As I’m seeing more and more “no weapons allowed” signs being put up by businesses (mostly with corporate headquarters outside the state), I figured that I’d post this… [even to an old thread]
First this is
NOT a legally binding opinion…I am
NOT an attorney, I have never taken classes at a law school, but I am fairly educated in general, and have taken the time to educate myself on this subject. Additionally, I have received some advice from various lawyers on how to interpret the law,** among other things. I read the entire bill when it was passed (including several of the different iterations of the bill as it was going through the debate) additionally, I have read through several of the legal opinions/interpretations that I have found (see a few references below). What is also important to note here is that until a case, or multiple cases, actually go to court, we won’t have an opinion that REALLY matters. Until that time, all you have is a bunch of (sometimes) overpaid attorneys blowing a bunch of hot air. But for what it’s worth (not much) here’s my (current) interpretation
**(No new law stand on its own. You have to interpret it within the context of ALL other current law that the new law doesn’t specifically overturn. If you find two different current laws that seem to contradict each other, for lawyers, they “can’t” really contradict each other. They BOTH have to be right, so it’s the job of the lawyers/court to come up with an interpretation of the two laws, together, that makes both true).
Unless I missed something in their wording, Target’s recent statement (and other companies, such as chipotle, issuing similar statements) is NOT a statement saying that they are not going to
PERMIT their patrons to carry firearms… they are statements saying that they would “
prefer” for you to not bring a firearm into their establishment… but they ARE also saying that they intend to follow the law in each jurisdiction that they have a facility. So if it is legal then you can legally carry, but they would prefer that you don’t….
But, there still seem to be some questions….
I have come to the (current) conclusion that, IF YOU HAVE A CONCEALED WEAPON PERMIT… and you are in the State of ALABAMA… the “no gun” or “no weapons allowed” signs
at public places of business have no legal standing as a barrier to stop you from bringing a
CONCEALED firearm onto the premises (with certain exceptions)… but private property rights do apply and
IF they find that you are carrying, they can ask you to leave and you will have to leave, at least until such time as you can remove the firearm from the premises.
I really wish that the law was more clear as you have to nitpick everything to get every nuance… but this seems to be the basic guideline
If it’s a government owned facility you probably can’t carry unless you are law enforcement. There is a definite question to the differences between public places of business and government businesses that aren’t in governmental buildings (such as DMV satellite offices, Water & Electric utility company, etc)
If it’s a public place of business the assumption is that you can carry…unless they prohibit you… and that prohibition comes in layers
1) Target / Chipotle type statement… no basis in law… you can still legally carry, openly or concealed… that being said, Don’t carry openly, it will only cause you grief and may lead to a stronger response (ie don’t screw it up for everybody else)
2) “No Weapons Allowed” sign on the outside (a statement of mall policies 50 feet inside doesn’t count except maybe to placate the insurance companies). This will prohibit under law any open carry but will not LEGALLY prohibit conceal carry… THAT being said they might be able to charge you with “criminal trespassing” or possibly “disturbing the peace” because you aren’t following the rules of the establishment. Of course they’ll only know if your firearm somehow becomes un-concealed… and that should only happen if your life or someone else’s life is being threatened by a “bad guy”… in that case, a charge of criminal trespassing is going to be the least of your concerns.
3) Gates with armed guards, turnstyles, key card entry, etc. They can prohibit open and conceal carry and it will carry the force of law… but technically it’s a misdemeanor that hasn’t been fully defined, so a lot will be left up to the judge on the punishment…
Do also note that a permit may be revoked by law enforcement at any time,
for any reason… so if you were in an area where it would be unlawful to carry if you did not have a permit (such as a movie theater or a bank with a newly placed sign on the outside) and somehow the management finds out that you are carrying… and a cop gets involved, he can revoke your license on the spot and now you would be carrying in a place where it is legally forbidden without a permit, and you no longer have a permit.
REFERENCES
an excerpt from:
http://www.maynardcooper.com/resources/newsletters/143
2013-05-24
A Business Guide to Alabama's New Gun Law
• download this newsletter as a PDF
On May 22, 2013, Alabama Governor signed Senate Bill 286, the omnibus gun bill originally introduced by Senator Scott Beason. The bill became Act 2013-283 and will become effective on August 1, 2013.
……..
Rules for Businesses Without Security and a Barrier
Prior Alabama law included a provision that prohibited any person from carrying a pistol onto property that he or she did not own. This provision had been called into question, though, and certainly was rarely enforced. SB286 amended this code provision to allow a person to possess a pistol on someone else’s property if the person has either a concealed weapons permit or the consent of the owner.
Thus, a business that allows members of the public access to its building may prohibit a person from openly carrying a holstered pistol into the building, but it may not prohibit a person with a concealed weapons permit from carrying his or her concealed pistol into the building.
What constitutes the consent of the owner is a matter for debate. Some argued during discussion of the legislation that consent required an affirmative action or statement by the business that weapons were permitted. Others argued that the failure to specifically prohibit weapons should be viewed as implied consent.
A business that seeks to prohibit openly carried holstered pistols in its building therefore may want to consider posting a sign stating that firearms are not permitted on the property.
Note again, however, that such a prohibition will not prevent a person with a concealed weapons permit from bringing his or her concealed pistol into the facility.
Also reference:
Additional references
http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/alabama.pdf
http://www.alabamaprosecutor.com/Documents/AnalysisOfAct2013-283.pdf
http://www.walkercountysheriff.com/uploads/3/0/9/5/3095346/analysisofact2013-283.pdf
[Alabama Bill 2013-283] SECTION 6.
(a) In addition to any other place limited or prohibited by state or federal law, a person, including a person with a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a) (1) or recognized under Section 13A-11-85, Code of Alabama 1975, may not knowingly possess or carry a firearm in any of the following
places without the express permission of a person or entity with authority over the premises:
(1) Inside the building of a police, sheriff, or highway patrol station.
(2) Inside or on the premises of a prison, jail, halfway house, community corrections facility, or other detention facility for those who have been charged with or convicted of a criminal or juvenile offense.
(3) Inside or on the premises of a facility which provides
inpatient or
custodial care of those with
psychiatric, mental, or emotional disorders. [
some, but not all hospitals]
(4) Inside a courthouse, courthouse annex, a building in which a District Attorney's office is located, or a building in which a county commission or city council is currently having a regularly scheduled or specially called meeting.
(5) Inside any facility hosting an athletic event not related to or involving firearms which is
sponsored by a private or public elementary or secondary school or any private or public institution of
postsecondary education,
unless the person has a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or
recognized under Section 13A-11-85.
(6) Inside any facility hosting a professional athletic event not related to or involving firearms,
unless the person has a permit issued under Section 13A-11-75(a)(1) or recognized under Section 13A-
11-85.
"§13A-11-52. (AS REVISED BY 2013-283)
"Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on
private property not his own or under his control
unless the person possesses a valid concealed weapon permit or the person has the consent of the owner or legal possessor of the premises; but this section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties.
And reference:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...legal-no-weapons-signs-in-alabama-rest-stops/
