Not allowed to carry at new job...

[mpmarty]

The company I consult for just posted a "no firearms allowed on premises" sign last week, (I thought it was an April fools gag). I prepared a document for the management to sign stating that they understood that they were depriving me of my constitutional right to bear arms, and that they further understood that by doing so I delegate my responsibilities for self defense to them and that they are now fully responsible for any injury or loss I sustain on the company premises including but not limited to the parking lot and office areas without limitation to amounts of damages and not subject to the normal statute of limitations as prescribed in the uniform code of civil procedures. The managment decided that the sign would stay but that there would be a don't ask don't tell rule. I objected and insisted that they give me the waiver in writing but agreed to a NDA if they would do so. I can't tell you what the outcome was but I still carry and still consult there.

 

[obiwan1]

Marty:

When I went through Parris Island (many wars ago) I was taught that YOU are responsible for your own security and that unit integrity depends on each guy contributing. Therefore the sum total is greater than the sum of its parts.

Do you have to go through a metal detector or risk being frisked?

Bottom line............ concealed means CONCEALED! NO ONE KNOWS!

I like the idea about a D cell MagLight in your cubie. They probably couldn't complain about a small swiss army knife in your pocket - IF they found out.

A KT P32 or Beretta Jetfire disappear in a pocket...........

SEMPER FI

 

[msimonds]

Going into effect on Sep 1st, 2007

I found this after searching:

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us

A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
AN ACT
relating to the rights and liabilities of an employer with respect
to the carrying of a concealed handgun.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Section 411.203, Government Code, is amended to
read as follows:

Sec. 411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS.
(a) Except as provided
by Subsection (
b), this [This] subchapter does not prevent or
otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to
prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from
carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of the business.

(b) Except as otherwise provided by this subsection, a
public or private employer may not establish, maintain, or enforce
any policy or rule that has the effect of prohibiting a person
licensed under this subchapter from transporting or storing a
concealed handgun in a locked vehicle in any parking lot, parking
garage, or other designated parking area. A private employer may
prohibit an employee from transporting or storing a concealed
handgun in a vehicle in a parking lot, parking garage, or other
parking area the employer provides for employees if:


(1) the parking lot, garage, or other area is
completely surrounded by a fence or other structure with a gate
access and is not open to the public; and


(2) ingress to and egress from the parking lot,
garage, or other area are constantly monitored by security
personnel.

(c) This section does not authorize a person licensed under
this subchapter to carry a concealed handgun on any premises where
the carrying of a concealed handgun is prohibited by state or
federal law.


SECTION 2. This Act takes effect September 1, 2007.

Unless your employer meets this new critera, they cannot enforce their rules about the parking lot

 

[Essex County]

I still say ethics..............

is a very real issue. I'm very much against carry restrictions. If you can't handle company policy, don't be a hypocrite. Get another job or go unemployed Essex

 

[msimonds]

But if a new law, in Texas, protects my rights and allows me to carry my POW in my car, if i have my CHL, then I am exercising those rights under the law that is going to go into effect.

Or am I wrong here, should I still abide by the rules of my company, even if they are unlawful?

 

[Jorg Nysgerrig]

Essex is talking about something that many posters have glossed over.

It's not about being able to get away with it, it's about keeping your word and doing what is right.

At most jobs, you are presented with guidelines that you are expected to abide by. To verify that you understand these guidelines and agree to follow them, you sign a document with your signature, thereby giving your word.

Even if you don't agree with the policy, you need to keep your word by sucking it up and abiding, working to change it, or finding another place to work with policies more to your liking. While those may not be easy or attractive options, doing the right thing rarely is.

Likewise, if you are found out, it shows that you have no regard for your word or company policies. I can't imagine going far in any company being known for those sorts of traits.

You've agreed not to do it, so don't. Like everything else in life, you need to weigh the benefits vs. the cost, with the added question of the cost of devaluing your word, both to yourself and others. If carrying 24/7 means everything to you, find another job. If having a good job that doesn't allow you to carry means more, keep your word and don't carry.

 

[Big Calhoun]

Even with the law to be enacted in Texas in Sept, I'm still up the creek, at least at my regular work location that has underground parking and requires a magnet card to get in. So I STILL have to be a good little boy, leave my weapon home, and then drive back home to retrieve said weapon before going to the range or just going out and about. Ridiculous.

 

[msimonds]

I agree with that but what if a company policy that was correct, something that they wrote up under a law (which has now changed), is now obsolete.

Shouldn't the company be required to change their rules based upon the new law? I would think so, to protect them legally.

If they say that you cannot bring a gun/weapon onto their premises and that violates a state law > who is really in the wrong here.....

After September 1st, 2007, I will keep my pow in my car, It is my right under the new law, no matter what I signed

 

[msimonds]

Even with the law to be enacted in Texas in Sept, I'm still up the creek, at least at my regular work location that has underground parking and requires a magnet card to get in. So I STILL have to be a good little boy, leave my weapon home, and then drive back home to retrieve said weapon before going to the range or just going out and about. Ridiculous.

Yeah I see that you will have to still leave your weapon at home!!

 

[possum]

ok all, I just took a new job that does not allow "the carrying of weapons of any kind". What should I do? should I carry and not say anything?

turn in your two weeks notice and join the army, we'll let you carry, but only in the field with no ammo. on deployment where it sucks, and .... that's about it.

 

[Dgreno]

New Rule...

First off, I really want to keep this job so I am trying to adapt. I was told today that my cell phone should be left in my car as well (not happening). So, If I get attacked walking to the back of the dark parking lot, not only am I not allowed to have my gun to defend myself, but I can’t call for help either. This could get interesting. I’ll let all of you know what I decide to do after I weigh the benefits/cost of adhering to this policy. OC spray is always a fun option... What do ya'll think?

BTW, I see no unjustifiable violation of ethics in this situation. I would see it the other way in that I am ethically bound to defend myself and practice self preservance.

Dave

PS, Please don’t ask what company it is, I don’t want to down them while I work there.

 

[Aguila Blanca]

My job is retail that will be working mostly closing shifts. At the end of the shift I have to walk through a dark parking lot to the BACK, where I am required to park. I think my ccw's will stay in my vehicle and my "personal utility tool" (knife) will stay in my pocket.

Your situation, then, is strikingly akin to the one I was faced with. It still comes down to: How badly do you want or need that job, and what price do you put on your personal integrity?

In my case, they sandbagged me (or I sandbagged myself). I had already started work before they showed me the personnel policy and asked me to sign it. Had I been shown the policy beforehand, I would not have accepted the job. Had they told me after the fact that this was the policy but not required me to sign a document saying I agreed to follow it ... I would have cheerfully ignored it. However, I was not going to go unarmed, and I was not going to sign my name to a document I could not honor.

Your new information ups the ante considerably. Your gun is uselss in your car, because if you are going to be jumped it'll be either between the store and the vehicle, or just as you open the door but before you get in and have ready access to the weapon.

If they require you to sign the policy (as most companies do), then my personal ethics would say walk away. If for some reason they don't require you to sign it ... ignore it, and keep your mouth closed.

 

[vtoddball]

Well...

better to ask forgiveness than beg permission.

Keep it in your car. Well, I would have, but now you are probably
high on their list of "high risk" employees.

 

[MErl]

on a diff note...

was just asked recently to remove the collection of dummy cartridges I had in my cube. apparently the company policy extends past weapons to ammunition as well. nevermind that there were no primers or powder in them...

actually according to the letter of the policy they were ok but people were getting concerned.

so they went home.
I rather like my job right now even though my boss is an ass. He could easily make it not so likable. (and yes this was a step in that direction)

 

[Fulcrum of Evil]

I was faced with that conundrum a couple of years ago. I had accepted a new job, working the closing shift at a retail establishment on the fringe of a rather, shall we say, "seedy" part of town.

In you situation, I'd be carrying; as for me, I work in an office, and my car is in a locked garage in an ok part of the city. There isn't much risk of a violent confrontation at my office, so carrying isn't that big a deal for me.

 

[shooting time]

I worked for a large national company for 20 yrs they had a no firearms policy.I carried every day because I had to go to locations out of town & bad sections of town etc, I only got caught one time by the security manager.Told him i had license to carry and it was for my own protection and had been carrying it for the previous 15 yrs and never had a incident.He said ok I never saw it.The way he found out was I was on a ladder and he came by and grabbed my ankle horseing around and felt it.Never had a problem with him after that. I work for a company now where the owner told me to carry and is pro gun.

 

[Bubbles]

I work on a Federal Installation

Same here, and the penalties for shooting so much as a camera at work can end my employment.

+1, except it's .mil instead of .gov and I have to go through the equivalent of a TSA screening just to get to my desk.

I'll admit that when I worked on private property I carried discretely - and knew of others who did - despite company policy. The worst that would have happened is I would have lost my job. In my current position I'd lose my job and my RKBA, and I'd be receiving three hots and a cot at taxpayer expense for a long time. Not worth it.

Besides, the guards at the gate are a lot better armed than I can afford to be unless the '86 ban goes away...

 

[stevemis]

Also, remember, if you get called on it and you are going to be fired, just quit. Legally if you resign and are not fired your previous employer cannot say anything negative about you. The worst that they can do is say that they cannot comment. Besides, companies are so afraid of being sued these days that they will put up with an amazing amount of crap before they fire you.

Not entirely true. The "new" trick is to ask whether or not an employee is eligible for re-hire at their previous job. A "yes" would seem to indicate a good employee that they would welcome back with open arms if an appropriate opening existed. A "no" would tell me there was something up, because the company wouldn't re-hire the individual under any circumstances.

Also, please be advised that it is an offense in at least one state (mine) to carry a weapon in violation of a "no weapons/firearms" sign. If you get caught and prosecuted, reference checks would be the least of your worries: employers would find a firearms-related conviction in their background check.

I personally think you need to follow the rules. Ultimately, it's your decision. If you follow the rules, certainly air your displeasure with the policy and hope that it either changes or you find a job at a more progressive company. If you decide to ignore the policy, don't make any waves or ever discuss the policy with anyone.

Steve