North Korea Declaring War against USA

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If they "declared war" and attacked any USA interests, the cruise missiles, B-2s and F-117s start to fly. We sould pretty much disable their entire infrastucture, as well and any real military threats in about 48 hours.
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None of those have ever been tested in a nuclear war. Is there enough shielding on the electronic components to keep them working? Maybe. But a high altitude North Korean airburst over...oh...let's say...Okinawa....(or half way between South Korea and Japan somewhere over the ocean) might be enough to knock airpower, radar, and missile guidance systems offline. I've no doubt we've TRIED to prepare for a nuclear war....BUT.....we don't know what might happen to our "wonder weapons" when EMP comes. Maybe nothing. Or maybe we end up with several trillion dollars worth of scrap metal.
 
Quote: "The best thing for all concerned would be for the Chinese to say to some North Korean general, "Want to be President of North Korea? Act now on this limited time offer!"
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It would'nt be the first regime change to take place from the "inside" :D
 
Is there enough shielding on the electronic components to keep them working? Maybe. But a high altitude North Korean airburst over...oh...let's say...Okinawa....(or half way between South Korea and Japan somewhere over the ocean) might be enough to knock airpower, radar, and missile guidance systems offline. I've no doubt we've TRIED to prepare for a nuclear war....BUT.....we don't know what might happen to our "wonder weapons" when EMP comes. Maybe nothing. Or maybe we end up with several trillion dollars worth of scrap metal.
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Regardless, I doubt the B2s and B52 launched cruise missiles that would be sitting safely in the MidWest would be affected. The problem with screwing with a superpower is the same as a boxer facing a guy with 6 inch longer arms; you've got to deal with his reach. The Norks could disable every single weapon in the theater, and if we were sufficiantly agitated we could have our own nuke on target in 15-20 minutes. Conventional weapons from outside the theater within a day. Just because we choose to fight most wars with one arm tied behind our backs doesn't mean we have to.
 
And keep in mind that when it comes to the actual fighting part, we're the best that there has ever been in history.

The hard part comes after when we choose to stick around, build nations, and then have the press freak out everytime an IED goes off.

It isn't the military power that is in question, it is our will power. We could smite North Korea from the face of the Earth in under two weeks if we really wanted to.
 
the NK war 'machine' would burn itself out VERY quickly. they can barely feed the population, which is largely impoverished, and certainly could not sustain combat for any length of time, given the harsh economic realities of the NK situation. this is not to say that they couldn't create one hell of an initial bang with all the arty and troops, but it sure wouldn't last very long. i think south korea could handle them alone. it would be ugly at first, but NK could not long survive what would turn out to be a war of attrition.
 
According to official Chinese army statements published by the Chinese news agency Jiefang Ribao, the Internet version of the daily newspaper of the Shanghai Municipal Communist Committee, the new energy weapons are specifically designed to attack American aircraft carriers.

"As an aircraft carrier fleet is apt to come under saturation attacks by satellite-guided missiles, its entire combat effectiveness can be paralyzed by paralyzing its electronic equipment, which is its central nervous system," states the Feb. 12 article by Chinese military analyst Ye Jian entitled, "Armchair Strategy: Using a Bomb to Deal With Aircraft Carrier."
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Hey there is a relaible source the Official chinese news agency;)
They have never lied, or spread any propaganda, everything they say is the gospel truth. The government there contols the media to make sure they tell us the truth about all their top secret plans.:barf:

Hey Borchon I hear the Brooklyn bridge is for sale again, just send me a money order and its yours. Its not like we have been workeing to harden all of our weapons against EMP for like the last 50 years. The chinese use stone gears in their computers and radar systems I'm sure.

And heck we only have 27,000 troops in South Korea right??

The 800,000 man South Korean army was trained by France over the last 50 years Huh??
 
Master Blaster, please, haven't you seen the Chinese press release about their new bio-engineered super pumas? We're doomed! Dooooooommmmeeeddddd!!!!!!!!!

Look guys, I know this is serious business, but EMPs are not magic wands that cancel out technology and render us powerless.
 
For the NK to take out the SK military, it would have to use nukes or chemical weapons. That would result in a very bloody but very short war, and the end of a certain dictator's regime (and country). Our people would inevitably be caught in the middle, and we have precisely one response to our folks get nuked or gassed, which is the elimination of whoever did it.

If the NK decided to stay conventional, the war would take longer and the psycho would survive (for a while) but his force projection ability and the threat he posed would be largely eliminated. The South Korean military is far from a paper tiger. It's been in a state of war for more than five decades and has prepared itself accordingly.

This is, of course, contingent on American willpower. It's all too easy to see certain elements of our society who are willing to appease at any cost, especially if the only blood spilled in the process will be that of the South Koreans. That's in large measure how laughing boy got his supposed nukes, after all. We gave him the reactors and the materials to make them possible, all in exchange for his promise not to do what he's doing.
 
Here are some qoutes form fox news:


Along the razor-wired no-man's-land separating the divided Koreas, communist troops were more boldly trying to provoke their southern counterparts: spitting across the demarcation line, making throat-slashing hand gestures, flashing their middle finger and trying to talk to the troops, said U.S. Army Maj. Jose DeVarona of Fayetteville, N.C., adding that the overall situation was calm.


The top U.S. general in South Korea said American forces are fully capable of deterring an attack despite the North's still-unconfirmed nuclear test.

"Be assured that the alliance has the forces necessary to deter aggression, and should deterrence fail, decisively defeat any North Korean attack against" South Korea, U.S. Army Gen. B.B. Bell said in a statement to troops. "U.S. forces have been well- trained to confront nuclear, biological and chemical threats."


The top Generals comments are pretty telling in and of themselves.
 
I disagree with the idea that they COULDN'T project enough force to attack.
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OK, show me the amphib capability that China will need to get to Taiwan. Where does it exist today? Next show me the blue water navy that will get it there in one piece sufficient to overcome the Taiwanese Navy. Finally show me the air cover available in sufficient numbers (and don't forget little things like range and endurance) to provide the big umbrella that all of this will need to operate under. China does not currently possess the military capability needed to be assured of success in an attack on Taiwan. So it would be a bit illogical to assume this was some grand cover plan to give them the slim chance they might have now if EVERYTHING that could go their way did go their way.

In fact, the information from this website indicates to me that they are planning SOMETHING in the future, just based on the type of equipment they are building and buying.
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China imports all of its oil through the same straits that the rest of Asia does. I think a more probable explanation is that they are building the force they need to protect that line of communication. I'm sure it doesn't bother them that it can be used to threaten Taiwan though.

If the US is occupied elsewhere and it was just Taiwan versus China....? Well....it would be tough for China and it would suffer a lot of losses, but if it maintains a good air cover and can get paratroop and sea borne forces to Taiwan in a timely fashion...who knows?
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China loses. This has been gamed frequent and often lately. You can google a nice unclassified report from RAND on just that issue that describes in great detail why China loses (in fact, I'm sure China has read it).

I also think you greatly overestimate the effects of EMP, particularly against the U.S. Let's say you get the U.S. concentrating for attack and knock out the entire 7th Fleet in an incredibly lucky blow (especially considering how long we have tested and prepared for EMP) - well that is why we have a 3rd Fleet that just by itself is more powerful than any other Navy in the Pacific.
 
I really don't think Economic Sanctions are going to work against Kim. This man has been starving his people in order to divert funds to the military. Any sane leader would realize that an attack on SK, Japan, or anywhere else would damn him and his people. The problem, however, is that Kim is not sane. He might just get mad that no one is respecting him and decide, "Well I'm all dressed up, I think I'll go party in Seol tonight."

I fear that a military option might be the only permenant solution to the NK problem. Now if only we could get China to do the dirty work.....

And as for EMPs. N. Korea has had so much trouble building nukes and ballistic missles, do you really think that they can swing an EMP?:rolleyes: Also, Haven't most military systems since the Cold War included at least some hardening against EMP?
 
Also, Haven't most military systems since the Cold War included at least some hardening against EMP?
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That was my alluded to point above. It's not like our boffins don't know, and don't under estimate our boffins.
 
I wouldn't play down China's capability in this. As I remember they have the world's largest modern army (2 million standing) and the world's largest artillery force. Korea will be take over in days. Even if the US were to intervene, China can pretty much plaster Taiwan or Japan with missiles and long range artilery (last I read they have artillery that goes over the strait of Taiwan) leaving us with no bases to operate out of. The only thing China is lacking in is a blue water navy and airforce to properly take over an island. So we can only station carriers and subs out near the coast. Even then there's questions as to how many nuclear subs China has underway and how many of those mach 7 anti-ship missiles they can launch. There's not much anyone can do under that situation, without resorting to nukes, and we all know what will happen if anyone tries that. At this stage, it's all up to economics and international relations. No one wants to fire the first shot, because it can cascade into a pretty horrible scenario.
 
China has a VERY large army, true. But it has very little way of projecting them where needed if it's offshore. They have some minor naval capabilities and would be capable of inflicting damage, but we would win in the end.
As things stand now.
China is learning to fight asymetric warfare and better equiping its forces. If they keep on, things may change...in 20-40 years.
 
They have some minor naval capabilities and would be capable of inflicting damage, but we would win in the end.
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How do we win? Last I checked, the Navy can move 40,000 troops through amphibious vehicles at one time. We'd have to seize cruise ships and cargo ships to transport more. Even then, we don't have a large enough force to invade China, even when not preoccupied with the Middle East. Also, where are we going to station the troops? Who's friendly to us near China? Taiwan? Japan? S.Korea? Those islands would probably be in pretty bad shape from missile attacks by the time we get there and we'd still have to jump over water to get to mainland. S.Korea would probably fall quickly to N.Korea/China as well. It's much easier to defend than it is to attack.
 
quatin, the mainland Chinese would have to get across open water with those 40K troops. The question there is how many might actually arrive?

The situation is not one where we would have to occupy ground. What's needed is a cessation of armed hostility by the mainland Chinese. I know of nobody who'd ever want to actually occupy and try to control mainland China. All those who tried either failed or married into the population with their descendants being Chinese and the country kept right on chooglin'. In Chinese terms, Mao was a temporary aberration.

Art
 
In my assesment it is necessary to get China on our side completely. Because if NK decides to make a go for the south again China is the only nation with enough military mass in the region that we can look to. Otherwise we have to nuke the NK, there really is not other alternative, a conventional war with NK is out of the question.
 
Mao was a temporary aberration.
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China has returned to its traditional form of authoritarian kleptocracy, dressed up in cynical lip service to "socialism".

China's leaders are "communist" in the same sense that the Mafia are "Sicilian patriots". But it sure sounds good in toasts at a banquest...
 
China has returned to its traditional form of authoritarian kleptocracy, dressed up in cynical lip service to "socialism".

China's leaders are "communist" in the same sense that the Mafia are "Sicilian patriots". But it sure sounds good in toasts at a banquest...-deanimator

great analogy:)
 
Gotta love those Norks' and their seeming endless supply of blood-curdling rhetoric, and they're now playing right into W's hands, even though they don't seem to realize it. One could easily make the argument that The Prez. has had a woody for Iraq, Iran and NK for years. Now he can say "I told you so back in my 'axis of e-vil' speech" and who could argue the point?

I don't think our side would be so trigger-happy as to be the first to push the N button over this, but if i were Kim Jong Il, ( or what's-his-name that's in charge of Iran for that matter ) i'd be making very sure that the paths to the shelters are well lighted before i turned in for the night. At least for the next two years and change that W has left in office anyhow. Once Hillary gets elected in '08 :barf: then they can both start to breathe a sigh of relief.
 
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