new rifle suggestions? maybe a bullpup?

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jason41987

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well, ive been collecting old rifles for a while now.. usually old military, have an AK... and i think its time i spoil myself when prices come back down and actually buy something a bit more "modern" if you will

so im looking at some of the new monolithic rifles and the bullpups but i would like to keep the price tag at under $2k

of the rifles im looking at, im looking at the robarms XCR, and a sig-551 (not new, but can still go toe to toe with any of them).. as well as the 3 primary bullpup designs you see on the market, the steyr aug (not new, but was way ahead of its time, and battle proven) as well as the FS2000 and now IWI is building civilian tavor rifles (civilian versions of the isreali tar-21)

now some people hate bullpups, some enjoy them, but for myself i like variety.. and lets face it, no one really uses a battle rifle, or even a full length rifle anymore, militaries worldwide have all been leaning more towards the smaller, more compact designs so im REALLY considering one of the above mentioned bullpups, but the XCR has been catching my attention to, essentially being the ACR/SCAR style but with its roots based in the AK-47 as opposed to the M16 which being an AK shooter makes this a rather attractive design

having something i can change barrels with without special tools would be nice too.. i mean, it doesnt have to be quick, doesnt have to be completely tool-less (because lets face it, whos going to carry extra barrels and bolts on them just in case they for some reason need a rapid barrel change) i mean... huh?.. 20 minutes on my home work bench is plenty good enough

i know the XCR has this feature, i know the IWI tavor has this feature, im not so sure about the FS2000, but i believe the AUGs barrel changes pretty simply too, though i could be wrong (anything that doesnt require headspacing, a shop press, or a vise id consider to be quick enough in changing calibers)

so.. with this in mind, what would you buy and why?... at this point im leaning more towards the IWI tavor or the XCR over the others
 
I went with the FS2000 last year and I still am liking and shooting it. I ran the FS2k at our local rifle match this month and it performed perfectly. The longer barrel and flatter trajectory made longer distance hits easier and it being so short made it easy to maneuver around barricades.

To pull the barrel on a FS you need a 2.5mm hex driver to remove the screws that hold the two halves of the upper receiver together. After that the halves just pry apart. The barrel extension carries the trunnions that support the barrel at the rear, there is another support at the front that's trapped between the gas block and the barrel extension.

The FN SCAR also has a quick change barrel. 6 Torx 25 captive screws are loosened and then the free floated barrel just drops out.

BSW
 
so about how long do you think it would be to convert an FS2000 to other cartridges?.. its an interesting design, especially considering it ejects from the front, and with a close dust cover you get 4-5 shots before a case even comes out which means firing on a line it would be cool to not even have to retrieve your brass... how much did you pay for yours?
 
Check this one out Jason .... AR chambered in 30-06.

bkg_middle.jpg


Thoughts?
 
You might be able to make a barrel blank in a compatable caliber work, but you'd have to swap barrel extensions or have on custom made. The FS2k barrel extension locks into the lower at two points. The good thing is that the gas port on a FS is adjustable. You simply replace the gas control screw with a different one

You also would have to use metal mags that fit the FS2000's magwell, which is deeper than standard.

I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but I have nowhere enough time and money to try.

BSW
 
i heard the FS2000 really doesnt handle dirt well once it gets inside.. that in order to counter that they designed the rifle as best they could to be completely sealed from the environments?
 
yeah, im not going to waste my money on something as so fundamentally flawed as an AR15/10 in any caliber
 
Well, the AK is also well sealed against the environment (mag in, safety on) and it handles garbage in it just fine.

From observation, the FS2000 has minimal contact between the bolt carrier and its rail, which lends to better function with junk in the weapon as debris can be pushed out of the way and has a place to fall where it won't cause the action or FCG to jam. The bolt and carrier are fairly tightly fitted together but, since it uses a short stroke gas piston the bolt and bolt carrier doesn't dry out like the AR. Oily dirt is less likely to cause a stoppage than dry dirt. Plus, if the weapon gets sluggish you can switch the gas regulator to 'adverse' and blow more gas into the weapon.

And the action is very well sealed against infiltration by debris.

I haven't personally done a dust or mud test with mine. Send me a FS2000 and I'll see f I can get it to jam with dirt and or mud.

BSW
 
I've most of the readily available bullpups and consider the FS2000 the best -- if you can get past its "Stargate" looks :)

Everyone that shoots it, loves it, until they hear the price :(
 
It is my understanding that the U.S. military never adopted a bullpup design, because of problems associated with magazine changes, not being fluid.
Just a thought.
 
The first rifle the Army adopted that had provisions for smooth mag changes was also the last rifle the Army adopted, the M16.

Mag changes are pretty quick on the FS: off hand sweeps up and hits the mag release with the edge of the hand while grabbing the mag, pull the mag down and stow or drop, new mag in well, tug down to ensure it's seated, run CH if necessary.

The FS's charging handle is much easier to get to w/o breaking position on the rifle than the AR's too.

BSW
 
As for mag changes, they don't seem any slower or any less intuitive on a bull pup, the Aug and tavor are both quite battle proven, just requires a small tweak to habit I guess... Until red dot sites were common bull pup sights did suck, I think this is why the original augs had a low power scope integrated.. Maybe this was a factor?
 
I have an AUG A3 and love it. 90% of the parts are Austrian made by Steyr. They're extremely reliable and balance incredibly well. The AUG mags are the best 5.56 ever made, come in 30 and 42 round, and have been polymer since long before Magpul ever existed. There is also an AUG stock that takes STANAG mags but i consider it a downgrade. The AUG barrel change mechanism is the simplest and fastest in existence. The AUG A3 seems to have eally taken off and there is talk about different barrel lengths becoming available, different calibers and even a 9mm conversion kit. The talk has been going on a while but the different barrels will probably happen fairly soon. The new A3's also come standard with an FN CHF barrel. Spare parts are also readily available.

I also have an MSAR too but quality wise it doesn't compare. It is probably the best chance for multi caliber options though. The barrel assembly plunger on mine has too much play so the thing has very poor accuracy.

The Tavor has caught my eye but i learned my lesson about early buying with the sig556 so i'm gona wait to see how they play out. It is an awesome design but the question is how well made will the american version be compared oto the original. I'm not sure if there is a practical way to swap the barrels and given how early it is i don't expect options to be available any time soon.
 
Sturmgewehr oon YouTube does a very good review on the favor and quality seems very high.. Barrel comes out after removing a screw I beleive .. I'm not sure how aftermarket will take off yet though

Anyone ever notice the aug seemed to have been perfectly matched with red dot sights about 20 years before they came out with I'm not emphasis on being ambidextrous and modular with easy barrel changes decades before the acr/scar type rifles? It was so ahead of its time that it seems everyone else is just now catching up to...

Im not so sure I like the f2000, doesn't it use plastic trigger components?
 
Sturmgewehr oon YouTube does a very good review on the favor and quality seems very high.. Barrel comes out after removing a screw I beleive .. I'm not sure how aftermarket will take off yet though
Click to expand...

I'm not gona rely on a sample size of one to make my decision when it comes to spending $2K. I read countless early reviews of the sig556 that were glowing but my experience was quite different. I am curious as to what parts are american made in the tavor though. The other quesiton is regarding parts in the long run and service today. It may be top notch from day one but i just don't want to be the one that finds out otherwise.

Anyone ever notice the aug seemed to have been perfectly matched with red dot sights about 20 years before they came out with I'm not emphasis on being ambidextrous and modular with easy barrel changes decades before the acr/scar type rifles? It was so ahead of its time that it seems everyone else is just now catching up to...
Click to expand...

How's the AUG any more well matched with red dots than any other 5.56 of yesterday?

It's quick change barrel mechanism is still ahead of it's time when one considers no tools are needed and just how fast and easy it is.

Im not so sure I like the f2000, doesn't it use plastic trigger components?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure aout the FN but the AUG has mostly polymer trigger components and it is completley reliable.
 
The FS2000 trigger pack looks like a almost direct copy of the AUG trigger group. The only metal in it is the pins, springs, and the drop safety. The actual trigger and safety are plastic also. The trigger rods that connect the trigger to the trigger pack are metal.

The F2000 (military full auto) uses the same plastic hammer and sear, along with extra parts. After about 1000 rounds thru mine there is no appreciable wear in the sear or hammer.

BSW
 
The Aug went with the low power scope because at the time their only other option was open sights with an extremely short radius, red dot would have been better but wasn't exactly around yet..

Is IWI actually affiliated with the Israeli factory or do they buy samples of Israeli firearms and copy them?

As for the f2000 trigger pack, I'm sure eventually someone will make steel trigger packs? They look simple to replace
 
I recently tried both the Steyr Aug A3 and the PS90. Both were superfun to shoot. Wasn't a huge fan of the sight on the PS90, but the lack of ANY recoil was nice. Overall, I think I preferred the Aug, but I may be biased since I used to live in Austria and thought they were cool back then. I did think the front grip gave me more control than the weird looking front grip of the PS90. Didn't hurt that the Aug had a Trijicon SOG sight. That thing would make any gun sweet...

Was never much of a bull-pup fan until now. Think I've been won over somewhat! (Did I mention we also shot a KSG shotgun?)

:D
 
well, i guess so many people being used to AR15s and AKs just never feel right with a bullpup, they do feel quite different with all that weight shifted rearward... but i dont see anything wrong with a good battle proven design like the aug.. might take some getting used to for it to feel completely right though

basically, im looking to get out of this AR15/AK drama, im not a fan of the AR15 at all, and have an AK already, and theyre not without their problems either.. would love to get a sig-551 at some point, however, barrels are about as much of a pain in the rear to switch as with an AK, so i wouldnt be able to play around with alternative calibers very much with those...

id really like the XCR if it improved upon all aspects of the AR15... which it does not, it still uses the same magazines (G36 or AUG mags would have made it perfect) and not using them shows they care more about pandering to the AR15 crowd than real improvements... that being said the FS2000 and tavor both use the AR15 mags..

can anyone thing of any design that was truly an improvement over the AR15s and AKs that changing the barrel for could be done with hand tools? (yes the sig is a big improvement, but requires shop tools to change a barrel (and probably headspacing too), right now the AUG is the only thing that comes to mind
 
basically, im looking to get out of this AR15/AK drama
Click to expand...

Huh, what drama? Just shoot what you enjoy shooting.

can anyone thing of any design that was truly an improvement over the AR15s and AKs that changing the barrel for could be done with hand tools? (yes the sig is a big improvement, but requires shop tools to change a barrel (and probably headspacing too), right now the AUG is the only thing that comes to mind
Click to expand...

The SCAR but good luck getting different barrels.

The LMT monolithic AR has easily changed barrels and various different sizes available.

I actually read a small blurb in the back of a gun magazine about Sig coming out with a 556 with removable barrel but this was well over a year ago and haven't seen anything since.

Either way, no barrel change is quicker or easier than that of the AUG and until somebody invents a gun that changes its own on voice command none ever will be.
 
hey.. found another rifle thats caught my attention, its pretty new though, not even out on the market but indications show this manufacturer will be making civilian models as soon as theyve supplied their own military with them.. its the CZ-805 bren... barrels changes fairly simply, interchangable magwells, standard mags being more of the G36 type... kind of has that ACR/SCAR vibe going but taking out the AR15 hiccups they have and adopting some ideas from the G36.. i like it, but it might be a few years before they hit the civilian market
 
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