New primer brands?

[Hikingman]

"Known quantity."

Buy the proven brands since we basically know what to expect from many, many documented, proven batches. Find known longstanding brands, acquire them, and pause on new brand(s). Let others innovate without wasting your time (and money).

If those new primer companies had plenty of data with various powders, loads, they would share it. Apparently, they don't.

The new brand(s) have little track record, they are worth a pause. Find the name brands, that is all.

 

[LiveLife]

Buy the proven brands since we basically know what to expect from many, many documented, proven batches.

If those new primer companies had plenty of data with various powders, loads, they would share it. Apparently, they don't. The new brand(s) have little track record, they are worth a pause. Find the name brands, that is all.

While staying with known domestic brands of decades past is a good practice, those in need of primers during component shortages had no choice but to buy whatever primers were available, even having to test unknown foreign brands.

I remembers having to reluctantly test Wolf and Tula Russian primers along with PMC, Magtech, Fiocchi and S&B primers in more recent years because my preferred CCI/Winchester primers were simply "unobtainium". But as THR members have suggested and found out for themselves, slightly larger cup size of Metric primers require greater seating force to seat them fully to pre-load anvil tip against the priming compound or first primer cup strike won't ignite the priming compound.

We recently discussed the reliability of lesser known foreign/Metric primers here with increasing number of THR members reporting relatively reliable to very reliable testing - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-11#post-12576848

FWIW, primers are generally manufactured tough to withstand vibration/shock of long transport and moisture of humid storage conditions.

G&A article covered primer construction and interestingly reliability of primers - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-11#post-12417636

"Based on the SAAMI-specified drop test, statistics will tell you that our [Winchester] primers are 99.9997 percent reliable ... A lead-styphnate primer is probably one of the oldest and most reliable devices on the planet."

Article noted that Black Hills Ammunition (Which uses Winchester primers) who test fires more than 100,000 rounds per year and sells tens of millions of rounds each year, their investigations over the years identified misfires were the result of a defective primer in only a very small number of cases.

"Primers are not perfect — nothing man-made is — but they are very reliable. Statistically, you might encounter a defective primer, if you shoot enough ... 99.9997 percent reliability ... means you might hit a misfire every 300,000 rounds.

Over the years, the average is one rejected primer in about every 250,000, but most of the flaws are minor defects or damage such as slightly out-of-round primers that would have no effect on reliability."

Article attributed most common cause of primer misfires to:

• Insufficient primer cup indent - Primer was not struck with sufficient force from damaged firing pin (bent or chipped tip) or weak/dragging firing-pin spring or dirty/obstructed spring channel.

• Excessive headspace - Straight walled semi-auto cartridge, instead of headspacing off case mouth, shorter case headspace off extractor

• Improper reloading technique - Primer not seated firmly to the bottom of primer pocket moves deeper in the primer pocket when hit by firing pin but anvil tip does not detonate priming compound against the cup

• Shooter/firearm induced misfires - Slide or bolt is not returned to full battery before firing

"... try this demonstration the next time you go to the range. Unload your rifle. Double-check to make sure it is unloaded. Close the bolt, then raise the bolt very slightly. Squeeze the trigger while watching the bolt handle. You can see the bolt handle snap closed. The energy to make that happen is being robbed from the firing-pin velocity and energy normally used to strike the primer."

• Variations in brands and lot numbers - Different brand and lot of primers can vary in sensitivity and primer cup hardness (often by design or source material)

• Contaminated ammunition - Light penetrating oil and long-term storage in damp conditions or submersion in water can desensitize primers

Since misfires due to a defective primer is rare, if you experience a misfire, investigate above list of possible causes to determine the cause to fix the problem.

 

[Blue68f100]

What happens if I use cci large rifle and get 1/2” groups at 100 yds and I switch to a different brand primer? Will it affect groups?

The only way to know is to test. I test different primers after I do a load workup to see if the group changes. Some times it improves the group, sometimes makes it worst and sometimes no change. So test. I do find if I'm shoot bench rest loads, primers do make a difference. Normally the Federal GM Match are the best. But I have some S&B that right with them.

 

[Hikingman]

I guess my point is, there's so much CCI and other brand names sitting on store shelves (and individual sources) within easy reach around here, so why test/ experiment if they are available in your area?

You've got to get away from websites and phone calls if you're having difficulty finding brand name primers at decent prices.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I guess my point is, there's so much CCI and other brand names sitting on store shelves (and individual sources) within easy reach around here, so why test/ experiment if they are available in your area?

The obvious reason would be cost savings.
When I bought my last 10k Genix the price difference between them and CCI was about $25/k...that would be a cost savings of $250.

The other reason is that you might find a better primer. As stated earlier, Genix SPP has replaced CCI SPP in my inventory. On my presses and using my cases, the difference in effort to prime them below flush is negligible...plus Genix have proven to be more sensitive than CCI

Even if I find CCI at my local Sportsman's Warehouse, which limits me to 200 primers per visit, the cost savings would barely cover the gas expended (for multiple trips); as opposed to having them delivered to my door ...all 10k at one time, as opposed to making 50 trips

 

[the Black Spot]

I guess my point is, there's so much CCI and other brand names sitting on store shelves (and individual sources) within easy reach around here, so why test/ experiment if they are available in your area?

You've got to get away from websites and phone calls if you're having difficulty finding brand name primers at decent prices.

My problem is around here they have everything but cci large rifle, and that’s what I use all the time.

 

[westernrover]

What's a decent price at the moment? I haven't bought since 2019 when I bought crates of premium primers at 4 cents. Other primers were 3 cents. I'm realizing a 20% loss in the value of the dollar, so inflation accounts for a current price of 5 cents or so. Anything over that is not inflation. Inflation is not a rise in prices, but an increase in the money supply. Primer prices have risen as a result of constrained supply and heightened demand. Similarly, the rise in prices of M16's and Thompson SMG's to several tens of thousands of dollars is not a result of inflation.

What I'm actually seeing is about 8 cents for domestic brand primers and the purchase of 10,000 is needed to absorb the cost of shipping and hazmat fees which still raise the price-per-unit to 9 cents or more. The online component-finder websites turn up some deals at ~6 cents for imported primers, but they often have limited quantities in stock so that the purchase of one or two boxes of 1000 might be saddled with $50 or $60 in shipping and hazmat fees. Local stores in my area are selling at 10 to 12 cents.

FWIW, the only thing I've considered buying is a few thousand Winchester #41's at 7.5 cents with an 8 pounder of powder to share the hazmat fees. I still have a couple thousand SRM primers and a few pounds of powder, so I'm not anxious to buy yet, but maybe later this year. I'm definitely not restocking my reserves yet, buying crates.

 

[9mmepiphany]

The online component-finder websites turn up some deals at ~6 cents for imported primers, but they often have limited quantities in stock so that the purchase of one or two boxes of 1000 might be saddled with $50 or $60 in shipping and hazmat fees.

The last time I made a purchase of Genix (Bosnian) SPP, I paid 6.7 cents, including shipping and HazMat, for 10k delivered to my door. I checked recently and they were down to 6.4 cents. I didn't pay any special attention, but I think their limit was five (5) boxes per order...so 25k primers per order

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

It really depends on what you’re looking for though. Most of the posters here who buy a lot are competitors. All they care about is SP or SR for 9mm/5.56mm - small format primers are the most common, most available and therefore least expensive. LR are pricey when you find them. LP are the least popular so they’re also the least produced - y’all know what that means for prices and availability. You pay for large format primers or give up shooting what you like and join the herd.

 

[dannyd]

Well first thing, I don't care how long a person has been reloading, I want to know their round count. Because there is a big difference in knowledge from a person that loads 500 rounds a year and a person that loads 12,000 rounds a year.

But, on a very serious note, Please stop buying Foreign Primers because then the price will go down more.

 

[Ohen Cepel]

Well first thing, I don't care how long a person has been reloading, I want to know their round count. Because there is a big difference in knowledge from a person that loads 500 rounds a year and a person that loads 12,000 rounds a year.

I would disagree a little bit. There are people who load 500 high quality, hand loaded rounds a year who know much more than a person who filled a machine with components and it loaded 12,000 good rounds.

 

[dannyd]

I would disagree a little bit. There are people who load 500 high quality, hand loaded rounds a year who know much more than a person who filled a machine with components and it loaded 12,000 good rounds.

If you shoot 500 rounds a year that's great, but people that shoot 10,000 to 12,000 rounds a year have to try new equipment and new ideas to keep shooting.

Right now the foreign primers work just as good for me as the 22,000 plus CCI primers I have used.

I don't exactly fill a machine, I reload just about everyday of the week.

 

[2ndtimer]

I guess my point is, there's so much CCI and other brand names sitting on store shelves (and individual sources) within easy reach around here, so why test/ experiment if they are available in your area?

You've got to get away from websites and phone calls if you're having difficulty finding brand name primers at decent prices.

Be thankful you live in an area where they are readily available. Not everyone is so fortunate. I have not seen primers on a shelf locally for two years, despite living in an area that has around 250,000 residents in 3 close together cities. The local Sportsman's Warehouse has been the only occasional source, and they limit purchases to two sleeves per customer per day. I keep hoping they will eventually have enough stock to allow purchasers to buy a brick of 1000 (or 1500 if Fiocchi) at a time. Maybe some day....

 

[dannyd]

Be thankful you live in an area where they are readily available. Not everyone is so fortunate. I have not seen primers on a shelf locally for two years, despite living in an area that has around 250,000 residents in 3 close together cities. The local Sportsman's Warehouse has been the only occasional source, and they limit purchases to two sleeves per customer per day. I keep hoping they will eventually have enough stock to allow purchasers to buy a brick of 1000 (or 1500 if Fiocchi) at a time. Maybe some day....

We are the same way, I haven't purchased primers locally in 30 years except for the local range on the odd chance they have some. Order online almost always, so I use Ammoseek to find venders.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

If you shoot 500 rounds a year that's great, but people that shoot 10,000 to 12,000 rounds a year have to try new equipment and new ideas to keep shooting.

Right now the foreign primers work just as good for me as the 22,000 plus CCI primers I have used.

I don't exactly fill a machine, I reload just about everyday of the week.

Well, once again, broad definitive opinion based entirely on one’s own self appraisal and the assumption that the writer is a true expert - probably the only true expert in the world - on the subject. I think I’ve got a pretty good idea of the posters level of expertise and knowledge.
Thanks for telling us all how incompetent we are. ‘Preciate it, Bubba.

 

[dannyd]

Well, once again, broad definitive opinion based entirely on one’s own self appraisal and the assumption that the writer is a true expert - probably the only true expert in the world - on the subject. I think I’ve got a pretty good idea of the posters level of expertise and knowledge.
Thanks for telling us all how incompetent we are. ‘Preciate it, Bubba.

That's not it; people on these boards give opinions on things they have never tried; I don't do that because it doesn't help.

I never chime in on anything I don't use, that's why I only have a little over 700 posts in almost 13 years.

If we are talking about a press that's not a Dillion someone always chimes in "The Press Has to be a Dillion" doesn't matter if they have ever used the other press or not.

What help is that; just like the primers if you have used them chime in that's your experience with the product, but just saying I only use this product in a conversation about a whole different product really doesn't help.

Been shooting almost 60 years and reloading 34 years; now I have gotten into Red Dots sights, my instructor could be my grandson, but he knows how to use a Red Dot and his instructions have helped Immensely.

I still learn something new about reloading and shooting everyday and when the day comes I don't I will move to something else.

 

[Copter19]

I've been using ginex for the past year. No problems with them.
They seem a bit softer, and I no longer get light primer strikes on one of my revolvers which used to happen with cci.

I have had issues with the Ginex small pistol primers going in new brass primmer pockets. About 5% of the Ginex primmers will not fit in the primmer pocket and crush.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I have had issues with the Ginex small pistol primers going in new brass primmer pockets. About 5% of the Ginex primmers will not fit in the primmer pocket and crush.

The takeaway from that should be, "Don't use metric primers in new brass."I've heard of them being a little tight, but I would think .001" difference would be enough to cause them to "crush."

Which brand of new brass are you having this issue with?

I sort brass by headstamp avoid loading them into military cases. I also avoid using them with G.F.L. and S&B cases. They load very smoothly into Blazer and LAX cases...but none of my cases are new

 

[KB Hill]

Have seated approx 500 Ginex in new starline cases and many more in range brass (not GFL or S&B). They needed a spritz of One Shot to make seating semi-reasonable in the new brass. They go in much easier the second time around. For me they have been 100% - both seating and firing.

Question - Can they expand the primer pocket making non-metric primers too loose in subsequent reloads?

 

[Walkalong]

Question - Can they expand the primer pocket making non-metric primers too loose in subsequent reloads?

That's a good question. I doubt it, they are soft thin brass compared to a beefy primer pocket.

 

[dannyd]

Have seated approx 500 Ginex in new starline cases and many more in range brass (not GFL or S&B). They needed a spritz of One Shot to make seating semi-reasonable in the new brass. They go in much easier the second time around. For me they have been 100% - both seating and firing.

Question - Can they expand the primer pocket making non-metric primers too loose in subsequent reloads?

I used a primer pocket uniformer before switching to just One Shot.

The Uniforming of the pocket did help, but not much more than the One Shot.

So, now I just use a little One Shot and that makes everything run smoother.

 

[Copter19]

The takeaway from that should be, "Don't use metric primers in new brass."I've heard of them being a little tight, but I would think .001" difference would be enough to cause them to "crush."

Which brand of new brass are you having this issue with?

I sort brass by headstamp avoid loading them into military cases. I also avoid using them with G.F.L. and S&B cases. They load very smoothly into Blazer and LAX cases...but none of my cases are new

The cases were new starline 38 spl +P

 

[9mmepiphany]

The cases were new starline 38 spl +P

I've found Starline primer pockets usually pretty tight and a bit deeper...makes it easier to see that your primers are below flush

 

[BlankRow]

I have had issues with the Ginex small pistol primers going in new brass primmer pockets. About 5% of the Ginex primmers will not fit in the primmer pocket and crush.

What caused the crushed primers, was the primer pocket too shallow, or was the diameter too small, or both?

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The primers you listed aren't really new, just new to our market.

I can highly recommend Fiocchi primers for sure. I have found Magtech to work well too.