No pistols/No revolvers =?

[guyfromohio]

I was at a hospital in Mississippi this afternoon and saw an odd sign. I wish I had photographed it.... There was a picture of a Glock-ish auto-loader with the words "No Pistols" under it. Below that was a picture of a revolver with "No revolvers" under it. What would happen if I carried a Derringer? Seems like an odd "no guns allowed" series of signs.

 

[dogtown tom]

What would happen if I carried a Derringer?

Under federal law, a derringer IS a pistol.

 

[Deaf Smith]

I was at a hospital in Mississippi this afternoon and saw an odd sign. I wish I had photographed it.... There was a picture of a Glock-ish auto-loader with the words "No Pistols" under it. Below that was a picture of a revolver with "No revolvers" under it. What would happen if I carried a Derringer? Seems like an odd "no guns allowed" series of signs.

I'd just pack a Class II sawed off shotgun. Should be legal if registered....

Deaf

 

[burrhead]

According to Webster (and me) a derringer IS a pistol.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pistol

 

[USAF_Vet]

Easy, carry a flintlock, wheel lock, match lock or cap lock. Technically not considered firearms by federal law.

 

[mavracer]

The police won't mince words they'll consider it a pistol and from there it depends on MS law, here in KS all they can do is ask you to leave and it's trespassing if you don't

 

[CajunBass]

What would happen if I carried a Derringer?

Next week they'd have a sign with circle/slash around a derringer.

Some guardhouse lawyer probably got then with the "It's not a pistol it's a revolver argument." So now they got a "no revolver" sign. Bring in a flintlock and they'll make another sign.

 

[Salmoneye]

Under federal law, a derringer IS a pistol.

So is a 'revolver'...

"The term “Revolver” means a projectile weapon of the pistol type,"

https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms/firearms-industry/guides/gun-control-act-definition-revolver

 

[jmr40]

"The term “Revolver” means a projectile weapon of the pistol type,"

Pistol type and pistol are close, but not exactly the same.

Pistols have 1 chamber, revolvers have several. The old Colt ad says "revolving pistol", not pistol. Colt clearly meant for it to be different. Most people shortened "revolving pistol" to just revolver. Some just use pistol for any handgun. I prefer to use the terms revolver and pistol, but no longer try to argue the point.

Easy, carry a flintlock, wheel lock, match lock or cap lock. Technically not considered firearms by federal law.

While not technically a firearm, they are pistols. The sign said "No Pistols"

 

[guyfromohio]

Seems like the obvious solution is "No firearms". This hospital does have a psych unit so I'm not admonishing their decision, just the odd signage.

 

[Salmoneye]

Pistol type and pistol are close, but not exactly the same.

Pistols have 1 chamber, revolvers have several.

These ATF definitions only came along with GCA68...

Prior to that (and all dictionaries I can find to this day) define "Pistol" as a small firearm designed to be fired by one hand"...

I prefer to use the terms revolver and pistol, but no longer try to argue the point.

Yet here you are arguing the point

Take it up with Sam Colt who patented the 'revolving gun'...

Note that in the text; "Division 1 of the drawings represents a pistol."...Pistol is used throughout the text to describe the patent design...

http://www.google.com/patents/USX9430

(Yes...I realize that this is another of those .45 Colt/Long Colt arguments that will last forever)

 

[jrdolall]

The police won't mince words they'll consider it a pistol and from there it depends on MS law, here in KS all they can do is ask you to leave and it's trespassing if you don't

In most places this is true for private businesses but I don't know about a place like a hospital or school.

 

[ApacheCoTodd]

Skip 'em all and through the lingui-nazis a curve.

Carry a non-shoulder fired, muzzle loading, flint-lock blunderbuss.... or two!

Arrrrrhhhhh I be here fer me new leg!

Todd.

 

[dogtown tom]

Salmoneye

Quote:
Under federal law, a derringer IS a pistol.

So is a 'revolver'...

Nope.
Federal law/ATF regulations clearly define what is a pistol and what is a revolver. If you go to your link and click on "Previous Page" it will show you a "Pistol" and the ATF definition of pistol.

 

[Holescreek]

Did you notice if it was also marked in Braille?

 

[bangswitch]

The police won't mince words....

The hospital I work at made their sign pretty free of interpretation. It has an outline picture of a generic pistol and a Trench knife, with the red circle/slash over them, and the statement "No firearms, knives or weapons of any type allowed". The sign is about 1 foot by 1-1/2 foot in size, posted next to every entrance into the building, including the loading dock in back.

 

[PowerG]

The Mississippi code references "pistol or revolver" in the CCW section and elsewhere, the permit covers both but it doesn't define either. The term takes the place of "handgun". Under the state law there is no difference in this situation; Federal law doesn't apply here. A sign that said "No Firearms" would carry the same weight, bunch of lawyer-speak is all that is.

Some of the county-owned hospitals in the state do allow concealed carry by permit holders.

 

[AK103K]

Unless the sign refers to an actual "law", who cares?

 

[flphotog]

Easy, carry a flintlock, wheel lock, match lock or cap lock. Technically not considered firearms by federal law.

Unless of course you are in NJ.

 

[Jim Watson]

About anything carried "for the purpose of going armed" will get judicial attention.
The cops don't care if it is an antique.

 

[Thermactor]

Yep, go ahead and argue semantics with them after you get caught with an SBR in your pocket. "Really officer, it's not a pistol or a revolver! Whatchu restin me fo? I dindu nuffins"
You won't beat the ride. Good luck beating the rap too.

 

[Walkalong]

My place of work has the signs with an outline of a semi auto and the crossed circle.

I laughing say I could then bring a revolver in, but rest assured, they mean handguns of any sort and would not listen to any, "but the sign says autos" excuse.

 

[DMF]

Under federal law, a derringer IS a pistol.

OK then, please post the citation from the US Code that makes your statement true.

I'll help you out with your quest for the citation: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text

A pistol, a revolver, and a derringer, are all "handguns" as defined in 18USC921. However, the US Code does not define handguns further by giving separate definitions of pistol, revolver, or derringer. Therefore federal law does not define a derringer as a pistol, but merely defines it as a handgun.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

While etymology is not the same as meaning (something I often have to remind myself of since I'm a teeny bit NT and etymology is a guilty pleasure of mine), the word pistol seems to have come to English through a dual etymology. Both from the German pistole, itself from the Czech pis'tala meaning tube or pipe and from the French pistolet which meant a small gun or dagger from the Italian town Pistoia known for its weapon smiths.

Some pedants think English users should be bound by the German distinction (applies to firearms with the chamber integral with the barrel). They would be upset to learn that the French word came to English 16 years before the German (1550 vs. 1566). Again etymology is not meaning but the history does not support one camp telling members of the other camp they are wrong.

Personally I am tired of the pedants:

Mike

 

[Arizona_Mike]

Here in AZ a lot of businesses that don't serve alcohol put up these official liquor department 4-229 liquor code signs at one point of entry. We jokingly refer to them as "no race guns allowed". Sometimes they slap up a Xerox copy or even a fancy metal or engraved plastic version or even a window decal.



My employer recently figured it out after several years and went to a more general "No weapons allowed" sign (which has the same force of law as "employees only" or "no shoes, no shirt, no service"--3rd degree misdemeanor trespass (2nd degree in a fences commercial yard). It does not even qualify as misconduct with a weapon).

Most of them have no idea that 4-229 signs are only valid if they are in color, on laminated heavy card stock, and the font and pictogram need to be a certain minimum size. They probably have no idea that 4-229 allows non-residents to carry and and allows armed AZ residents to briefly enter to see if the sign is also posted next to the (often non-existent) liquor license (as required). Nearly 99% of the signage you encounter in AZ is invalid.

Mike