Police Officers Indicted in New Orleans

[Desertdog]

Police Officers Indicted in New Orleans
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061228/D8MA45FO0.html

By MICHAEL KUNZELMAN

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - Seven police officers were indicted Thursday on murder or attempted murder charges in a pair of shootings on a bridge that left two people dead during the chaotic aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.

The shootings took place under murky circumstances six days after the storm and became one of the most widely cited examples of the anarchy that descended after Katrina.

Two young men were killed and four people wounded on the Danziger Bridge, which spans the Industrial Canal.

At the time, the sweltering city was still littered with corpses as rescuers tried to evacuate stranded residents and looters ransacked stores.

Police initially said the Sept. 4, 2005, shootings occurred after shots were fired at Army Corps of Engineers workers.

According to a police report, several officers responded to a radio call that two fellow officers had been hurt. When they arrived, seven people were seen running, and four began firing at police, the report said. The officers returned fire.

The victims were Ronald Madison, a 40-year-old mentally retarded man, and James Barsett, 19. The coroner said Madison was shot seven times, with five wounds in the back.

 

[MechAg94]

If they were shooting at them, what does it matter if they were running away? They still posed a serious threat. (at least looking at that second to last paragraph)

 

[jrfoxx]

*disclaimer:I am going off of memory of articles and news reports, some I heard or read a fair while ago, some fairly recently, so I may be off on certain deatails.Therefore, I am simply stating what I rememer, and am not "cop bashing" or "cop apologizing", as I dont want to get involved in one of the heated discussion that arise rom that type of thing here which inevitably result in name calling, personal attacks, and thread closure.*


I beleive the problem comes from reports that several witnesses said that the dead men had no weapns, and made no threatenng movements/gestures, and even the police report said no weapons were found.I also beleive that witnesses were inerviewed by the police, but thier statements were not in the police report, neither were thier names and/or any contact info.I believe the reprt failed to mention the fact that there even WERE any witnesses, and officer accounts changed over time and or were contradictry at times.

 

[Sniper56]

All is not as it appears. The officers shot them with shotguns, hence multiple wounds. Not seven different rounds.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

I don't know. New Orleans was a cess pool of violence and chaos.

I know this: The local gangs and thugs found a great opportunity to attack the police and emergency workers. They even fired on rescue helicopters. Local police also used it as an opportunity to be brutal. Civil rights groups will always side with the thugs, while the media and government will always cover-up the severity of police abuse.

My summary? They're all scum that I'd like to avoid at all costs. This is a prime example of why a SHTF situation is so bad. All elements of society are potential threats. This is why society has reacted the way it has since N.O.. Demand for guns, especially ARs and such is out of control. A lot more people in this country have learned that in a situation like that, they're on their own. They've finally been disconnected from the myth that government will save you or protect you. In my view, you are alone, no one is your friend - you can't trust the police, you can't trust people unless you already know them.


Tip 1] don't live in an inner city or near a ghetto plagued by gang violence that also has a corrupt police department. Move out to the 'burbs and commute like the rest of the civilized world.

Tip 2] if you bug out, do so before the storm hits. Take things of value and all your guns and drive to another state. If you have family for friends, that is best. If not, renting or lodging might break the bank, but it is better than living through hell.

Tip 3] If you plan to bug in, make sure you can live at least a month without outside assistance. If you can't - you'll end up in a government refugee camp, disarmed, mistreated, and in badshape wishing you bugged out instead.


Sorry, not trying to hijack the tread - carry on.

 

[AStone]

Tip 4] Move to eastern Oregon, northern Nevada, Idaho or Alaska.

 

[Lucky]

I know this: The local gangs and thugs found a great opportunity to attack the police and emergency workers. They even fired on rescue helicopters

I don't think that's true at all. In fact I was under the impression that was all manufactured.

The police were in on the looting, either in a small capacity, like videos of them with handfuls of CDs while Walmarts get looted, or in a large scale, equipping themselves with Cadillacs.

The violence involving police was a one-way street, police violating civilians.

Though I may be mistaken, there might be some legitimate instances overshadowed by the gross number of false reports. I'm not averse to being wrong on this.

 

[Speer]

This is a prime example of why a SHTF situation is so bad.

Right. In that kind of chaos, who do you really trust? Scary.

 

[Don't Tread On Me]

Right. In that kind of chaos, who do you really trust?

I trust my good friends:

Smith & Wesson, Kalashnikov, Colt et al...

 

[Zedicus]

Tip 4] Move to eastern Oregon, northern Nevada, Idaho or Alaska.

You Forgot Montana.

 

[AStone]

You forgot Montana.

Sorry.

A little too far east for my taste.

 

[AStone]

I trust my good friends:

870P, Marlin, Kahr...

 

[Speer]

I trust my good friends:

Smith & Wesson, Kalashnikov, Colt et al...

Well, put like that, I suppose I could rely on a few friends of my own.

 

[WeedWhacker]

The linked story is so short on details almost to the point that it couldn't even be called a story. That said, though, was this not directly related to a scenario where some people were trying to leave NOLA on foot via a bridge, and wasn't the bridge being manned by police keeping people from crossing? As I recall, there were multiple civilians involved initially, and most turned back after (they claim) police pointed firearms at them after an (allegedly) non-violent, non-confrontational approach, whether to pass by or to speak with, I do not recall.

Does this jog anyone else's memory? Post details if you've got 'em!

-edit
Found a link ( wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2005/11/more-on-danziger-bridge-incident.html ) which summarizes what I remember about the Danziger Bridge incident. Someone sure did a whole lot of verbal tapdancing.

Better yet, XavierBreath has a more coherant and up-to-date post on the matter on his blog.

 

[XavierBreath]

What Happened on New Orleans' Danziger Bridge?

Lance Madison vs City of New Orleans et al. (pdf file)

You can find much information, including the autopsy report of Ronald Madison, and the New Orleans Police Department Gist Sheet describing the Danziger Bridge incident at the two links above. There is much more than meets the eye here. One innocent man, Lance Madison, was framed over a year for murder. Two innocent people were murdered as they cowered begging for their lives. Others were horribly maimed for life. None were shooting at relief workers, as was claimed by the NOPD. They had no guns. They had no means of defense.

The main complainant on Sept 4, 2005 was a man named David Ryder who was posing that day as a St. Landry Parish deputy sheriff. He is the person who identified Lance Madison as a sniper. But David Ryder isn't an officer of the law. He's a private citizen from Opelousas, La., who drove to New Orleans after Katrina to help out with rescues.

One of the dead, Ronald Madison, a 40 year old retarded man, was shot five times in the back, and twice more, equalling seven times, not once as the New Orleans police claim. Jose Holmes was shot twice in the abdomen, at close range, while he cowered behind a concrete barricade with a wounded arm. He now wears a colostomy bag and has limited use of one arm. Susan Bartholomew states: "When I look, we're all on the ground and all you can see is blood. Everywhere. You can hear everybody hollering, moaning, everybody been shot and in pain. My right arm was on the ground lying next to me. The only thing that was attached to it was a piece of skin. It had been shot off." It is believed she lost that arm to a close range shotgun blast. It did not fall off on it's own.

What crime had these people committed? Trying to reach safety after a natural disaster.

Disagree if you like, paint the incident anyway you chose. The shooters on the Danziger Bridge are finally going to trial, and not even Police superintendent Warren Riley can prevent it.

More links in my blog:
Snipers on the Danziger Bridge?

Update on the Danziger Bridge Massacre

At Last..........

Remember......these are the guys who sought to disarm those in need of protection. Do not forget New Orleans.

Weewhacker, what you are thinking about is Sherriff Jack Strain of St. Tammany Parish blocking the bridge into his parish to evacuees who were trying to leave new Orleans on foot. That is an entirely different incident.

 

[Lucky]

What can make a person like that? People aren't born like that, do they watch Law and Order and CSI 24 hours a day? Is that what numbs them to their actions towards other humans? That one who shot the kid in the gut - unbelievable. Holy carp those officers aren't human.

Incidentally that drawing with the locations of wounds, the scribble at the bottom mentions round projectiles and bullets/shot. Consider the pattern, and Sniper56 could be right about the shotgun.

 

[molonlabe]

I know this: The local gangs and thugs found a great opportunity to attack the police and emergency workers. They even fired on rescue helicopters.

This has been proven a myth. There was never any evidence produced of a hole in any rescue aircraft.

Thanks Xavier for the update.

 

[ceetee]

From what I remember, some people were said to be firing shots in the air as a way to draw attention; to get help. People on the ground heard shots and might have even seen those stranded on rooftops aiming into the air and misconstrued what was happening.

Well done, Xavier...

 

[Apple a Day]

As a psychological experiment I was wondering:
In a city without power- which is unnaturally quiet and everyone has their windows open since there's no air conditioning - if one guy fires a shot then how many people later will report that there was a shooting incident? How many will hear echoes off buildings and claim that there were multiple shots fired? How many will panic and believe that the shot(s) were fired in their direction?
I suppose there's no practical way to test this idea or take actual data but it makes me wonder about how incidents get magnified in quantity and severity.

 

[WYO]

The New Orleans Times Picayune story from today's paper can be found here: http://www.nola.com/news/t-p/frontpage/index.ssf?/base/news-7/116737516647820.xml&coll=1

 

[gyp_c2]

yup

...please read about these incidents and follow links back to\and including the disarming of citizens...

...I'm waiting for the results of the little old ladys' experience after being forcibly removed from her home...that video on the NRA site is incredible...
Talk about heavy handed...

http://www.givethemback.com/pages/disarmed

 

[Redneck with a 40]

The NOPD has been plagued with corruption for decades, this does not surprise me at all. I would not trust the NOPD as far as I could throw them. As far as the New Orleans gun confiscations go, I'd give them my one crappy jammo-matic gun, let them be on their way, then I would lock and load the rest. After I gave them one gun, they would have zero reason to search my home for others. A little off-topic, but thats my two cents.

 

[jnojr]

Tip 4] Move to eastern Oregon, northern Nevada, Idaho or Alaska.

Replace "eastern Oregon" with Wyoming. eastern Oregon is like much of California... a great area that happens to be ruled by a distant government that's become more Socialist by the day. CA is just much further along in the process.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

I don't think these officers should be given the benefit of the doubt in this case. We know, for a fact, that the police as a whole were guilty of dereliction of duty during Katrina, either by enforcing illegal orders to confiscate firearms, or by simply abandoning their posts. In some cases there are reports of police engaging in looting themselves.

As for this whole business of Katrina victims shooting at rescue workers, helicopters, and the Corps of Engineers, I do not think there is any single documented case of this having actually happened. For example, no helicopter has been shown with a bullet hole, and there are no emergency workers that have come forward to say they were shot at.

 

[Malone LaVeigh]

I know this: The local gangs and thugs found a great opportunity to attack the police and emergency workers. They even fired on rescue helicopters. Local police also used it as an opportunity to be brutal. Civil rights groups will always side with the thugs, while the media and government will always cover-up the severity of police abuse.

Others have already debunked this, but I just had to comment on how many things we "know" about what happened during Katrina. I'm not particularly picking on DTOM, because it's true of a lot of folks that got their info from the media. I guess when you believe the govt and media cover-ups, it's pretty easy to also believe that any civil rights groups that sides with the "thugs" must be wrong. Maybe some people need to re-examine some of their assumptions.