbine - Saginaw/Inland
Egyptian Hakim
Egyptian Rashied
Ishvesk SVT-40
Tula SKS-45
Izhevsk SKS-45
Various Chinese Type 56 SKS's
Yugoslavian M59/66a1
French MAS 49/56 7.5mm
DS Arms FAL
Entreprise Arms FAL
Imbel FAL
Imbel FAL Isreali Heavy Barrel
Izhvesk SVD (real deal SVD)
Norinco NDM-86
PSL-54C
Romak-3
Springfield M1 Garand
Winchester M1 Garand
Springfield M1A - sold to get the first AR
Armscorp TFL M14s - H&R Parts
LRB M14 with TRW parts
When I sold my collection off to buy a house and land - and I literally got enough money to write a check for the house and land (I added $15,000 from another source to the mix), I ended up utterly simplifying my life.
All are gone except the Mini-14, Winchester Garand, Saginaw Carbine, and M14. The Garand was the only emotional arm kept. The Saginaw is one my son uses (he's 10). The Mini and M14's are mine. No emotion to keeping them, only singling out those arms that will do everything I need them to do, have proven reliability, and are configured exactly how I need them.
They are not toys and I am not so fickle as to need to constantly re-configure them. I have owned the rest and now all I need is what I have.
Of course, most firearms purchases beyond the basics are emotional in nature - cold logic is seldom the deciding factor.
BSW,
"I wasn't the one who brought up the AR.
I don't particularly care for them, but I don't pretend that they aren't a good deal, for what they are."
Fair enough. I think an AR is a fine rifle and a good deal (especially now that prices are as low as they are).
But an M14 is not some emotionally illogical choice.
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Ash
Member
And talking about long in the tooth, the AR is a good 56 years old itself - older than a sizable portion of those who post on this forum.
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Lord Teapot
Member
i looked at one when i was shopping around for my 'big caliber shtf semi' category gun. didnt seem worth it, and i didnt like how it felt, i assume older ones felt more solid.
Lord Teapot
Member
Reloadron
Contributing Member
So then what's the deal with a 1911? Would that be nostalgic? What's with the attraction people have to AK type rifles? How about you as an individual buy the gun or guns which trip your trigger?.You are going to have to explain that to this old guy.
I'm kinda dull....
That said, an M1A choice is an emotional one -- no game.
Sorta like picking up a Garand, it is a nostalgic trip to the past...
... whose technological form, fit & function is long now surpassed.
Even so... I still have both.
How did I know this thread would evolve into this as I pointed out in Post #4? Oh wait, because they always do. No thought involved there.
Ron
OilyPablo
Member
M1A is fine. Maybe a bit over priced. But reliable and accurate.
Yes. Way too heavy/large for what can be gotten now.
Even so, I have two.
Pure mean looking, "the other guy's" AW,... (though quite inaccurate by modern/Western AW standards.)
Still my first AW was a Valmet M76 back in `79. (I had enough sense, though to see the comparative advantage value of the 5.56 round)
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
I'm looking for that "original GI" look to it.
I'll keep it "in the walnut" as it were, and the only tactical attachment will be a GI cotton web sling.
I'll keep it "in the walnut" as it were, and the only tactical attachment will be a GI cotton web sling.
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 8,266
You already know you want one. The SAI is a good place to start and will scratch the itch.
Now, good luck resisting the urge. If you do, you're a stronger man than I.
Now, good luck resisting the urge. If you do, you're a stronger man than I.
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
Awesome guys!
How does the M1A do with steel cased Wolf ammo? Will it shoot it reliably? I would like to use that as cheap plinking/range ammo if at all possible. .308/7.62x51 is expensive!!
How does the M1A do with steel cased Wolf ammo? Will it shoot it reliably? I would like to use that as cheap plinking/range ammo if at all possible. .308/7.62x51 is expensive!!
Welding Rod
Member
Not in my experience. I would buy a M14 clone from another manufacturer. I put SAI on par with Ruger and Kimber for quality control problems... In other words they they have demonstrated to my satisfaction that they lack a meaningful QC program. If you want more details I have posted them in the past in this forum.
Now the M14 clone, if well built, is a formidable rifle that is an absolute joy to shoot with iron sights.
Now the M14 clone, if well built, is a formidable rifle that is an absolute joy to shoot with iron sights.
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
What brands would you recommend?
Again, I'm looking for a GI style M14 clone with wood furniture and iron sights, and not much else save a GI web belt. Thanks!
Again, I'm looking for a GI style M14 clone with wood furniture and iron sights, and not much else save a GI web belt. Thanks!
Welding Rod
Member
I can't say as the only firsthand experience I have is with my SAI M1As (4 of them) and military M14s.
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
So you have four of them? I thought you said quality control isn't good?
If SAI will stand by the product, I can deal with the chance of getting a dud... From what I've seen, most other brands are very expensive.
Ash
Member
Most other manufacturers are pricey, sometimes very pricey. But Springfield's are good rifles. They wouldn't still be in business if they weren't. Over at the M14 forum, their receivers are viewed as good for the job.
I kind of see the Springfield M1a as something akin to the older US made Craftsman wrenches and sockets. They were good, solid tools that did the job just fine. They weren't Williams, MAC, Matco, or Snap On, but they were well-made and would last the average owner a lifetime or two (my son has a set that belonged to my dad, who was a foundry maintenance man before he died).
There are better M14 type rifles out there, true, but you will pay a premium for them. Yeah, I really like my LRB. I like it much more than I did my Springfield. But truth be told, it doesn't do anything that my old M1a did except mount a bayonet.
I kind of see the Springfield M1a as something akin to the older US made Craftsman wrenches and sockets. They were good, solid tools that did the job just fine. They weren't Williams, MAC, Matco, or Snap On, but they were well-made and would last the average owner a lifetime or two (my son has a set that belonged to my dad, who was a foundry maintenance man before he died).
There are better M14 type rifles out there, true, but you will pay a premium for them. Yeah, I really like my LRB. I like it much more than I did my Springfield. But truth be told, it doesn't do anything that my old M1a did except mount a bayonet.
Logical and emotional ARE reasons to buy or not buy a weapon
You are considering an expensive rifle
You want to be happy with your purchase
Right?
You will be happiest when you find the weapon that meets the need that YOU have.
What is the use for the gun?
A few years ago, I was EXACTLY where you were....
I just HAD to get an M1A
It looks cool, and the reports from people that have them are very positive.
I wanted a weapon that I could carry around all day and hunt at short and
long ranges.
I was in my 40s (Then) and wanted a scope, as my eyes weren't / arent great
As I picked up a few M1As scoped at gun shows, I realized that this rifle was a very heavy solution to what I wanted. Very heavy.
I ended up switching gears completely and went with a Bison Armory AR15 in 6.8. Its deadly to 300 yards.
Its light and easy to carry, easy to work on, and knocks the stuffing out of everything that I hunt. (Its my DRT bullet...... Dead right there..... On BIG Texas piggies)
Your use of the gun may be different than mine, but before you lay down the big coin.......... think about your uses.
It may still be the M1A.........
Good luck and God Bless
You are considering an expensive rifle
You want to be happy with your purchase
Right?
You will be happiest when you find the weapon that meets the need that YOU have.
What is the use for the gun?
A few years ago, I was EXACTLY where you were....
I just HAD to get an M1A
It looks cool, and the reports from people that have them are very positive.
I wanted a weapon that I could carry around all day and hunt at short and
long ranges.
I was in my 40s (Then) and wanted a scope, as my eyes weren't / arent great
As I picked up a few M1As scoped at gun shows, I realized that this rifle was a very heavy solution to what I wanted. Very heavy.
I ended up switching gears completely and went with a Bison Armory AR15 in 6.8. Its deadly to 300 yards.
Its light and easy to carry, easy to work on, and knocks the stuffing out of everything that I hunt. (Its my DRT bullet...... Dead right there..... On BIG Texas piggies)
Your use of the gun may be different than mine, but before you lay down the big coin.......... think about your uses.
It may still be the M1A.........
Good luck and God Bless
AlexanderA
Member
When it comes to the quality of the M1A's, the rule of thumb is "the earlier the better." The holy grail is one of the very first ones made in Devine, Texas, before the operation was bought by the Reese family and moved to Illinois.
The reason for this is that the earlier the gun, the greater the proportion of genuine GI parts. The "Devine" guns are all GI except for the receiver. The current M1A's have practically no GI parts.
The alterations required to make the M14 design pass muster as a semiautomatic (mainly a beefier right-side receiver rail, precluding the installation of the full-auto connector) actually make the action stiffer and more firmly bedded. This means that the M1A is inherently more accurate than the M14.
That said, the FAL is a more advanced design than the M14/M1A. It would have been adopted by the U.S. Army back in the 1950's had it not been for political considerations.
The reason for this is that the earlier the gun, the greater the proportion of genuine GI parts. The "Devine" guns are all GI except for the receiver. The current M1A's have practically no GI parts.
The alterations required to make the M14 design pass muster as a semiautomatic (mainly a beefier right-side receiver rail, precluding the installation of the full-auto connector) actually make the action stiffer and more firmly bedded. This means that the M1A is inherently more accurate than the M14.
That said, the FAL is a more advanced design than the M14/M1A. It would have been adopted by the U.S. Army back in the 1950's had it not been for political considerations.
Ash
Member
Having owned FAL's, some really good ones, the M14 is better for the semi-auto shooter in my opinion and experience. It isn't any more modern except in it's appearance and weight is the same as the M14 while having inferior sights and trigger. As a battle rifle, I would feel just fine taking an FAL into battle. As a shooter, there is no question which one is the better shooter.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
When yu start getting away from the traditional SA (Springfield Armory) manufactured rifles there are several others. There is also no shortage of lightly used rifles out there which can be had for decent prices. However, if buying a used rifle make damn sure you have someone with you familiar with the rifle and what to look for, additionally having some gauging is nice.
Currently if there is a "Holy Grail to manufacturers it is likely LRB OF LONG ISLAND, INC - Forged M14 and AR15 Receivers. Their standard M14 Service Grade will run you about $2,200 for starters. Hardly inline with the Springfield Armory flavors. However, you do get one hell of a nice rifle. The real nice NM (National Match) flavors easily run over $3,000.
Hell, during the early to mid 90s a few tons of the Norinco Polytech M14 rifles poured in from China. Back then, new, they sold for around $500 dealer cost. Today I see those rifles at gun shows in the $1,000 range. Contrary to some bad rap and rumor control they weren't bad rifles, not great but not bad. All in all there is nothing wrong with considering a lightly used rifle of your liking and choosing. Just make damn sure this type rifle is what you want because as I mentioned earlier the M14 / M1A can be one of those love it or hate it rifles.
Ron
Currently if there is a "Holy Grail to manufacturers it is likely LRB OF LONG ISLAND, INC - Forged M14 and AR15 Receivers. Their standard M14 Service Grade will run you about $2,200 for starters. Hardly inline with the Springfield Armory flavors.
However, you do get one hell of a nice rifle. The real nice NM (National Match) flavors easily run over $3,000. Hell, during the early to mid 90s a few tons of the Norinco Polytech M14 rifles poured in from China. Back then, new, they sold for around $500 dealer cost. Today I see those rifles at gun shows in the $1,000 range. Contrary to some bad rap and rumor control they weren't bad rifles, not great but not bad. All in all there is nothing wrong with considering a lightly used rifle of your liking and choosing. Just make damn sure this type rifle is what you want because as I mentioned earlier the M14 / M1A can be one of those love it or hate it rifles.
Ron
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
Thanks, guys. I'm getting some conflicting reports... some say these aren't so good, others say they are fine. I should clarify what I'm looking for.
I want a GI M14 clone style rifle, walnut stock with iron sights only and with an old school GI web sling. That's it. I am not looking for a bench rest gun. The weapon will be for plinking and informal range work, not gilt edge accuracy. I am mostly concerned with reliability first, and would also prefer the gun be able to shoot steel case ammo and not jam up on me.
I want a GI M14 clone style rifle, walnut stock with iron sights only and with an old school GI web sling. That's it. I am not looking for a bench rest gun. The weapon will be for plinking and informal range work, not gilt edge accuracy. I am mostly concerned with reliability first, and would also prefer the gun be able to shoot steel case ammo and not jam up on me.
Reloadron
Contributing Member
Then you want the basic SA (Springfield Armory):
Model MA9102, New Walnut stock w/ Standard profile 22" parkerized carbon steel barrel - See more at:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/standard-m1a/#sthash.uNTS6tmT.dpuf
That is as standard as it gets right down to the walnut stock. Read down the link to find the walnut.
Ron
Model MA9102, New Walnut stock w/ Standard profile 22" parkerized carbon steel barrel - See more at:
http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/standard-m1a/#sthash.uNTS6tmT.dpuf
That is as standard as it gets right down to the walnut stock.
Read down the link to find the walnut. Ron
jobu07
Contributing Member
Then buy a used SA M1A and be done with it. You'll be very happy when you show us the range report photos of your targets.
Nature Boy
Member
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2015
- Messages
- 8,266
SAI has one of the best warranties in the business. Lifetime of the rifle. Met a guy at the range a few months ago who had a Standard. He told me his trigger had a problem and he sent it back to SAI and they returned it with a national match trigger installed at no cost.
They stand behind their product. I think you can buy with confidence
They stand behind their product. I think you can buy with confidence
OP
OP
Panzerschwein
member
Thanks guys!
I handled the exact model I wanted at Cabelas today. Felt and LOOKED very nice. I'm still do my research, and the price they wanted for it was higher than I've seen elsewhere so I didn't jump on it... but it sure was tempting!!
I handled the exact model I wanted at Cabelas today. Felt and LOOKED very nice. I'm still do my research, and the price they wanted for it was higher than I've seen elsewhere so I didn't jump on it... but it sure was tempting!!
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