No Guns Allowed Signs

[DeepSouth]

The subject came up in a round about way in another thread. And I was just wondering what other people do.

Say your walking into a store and you have your carry weapon (and your permit) with you and you see the
"No Guns Allowed" sign, what do YOU do?

I have never given them much thought at all, I just walk on past and proceed as normal never giving it a second thought. If could open carry in AL I might not enter if I was carrying openly, but we don't have that "problem"
BTW: I have no idea of the legality of the matter.

 

[RoostRider]

I do what is legally allowed..... here in MN that means, if it is a Courthouse, USPS Office, or church (*?* WTH?), I disarm... if not, I wait to be told in person that I cannot carry in the place (that has never happened).... in which case I would decide if it was worth going and disarming, or just going.....

I don't battle the moral problem.... because it isn't a moral problem to me....

 

[deadin]

Read the current 177 replies on the "Gun Show" thread. Same argument for, same arguments against at a gun show as well as at a store.:banghead:

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

The only place I've seen a "No concealed weapons" sign here is at one credit union. It has no force of law.

One look at the pimply faced security guard made up my mind for me. I carry there when I have to go there. No offense to the twenty-something, eight-dollar-an-hour security guard, but I would just as soon rely on my own defenses.

 

[The Annoyed Man]

In Texas, a business must post a PC 30.06 compliant sign to keep out CHL holders who are armed. The law is VERY specific about wording, font type and font size, color contrast, and sign location. Unless a sign complies 100% with the 30.06 requirements, anyone who is armed and carrying under the authority of their CHL can ignore the sign and walk right past it.

OTH, walking past a compliant sign can get your CHL suspended or revoked if you're caught. I just don't frequent businesses that post the signs. I carry business card sized cards in my wallet which I hand to the nearest employee as soon as I see the sign. On the front, the card has a "ghostbusters/gun" emblem on the left, an "equals" sign in the middle, and a "ghostbusters/dollar sign" emblem on the right. Beneath that, it says, "We have noticed your sign, and are going to respect your wishes by shopping elsewhere."

On the back, the card says:

AS A TEXAS CHL LICENSE HOLDER, I:

• HAVE NO FELONY CONVICTIONS - LIFETIME
• O CLASS A OR B MISDEMEANORS WITHIN THE LAST FIE YEARS
• PASSED BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL FINGERPRINT AND BACKGROUND CHECKS
• NO DELINQUENT CONDUCT WITHIN THE PAST 10 YEARS
• NOT DELINQUENT IN CHILD SUPPORT, STUDENT LOANS, OR STATE/LOCAL TAXES

•••HOW MUCH DO YOU KNOW ABOUT YOUR OTHER CUSTOMERS !?! •••​

After that, I leave and never go back.

 

[Cards81fan]

In OK, the posting of no weapons signs is a legal means to prohibit weapons on the property:

Except as provided in subsection B of this section, nothing contained in any provision of the Oklahoma Self-Defense Act, Section 1290.1 et seq. of this title, shall be construed to limit, restrict or prohibit in any manner the existing rights of any person, property owner, tenant, employer, or business entity to control the possession of weapons on any property owned or controlled by the person or business entity.

FWIW, subsection B states the property owner cannot prohibit the transport and storage of a weapon in a locked vehicle (The Parking Lot law).

Of course, as my instructor (also an LEO) told me: if you're carrying properly, what does it matter He also went on to advise that the consequence is that the property owner may is you to leave. If you don't, then trespassing.

 

[dullh]

I personally don't care what the sign says. Doesn't offend me in the least if a gun shop (or any store for that matter) puts up a "no guns allowed" sign. While it is true a permit holder jumped through many-a-hoop to get the permit, there's no test or background check for common sense. The one store I go into the most put up a sign because one imbecile, proud of his CCW "accomplishment" chose to wave his fully loaded Glock at two employees and about 5 customers. I wasn't in there at the time, but since that day they said NO MORE.

There are reasons for signs such as these at gun shops. All the background checks in the world won't prevent a negligent discharge. Other places, well, if they want to let every scuzbag know they're an easy target, well, whatever...

 

[DeepSouth]

Read the current 177 replies on the "Gun Show" thread. Same argument for, same arguments against at a gun show as well as at a store.

I hadn't looked at the "Gun Show" thread because there is never one within an hour of me, so I never get to go. Sorry If i'm asking a reciprocal question, I didn't know.

I can think of a few fast food joints around here and a mall I go to a couple times a year that have the signs, but I don't really look for them either. Some how I'm betting they are fairly rare.

 

[danbrew]

The "business card" profiled two posts up is sooooo cute - I bet all those spelling errors really impress the guys at the local gun shop, huh? geex hez woont be bak!

Yeah, I agree. There should be a spelling test before somebody is able to carry a gun. And vote.

snicker, sorry, couldn't resist.

Your comment about there not being a test for common sense is right on - and that's why I decide (not some silly sign) whether I'll carry when otherwise lawful. It's only a matter of time before the next shooting and I pray I'm nowhere near it when it happens. Somebody is gonna get laid off. The bank will take his house, his wife is gonna leave, whatever. There's lots of things happening in our world/economy/lives/etc. that could push otherwise sane people over the edge. Or perhaps better put, push people that were already at the edge over the edge. I don't want to be anywhere nearby when those things happen.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

all those spelling errors

AS A TEXAS CHL LICENSE HOLDER, I:
HAVE NO FELONY CONVICTIONS - LIFETIME
O CLASS A OR B MISDEMEANORS WITHIN THE LAST FIE YEARS
PASSED BOTH STATE AND FEDERAL FINGERPRINT AND BACKGROUND CHECKS
NO DELINQUENT CONDUCT WITHIN THE PAST 10 YEARS
NOT DELINQUENT IN CHILD SUPPORT, STUDENT LOANS, OR STATE/LOCAL TAXES
•••HOW MUCH DO YOU KNOW ABOUT YOUR OTHER CUSTOMERS !?! •••

I see one typo.

Please point out any spelling errors.

 

[average_shooter]

I do what is legally allowed..... here in MN that means, if it is a Courthouse, USPS Office, or church (*?* WTH?), I disarm...

(emphasis added)

Are you sure about that whole church thing?

From here:
http://www.leg.state.mn.us/LRL/Issues/firearmcarry.asp

On September 9, 2005, Hennepin County District Court Judge, LaJune Thomas Lange, issued a temporary injunction that allowed churches to post signs of their own wording and to completely ban firearms from all church property, including parking lots. This temporary injunction was the initial result of a lawsuit filed by two churches who argued that the firearm carry law interferes with their religious practices. On November 14, 2006, Hennepin County District Court Judge William Howard extended this temporary injunction by making it permanent. On February 5, 2008, the Minnesota State Court of Appeals ruled that churches have the right to ban guns from their property and can decide how to notify people of weapons prohibitions. See: Edina Community Lutheran Church, Respondent, Unity Church of St. Paul, Respondent, vs. State of Minnesota, Appellant. (A07-131)(2/5/2008).

(again, emphasis added)

I can find no use of the word "church" in the actual language of the law. ( https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/statutes/?id=624.714 )

What I understand all this to mean is that churches do not have to abide by the part of the law requiring how visitors are notified of the churches desire (i.e. sign placement, font, text size, etc); BUT this does not appear to actually make all churches off-limits, only those that post or otherwise notify visitors.

Just wanted to throw that in there.

Regarding courthouses and post offices generally carry is restricted on government property, though the language of the law puts post offices into a sort of gray area regarding "lawful use."

Sorry for the thread-jack.

 

[cloudedice]

The "business card" profiled two posts up is sooooo cute - I bet all those spelling errors really impress the guys at the local gun shop, huh? geex hez woont be bak!

It's really easy to move the mouse over the business card in one's wallet to select the text before copy and pasting it into a forum window. Because it's so easy, the quoted text MUST be a verbatim copy of that text. It's certainly impossible for them to be typing errors.

 

[dullh]

danbrew,

I wasn't talking about the guy waving his Glock in a menacing/unlawful way or being pushed "over the edge" by current economic conditions...he wanted to show it off to the clerk and was waving it around carelessly...if he had kept it concealed and holstered there would have not been a problem.

 

[Husaberg Man]

The "business card" profiled two posts up is sooooo cute - I bet all those spelling errors really impress the people you hand it to, huh? geex heez woont be bak dat gie!

One typo and one or two examples of moderately casual English... Yeah, he should be ashamed. Lighten up, Francis!

I personally don't care what the sign says.

So, you flaunt the law and/or ignore property owners' rights, AND you feel superior to a guy with a typo???

 

[Erik M]

I would never carry at a courthouse or judicial center because thats breaking the law. As far as a resturant or store is concered I could care less what thier polotical standing on the matter is becase they cannot prohibit me from doing anything as long as my CCW license is current. All they can do is ask me to leave thier property if they become aware, lest they violite my civil rights.

 

[danbrew]

danbrew,

I wasn't talking about the guy waving his Glock in a menacing/unlawful way or being pushed "over the edge" by current economic conditions...he wanted to show it off to the clerk and was waving it around carelessly...if he had kept it concealed and holstered there would have not been a problem.

didn't mean to imply that's what you said - more of a leftover from the other thread, to be honest. the discussion in that thread was all about whether one would abdicate their responsibility for self-preservation because of a sign that says "respect mah auuuthreety" (no guns allowed)

 

[wyocarp]

I ignore "No Gun" signs if concealed and if it is legal to carry there.

 

[Rockwell1]

Say your walking into a store and you have your carry weapon (and your permit) with you and you see the
"No Guns Allowed" sign, what do YOU do?

Walk right by it

 

[Quiet]

Depends on what state you are in.
In some states it is not illegal to carry in a store with a "no guns allowed" sign.

 

[Funderb]

Say your walking into a store and you have your carry weapon (and your permit) with you and you see the
"No Guns Allowed" sign, what do YOU do?

I usually ask the clerk if he can then help me remove
THESE GUNS!!!

(flexes biceps.)

 

[wojownik]

Earlier this year, when going to my auto insurance company for their required inspection of my vehicle (parking lot damage), I noticed a "No Firearms May Be Carried on Premises, with or without permit" sign on their entryway. Couldn't miss it, 12x18 inch red sign with two inch bold lettering. So, I called their office and requested they wander outside to meet me, since I couldn't go in. They refused.

I then called the regional office. They confirmed a company wide policy of no firearms on company premises, with or without permit. So then I called the corporate HQ, which confirmed the confirmation. However, at least both the regional and corporate offices sympathized and said there was no reason their local inspector couldn't pry his bottom his chair to come outside.

So, back to the OP, what did/could I do? Obey the law (which in my area says I can't carry on private property if so posted. I leave my firearm secured in my vehicle, which I then drove inside their garage (it's not being carried, so I'm following their restriction to the letter ... duh... :banghead: ). Collect my insurance check (cut on the spot). Leave, and I have taken my business elsewhere - car, home, and life insurance.

 

[Flash!]

the annoyed man..... I need some of those cards.....

 

[Mags]

I really don't know why someone would simply ignore the sign. I mean the no firearms sign states the intent of the property owner that he or she wishes for there to be no firearms on their property. That is their right and we should respect it and take our buisness elsewhere if we do not agree. ITS THAT SIMPLE.

 

[dmazur]

A local credit union posted one of those signs, and I advised management of their erroneous thinking and took my business elsewhere. During the discussion, my gun was securely locked in my truck.

The problem with honoring property rights is you are essentially giving up a civil right (the right to protect yourself) with no assurance that the property owner is enforcing the sign. In other words, the criminal who ignores the sign is still going to hold the place up, and you, the law-abiding, left your gun in your car. Case in point - the restaurant shooting in Texas a few years ago. If I remember correctly, a survivor's testimony was key in improving Texas CCW laws. For places that are open to the public, these signs are just an invitation for trouble. (Gun Free Zone = Target Rich Environment) However, for private property not open to the public, I agree that the owner's wishes should be followed, or just don't visit that property if you don't like the owner's conditions.

I hope that, in the near future, these silly "No Guns Allowed" signs will be history, viewed with the same scorn that a "No Coloreds" sign on a drinking fountain would evoke.

 

[Dirtpile]

Those friggin' signs are annoying as hell here in OH.
The same day CCW passed they went up EVERYWHERE! And I mean everywhere, even the local gun shops had them.
It was almost as if the ANTIs that were handing them out told the businesses that they were legally required to out them up regardless of their stance.
Some of them have come down though in the couple years since.

In OH you can be charged and fined fined for tresspassing, this is pretty standard for most states, if you get made. And AFAIK you won't get your permit suspended for your first offence.

Just remember the golden rule kids, "It's only illegeal if you get caught."