The infamous .38 round

[ArchAngelCD]

Applied correctly and often enough even a pellet gun will make the bad guy go away. (unless the BG has a bigger gun and shoots back)

This is based on a story I read recently where a 12 year old boy protected his mom from a home intruder by shooting him in the face MANY times until he ran away. (good kid!) If I were her I would get that boy a .22 rifle right a way!!!

 

[JoelSteinbach]

I keep a loaded 38special in every room of my house, along with a few 12ga pumps, OK call me neurotic, I would say ready

 

[sirsloop]

Where the level 3 body armor and flashbangs at?

 

[Cosmoline]

I keep a loaded 38special in every room of my house, along with a few 12ga pumps,

? Why not just carry *one* handgun. A firearm you leave around is one that can be used against you, unless you actually have a bunch of gun safes around.

 

[Tcruse]

I suspect that there will always be "discussions" over wheel gun vs semi-automatic. I have tried to like revolvers a couple of times, just could never find anything to like. They have short sight radius, take much too much effort to reload, are heavy, bad trigger and only a few rounds ready to shoot. In fact they are necessarily more reliable or have fewer parts.

The main goal for a new shooter is to practice enough to be able to place the shots at the desired locations. A revolver is just not that easy to get that practice, they are not enjoyable to shoot. So, I think that the vast majority of new gun owners should be using thinking semi-automatic. I also think that it is best to go more in the compact size rather than the super small. Not sure if a 380 ACP is enough less recoil or size to make a noticeable difference from a 9X19. Also, there is a cost difference where the 9 mm shooter is likely to get more practice than the more costly 380 ACP.

A .22 is also a good idea for general practice alone with your carry gun.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I suspect that there will always be "discussions" over wheel gun vs semi-automatic. I have tried to like revolvers a couple of times, just could never find anything to like. They have short sight radius, take much too much effort to reload, are heavy, bad trigger and only a few rounds ready to shoot. In fact they are necessarily more reliable or have fewer parts.

The main goal for a new shooter is to practice enough to be able to place the shots at the desired locations. A revolver is just not that easy to get that practice, they are not enjoyable to shoot. So, I think that the vast majority of new gun owners should be using thinking semi-automatic. I also think that it is best to go more in the compact size rather than the super small. Not sure if a 380 ACP is enough less recoil or size to make a noticeable difference from a 9X19. Also, there is a cost difference where the 9 mm shooter is likely to get more practice than the more costly 380 ACP.

There is so much in your post I can't agree with... I respect your opinion because it's right for you but really, a revolver isn't enjoyable to shoot??? I really like revolvers and I only own 2 semi-autos, all the rest are revolver of all types and sizes. My daily carry is a M442 in .38 Special. I wouldn't be without a revolver and there are many who feel the same. It's all a matter of preference but many feel revolvers are very enjoyable to shoot.

At the range I shoot at least 300 rounds of .38 Special weekly. At least 50 are in my carry revolver with an additional 20 rounds of my carry ammo. I could go on but I think I got my opinion across...

 

[JRH6856]

Tcruse, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion and your choice in what you shoot. But to project your opinion and choices as being what is best for everyone? Hardly. Your opinions are apparently based on your needs for a concealed carry weapon. Concealed carry and personal defense are not the only purpose for a handgun.

Revolvers do not have a short sight radius because they are revolvers. As with semi-autos, it depends on barrel length. My Security Six has a 7.5" sight radious which is the same as my 1911. The Security Six is longer than the 1911. It would be accurate to say that fore a given barrel length, revolvers generally have a shorter sight radius.

Revolvers can be extremely enjoyable to shoot, especially for new shooters. Revolvers will handle a wider range of ammo than semi-autos, from light target loads to full blown magnums, so a new shooter can start with light loads and progress to more powerful ones as skill and confidence allows. Revolvers can even fire primer only practice rounds with full functionality, allowing you to practice shooting in your garage. A semi-auto can't do this.

Limited capacity? 5 to 7 rounds is adequate according to FBI statistics. Difficult to reload? Not so much with speedloaders but as with any manual technique, practice helps.

From the standpoint of CCW, semi-autos certainly offer more options but for versatility and general purpose use, a revolver is more flexible. I shoot both, and enjoy shooting both. YMMV.

 

[frankmako]

either/or for the three. but for a new shooter i would lean toward the 38 special. after a while the new shooter could move over to an auto. all three rounds will do the job. it is shot placement and shots on target that works no matter the cal.

 

[JFrame]

But Bond's preferred gun was a .25ACP Beretta. M ORDERED 007 to carry the Walther in the larger caliber, referring to the .25 as a "lady's gun". Bond could hit what he aimed at, though.

British spy novelists seemed to have a bit of a penchant for .25 autos. In The Secret Ways, Alistair McLean had American agent Michael Reynolds armed with a .25 Lilliput. Of course, the auto was highly concealable -- but McLean did also allow that Reynolds could (IIRC) hit a hand-sized target in semi-darkness, 20 out of 20 times, at 10 paces...


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[WYOMan]

The .38 has had a bad rap in this country since the Phillipines in 1899.

 

[Tcruse]

Tcruse, you are, of course, entitled to your opinion and your choice in what you shoot. But to project your opinion and choices as being what is best for everyone? Hardly. Your opinions are apparently based on your needs for a concealed carry weapon. Concealed carry and personal defense are not the only purpose for a handgun.

Revolvers do not have a short sight radius because they are revolvers. As with semi-autos, it depends on barrel length. My Security Six has a 7.5" sight radious which is the same as my 1911. The Security Six is longer than the 1911. It would be accurate to say that fore a given barrel length, revolvers generally have a shorter sight radius.

Revolvers can be extremely enjoyable to shoot, especially for new shooters. Revolvers will handle a wider range of ammo than semi-autos, from light target loads to full blown magnums, so a new shooter can start with light loads and progress to more powerful ones as skill and confidence allows. Revolvers can even fire primer only practice rounds with full functionality, allowing you to practice shooting in your garage. A semi-auto can't do this.

Limited capacity? 5 to 7 rounds is adequate according to FBI statistics. Difficult to reload? Not so much with speedloaders but as with any manual technique, practice helps.

From the standpoint of CCW, semi-autos certainly offer more options but for versatility and general purpose use, a revolver is more flexible. I shoot both, and enjoy shooting both. YMMV.

I can see your point of view and certainly do not expect to change very many minds of people that enjoy revolvers. I will also state right up front that my opinion is based on my personal experience and observations.
1) I have seen several people claim that their revolver is more accurate. So, I look at what they shot with that "more accurate" revolver and then what they shot with a semi-automatic. In the last three cases (different people, different ranges) the semi-automatic targets were shot at longer distances and looked noticeably smaller grouping than the revolver targets. So, a lot of this stuff is subjective and not measurable.
2) I went to a range last week with a friend that took a revolver that he liked and had owned for a long time. So, I shot it and did not do well, maybe 4" group at 8 yards. He shot it and did better, maybe 3" group at 8 yards but several inches from the center of target. He is not a fan of Glock or any "plastic" guns. However, he shot sub-1 inch groups with the Glock 17.
3) Here in Texas it really does not make sense for new CCW students to qualify with a revolver, since then they can only carry a revolver. If they qualify with a semi-automatic then they can carry either.
4) I see/hear this all of the time, "If you're not going to train regularly, do not buy a semi-automatic handgun". I agree with the statement, however if you are not serious enough to train regularly, should you have a handgun? IMHO, a gun becomes a liability when you do not KNOW its condition, condition of the ammo, or your ability to use the said firearm. For over 20 years, my only gun was a revolver sitting in my sock drawer. It was a liability. After that extended time, I made the decision to dispose of the left over ammo and gun rather than risk shooting it. As a side note, my Glock and Ruger pistols get used multiple times every month.

As far as round count, in most cases 1 or 2 will be all that would ever be shot in self defense. So, the larger round count is a mute point in the "average" case. However, I can not come up with a single case where a person has had too-much ammo.

The only advantage for a revolver that I can think of is the case where you shoot when the gun is in your coat pocket. Assuming, that the gun does not set your coat on fire you may have the chance of a second shot with a revolver without clearing a jam. I not sure that shooting with the gun in your pocket would be a good idea in any case.

As for comparison, I have a special feeling for 70's Fords with 351 Cleveland motors. I would not want to replace my everyday modern vehicles with them however.

Some interesting views:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/concealed_pistols.htm
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=40414
http://www.christiangunowner.com/revolver_or_pistol.html
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/02/brad-kozak/choosing-a-handgun-part-i-revolver-vs-semi-auto/

 

[JFrame]

The .38 has had a bad rap in this country since the Phillipines in 1899.

Yup -- and that was with a cartridge inferior to the .38 special...


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[wanderinwalker]

I'd hesitate to include the .380 ACP in the same class as the .38 Special and 9mm. While paper ballistics make the .38 and .380 equal, the .38 Special has a pretty big advantage in bullet weight (158gr versus 95gr).

As for revolver or semi-auto, pick your poison and learn to use. There's no magic bullet or perfect platform. It's all up the end user to learn how to manage the system and make the most of it. Or as I like to think, put the bullets where they need to go and caliber will take care of itself.

Me? I'm pretty comfortable with either a 9mm or a .38/357 revolver. For a new shooter I have trouble saying one over the other. Go with whichever one strikes your fancy. And then learn to be able to shoot it like this:



(That's 25-yds Double Action with a 4" S&W 586. I'm not sure that load is the best accuracy load either. I can shoot my Glock 17 about as well and would be confident trying to do that with a solid 1911.)

 

[JRH6856]

Tcruse, most of the advantages you cite for semi-autos are related to personal defense and concealed carry. And as I said, within the limits of that application, semi-autos offer more options and some of those options offer actual advantages.

But one gun does not exemplify an entire class. If your friend's revolver could not group less than 3 inches at 8 yards, it could just be that particular gun, or the load being used, or the ability of the shooter, or the type of shooting. For someone not used to shooting a revolver DA, it might require some practice to refine the technique.

I have a semi-auto that won't stay on the paper at 7.5 yards. It isn't because it is a semi-auto, it is because it is a 100 year old .25 auto with a worn out barrel.

As for new shooters, the first time my wife fired a gun of any time, it was a Colt Police Positive, 38 special. She cut a 2" group at 25 yard. Then she did it again. When she tried DA fire the group went to 3".

A good revolver with the right load can group within an inch at 50 yards. Happens all the time in Bullseye competition. And revolvers are used more often then semi-autos in metallic silhouette competition and are accurate out to 100-200 yards.

Revolvers are not the best choice for everyone, neither are semi-autos. Both have their place. (As for recommending revolvers for someone who is not going to practice a lot, I would recommend a 20ga shotgun if they absolutely have to have a gun.)

 

[Agsalaska]

This is going to sound absolutely crazy but, For what its worth, the most accurate pistol I own and have ever shot is a Taurus snubnosed 38. I bought it used from a gun shop in Alaska for $200. It was in perfect as new condition when I bought it. A buddy of mine and I took it along with several other guns down to the range. We were amazed at how accurate it was. So a few weeks later we took it along with two other guys to the bigger range outside eagle river. We probably had 20 handguns including a Kahr k40, 2 or 3 glocks, a colt python, a Remington Rand 1911, A Kimber 1911, and several others. The Taurus, out to 15-20 yard range, outshot or equaled them all. And it did so for all four of us. We were absolutely amazed. One of the gun shop employees didnt believe us. I cant say I blame him so we went later that week to the Bird Creek range. I tried to bet him guns but he thought better of it. He was able to outshoot it with a Competition 1911(I think it was a Wilson Combat) when he passed 15 yards.

Craziest thing I have ever seen. I know it is certainly not the norm for a Taurus revolver. Nothing wrong with them but they are not manufactured to be that accurate. But this one is. Makes you wonder how that happened in the process. They probably made 10,000 of them that year. I got the best one. Haha. It is loaded in my bedroom and occasionally goes for a ride with me.



Edit-I forgot to add. I am guessing year of manufacture is probably 1995-1999. Just a guess though.

 

[thecarfarmer]

@ Lost Sheep, since you asked...

Chuck Norris is as relevant to a firearms discussion as James Bond. Mr. Norris played a Texas Ranger on TV (incidentally, it is rumored that he can divide by zero and also fathered the men who would go on to comprise the 1972 Miami Dolphins team...); James Bond is a character created by Ian Flemming, based more than slightly on the life on one particular British agent, known as Sidney Riley. Bond's proclivities towards enjoying the affection of numerous women, sharp dressing, and taking superhuman risks were all attributes also shared by the real-life Riley.

But, Bond is still a fictional character; the question posed was regarding a real-life choice between .38 spl, .380, or 9mm:

So what does the group think about these three rounds, what's the best CCW round?

9X18 Mak should also be an effective round, but it's not as easy to find here in the Seattle area as 9 Luger, or even .380. The cheapest I ever find it for is like maybe $18.00 per box, unless I buy steel-cased (which indoor ranges seem to have a problem with). Just personal opinion here, but I'd think availability should have some bearing on ammo choice.

(an aside note, while my G21 is down, I'm using my PA-63 as my CCW piece, but I reload for it, and the store 2 miles from home carries ammo in stock)

If the "average" gunfight lasts only a few shots total between to parties; why wouldn't a guy want every shot to be as hard-hitting as would allow him to re-acquire the target? Why limit oneself to those original choices.380/.38/.357/9mm group?

I'd consider 10mm, .40 cal, and .45ACP to all have some advantage over those calibers. Of course there's 'spicier' ones like .44 Mag, .454 Casull, and .50 cal used in the Desert Eagle pistols, but the question is: will a CCW gun actually be chambered for them?

-Bill

 

[thecarfarmer]

Applied correctly and often enough even a pellet gun will make the bad guy go away. (unless the BG has a bigger gun and shoots back)

This is based on a story I read recently where a 12 year old boy protected his mom from a home intruder by shooting him in the face MANY times until he ran away. (good kid!) If I were her I would get that boy a .22 rifle right a way!!!

Sad to hear a kid had to face that kind of terrifying thing, but heartwarming to hear that he stepped up and got the super-deluxe Platinum edition of "Man Card" issued!

-Bill

 

[JRH6856]

Of course there's 'spicier' ones like .44 Mag, .454 Casull, and .50 cal used in the Desert Eagle pistols, but the question is: will a CCW gun actually be chambered for them?

The next question, if there were a CCW gun for thise calibers, who would want to shoot it? Besides the issue of recoil and recovery, a major problem with those larger calibers in a CCW package is the muzzle flash from a short barrel with full house loads.

Probably the smallest package chambered for the .454 Casull is the Taurus Raging Judge with a 3" barrel, and it stretches the limits of concealability (of course, Dirty Harry carried a N frame S&W but he was fictional )