Non-USA members

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A question for our International members;

How are your pro-firearms beliefs perceived by your countrymen? I would be interested in hearing of your experiences with the anti-gun mindset in your countries. It's not necessarily the bureaucratic difficulties involved in buying guns that I'd like to know about, but how your fellow citizens react to your pro-gun stance.

I've been around guns all of my life, so i guess I take some of my firearms liberties for granted. My ancestors settled in the South in the late 1700's and each generation has produced hunters and warriors. When I talk to someone who doesn't "get" the intrinsic value of choosing to defend yourself with your own wits, wisdom and weapons (the 3 W's!) I feel a mental disconnect. The social element here who would like to make your choices for you is strong, and the issue of firearms freedom is polarizing.

More and more frequently when I encounter an "anti" I find I'm also talking to a pro-choice or otherwise liberal person. It is turning into a "us and them" scenario...either you buy one party's whole package or you lose your voice.

I think what I'm trying to say is that I see the ideological balkanization of America and I wonder if you see the same thing in your country.

Sorry for the rambling question...maybe the fumes from my garden fertilizer got to me...:)

Thanks
 
Barman,two of my most interesting and favorite shotguns are French, a little 28Ga Darne and an old 16 ga Charlin. Both are generally considered oddities here but fine guns. Interestingly I saw my first Darne in a gunshop in Izmir, Turkey about 35 years ago. The owner did not speak enough English, and I enough Turkish to converse much about it but he did say it was a Darne.

Information on these guns is hard to come by on this side of the Atlantic.

Glad to see you on the forum.
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Thanks my friend,

Have you checked the Darne website?
http://www.fusildarne.com/

You can apparently send them emails for any question that may be of interest.

Good night!
 
Max, I got into your site, very interesting.
I was stationed in Berlin in 1961 when you guys put the wall up. I was pretty convinced that it was to keep me away from your girls. :rolleyes:

I took Russian for 3 years in College after I was in Berlin then Khmer for 6 months before going to SE/Asia. Were you in any of those locations?

Welcome Tovarich.
 
How are your pro-firearms beliefs perceived by your countrymen? I would be interested in hearing of your experiences with the anti-gun mindset in your countries. It's not necessarily the bureaucratic difficulties involved in buying guns that I'd like to know about, but how your fellow citizens react to your pro-gun stance.
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Here's the thing about South Africa - pretty much everyone is pro-gun, except the millionaires and politicians. Walk up to anyone on the street, ask him if he thinks he should have a gun, you'll get a 'yes'. Ask him if he minds his neighbours, coworkers, whatever having guns, and chances are you'll get a 'not at all' there. Then go ask the people in office, and watch the hipocrisy. Sadly, these are the people who supposedly represent us.

Africa is not for sissies. I carry every day!
 
How are your pro-firearms beliefs perceived by your countrymen? I would be interested in hearing of your experiences with the anti-gun mindset in your countries. It's not necessarily the bureaucratic difficulties involved in buying guns that I'd like to know about, but how your fellow citizens react to your pro-gun stance.
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Pro-firearms beliefs are considered extremely conservative in France. Gun totting folks are often older, from a rural background, and don't mix well with people from high-density urban areas.

Most people who own and shoot firearms regularly in this country are hunters, and they represent (more or less) 2 milion registered people out of a total population of 60 milions. Some studies state that there would be 6 milion of them occasionnal hunters. They're quite efficient at protecting their rights because politicians know that they can't afford to lose 6 milion voters during the elections.

I'm rather young (27 years old) and I belong to a minority of sports shooters who unfortunately are way less vocal and have way less power than the hunters' lobby.

When I confess my passion for firearms to anti-gun citizens, they're surprised at first. I think that in their mind someone who owns guns has to be somewhat of a redneck of some kind. However I'm working in a very wealthy environement and because of my job I'm always well-groomed and well dressed, so they don't expect me to be a firearms enthusiast.

I try to point out that less than 80 years ago, firearms training was compulsory for kids in primary schools, up to high school, and that most people had a firearm at home. It's part of our history.
 
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Finnish gunner here. I hate the local gun laws and as soon as my wife graduates from uni we'll start planning moving to the States or some other English speaking country where self defense isn't illegal.

How are your pro-firearms beliefs perceived by your countrymen? I would be interested in hearing of your experiences with the anti-gun mindset in your countries. It's not necessarily the bureaucratic difficulties involved in buying guns that I'd like to know about, but how your fellow citizens react to your pro-gun stance.
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Those who live in the country have reason and understand and many of them have guns themselves.

City folk...whoo boy...city folk...they're just plain dumb. Basically the more educated they are, the dumber they are. It seems most of my school friends at the uni just lose their common sense somewhere along the line. Can't reason with 'em no matter what you say. Eventually it gets to the point where I lay down the facts and they run away holding their hands over their ears and yelling so as not to hear my voice. :D
 
The attitudes to guns in New Zealand have changed a lot over the last 50-60 years. I remember my father telling me that when he was at school during WWII the boys all had compulsory rifle training (SMLEs) at school and were taught how to field strip and maintain Bren guns ... along with instructions on what to do in a bombing raid, etc. The school field was also plowed and sown in lupins for the war effort (not sure why ... maybe to help improve soil fertility for vegetable crops?).

When my dad was a little older he could jump on a public bus with his backpack and sporterised 1903 Springfield on a Friday afternoon after work and head out to a forest area to go hunting for the weekend without anyone freaking out and calling the cops.

When I got my firearms licence it was a "lifetime licence" .... you sat an exam, paid a fee and your firearms licence was yours until you died, surrendered it, or the police had you holed up on a rooftop (joking .... the licence could be revoked, but only for mental instability, deonstrated propensity for violence, conviction for drugs, violence, or gun crime). A couple of years after I got my licence the rules changed and it became more expensive, there were more extensive background checks and it became a 10 year licence.

Then "military styled semi-automatic weapons" became a restricted category of firearm which require a specific reason for owning, increased security provisions and permission to buy/transfer each and every firearm in the category.

Most people I tend to associate with are ambivalent about firearms at best and many are genuinely fearful of them (from a position of ignorance mostly) and therefore anti. The people I know range from liberal to conservative (mostly toward the conservative end fo the spectrum) but there's been a general urbanisation of folks with a consequent isolation from the realities of life (and death) and practical aspects oflife including self sufficiency ... including firearms. Even many of my colleagues who are educated ecologists are shocked that we have our stock killed and butchered for meat ... though they're quite prepared to buy pre-packaged meat from the supermarket. :scrutiny:

Its all going to hell in a handbasket here I'm afraid.
 
An Indian living in France.

Compared to India France is heaven as far as firearms go. Have been on the board a couple of years now.

Since I do live out in the country, people are more relaxed with firearms. What has surprised me though is the popularity of Black powder in France.
And what has perplexed me somewhat is the different classifications of firearms.

But hey... I am not complaining. :neener::neener:

Also the number of display weapons in rural areas in particular is fairly mind boggling...
 
How are your pro-firearms beliefs perceived by your countrymen?
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In Switzerland, people are used to guns because every man (who serve) is issued one for more than a century. (and we have a long army/mercenary/war tradition)

And everyone, at least, saw the grandfather K31 or k11 in the basement.

But nowadays, the army is badly seen by all the lefties, and the "socialists" (it's not a "bad" word here..) who think it's a waste of time, and a waste of money.. and guns are extremmely associated with the army in Switzerland.. So guns, are seen as the evil side of the army (lefties still think that the army can be useful in case of floodings for example, or other natural plagues..).. and obviously, average people see guns as useless death makers, and often confer them a will.. (socialists talk about "gun violence".. as if the gun were violent..) ... and they try to get them banned from society.

When you are with other people, usually you dont say them that you own 30+ guns, and that you are a shooter and a collector, at least if you dont know them well..

here, with the majority of people, having and collecting guns, will make them think that you may be "dangerous", "violent", kinda "frustraded", or having a complex !

Of course, if i am with intelligent people, I can always explain them how they are obviously wrong, and most of the time I manage to do it. But with the more stubborn of them, I just give it up.. As we say, "you don't get a horse which is not thirsty to drink"..

fortunately, shooting is an old Swiss tradition, and we have many shooting society that keep the guns and that sport in an official way !


But I whish, one day, to live in the USA... not only for guns, but because I like big sky coutries !
 
ps: black powder guns are popular in france, because they are in the 8th category of guns.. and therefore free to buy as soon as you are 18...

Make 22lr pistols free to buy, and they will become more popular..
 
Shung...

I know that BP is Cat 8, and less troublesome to buy than a paintball gun. I have a few myself (BP not paintball)... that I do use with Swiss powder which is very good. As is my Swiss Arms SHR 970 in 300 WM. :evil:

A question I have is: How difficult would it be for me to be able to carry my licensed firearms to Switzerland in order to shoot at some of your long range clubs?
 
very easy... if you are invited by someone here.

You can come in Switzerland with 2 guns for an event.

Est-il possible d'introduire sans autorisation et en franchise des armes de chasse ou de sport en Suisse pour aller chasser ou pour participer à une manifestation de tir?
Réponse
Oui, deux armes de chasse ou de sport, ou une arme de chasse et une arme de sport.
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that's from an official FAQ

I myself did the opposit a couple of months ago.

With 3 friends, we went in France with 1 M4 assault rifle (semi) and 1 pistol (glock, XD9, and 1911A1) each for the ar15france.com shooting event.

Very quick procedure at the border post 5min for Swiss, and 30min for French.. Easy and smooth-

I also shoot BP :) Swiss 2 in revolvers and S3 in my Rifles-
 
Restorer said:
How are your pro-firearms beliefs perceived by your countrymen?
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I don't tell people I'm pro-guns. What argument could I possibly use in a country where individuals are tools of the collective and victims are more guilty than criminals?

Cougfan2 said:
I would be interested in hearing the opinion from some of our European friends if they think the Heller decision here in the U.S. will drive more people in Europe to demand a restoration of their rights. I hope so for your sake.
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There were never any rights in Europe to begin with. Europe is a lost cause, a mire of statism, collectivism and soon religion as well.

It would make more sense to move to the US and vote appropriately, since the US still has a chance even if that chance is getting slimmer every day. But America at least has a foundation of freedom. One of many ways that freedom is still manifest today is your First Amendment. That, together with the 2A makes you Americans proper citizens whereas the rest of us are subjects.

Did you know that in most other 1st world countries, especially Sweden, you can actually go to jail for criticizing certain religions and minorities? I'm not referring to ordering a mob to lynch a particular individual, but simply criticism and condemnation in general. That is a big part of why I want to move to the US: I want freedom of expression. I don't have that here.
 
At least you get guns and lower taxes. I can't engage in my hobby for guns and shooting due to local laws that forbid me to simply get my own .22 and shoot alone under the open sky, which my ears (I have hyperacusis) could tolerate.
 
It doesn't have much to do with hoplophobia as such. Sweden has been a collectivist, unfree state since its founding. The government does not want an armed populace, and neither the state nor the populace acknowledges the right to life, liberty, property and the self defense of such.
 
I have enjoyed several spirited debates with overseas folks via PM. I think it's great stuff and served to help me avoid (as much as possible) getting stuck in just one mindset.

Sometimes we've agreed, sometimes we've switched opinions, sometimes we simply have had to agree to disagree but it's all been great discussion of the topics and issues surrounding firearms.
 
gtmerkley's DAD

Those who win the war or live in a country get to write the history books and the news. I like to hear what other people think of us. Country's or governments that don't get along should not dictate whether I can have a friend from another country who I talk with about guns. If we would talk to each other more on a forum like this maybe our governments would get the idea and start talking to each other.There will always be things we disagree about like an AK vs the AR and will fight about it. But it is good that we have a place to come to where we the people can talk and make friends. That makes me wonder how meany more lives are saved by guns that we have never thought of ? I would find it hard to get mad at a friend who talks with me about something we both love. Heck I shoot both the AK and the AR as well as guns from the Swiss the Germans,Japan and almost every other country. I like and dislike things about all of them but I have no wish to lose any of them and hope to get more. Greedy American ? when it comes to guns or friends you bet.
 
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