Now this is just sad

[nelsonal]

Fencing will be like real sword fighting when every inch of the body is a legitimate target and kicking your opponent in the nuts, should the opportunity present, is legal.

The entire body is a valid target in epee, body to body contact isn't a foul, no right of way rules. Epee is pretty much dueling to first blood (if you were actually dueling your goal would of course be to get first blood from a vital organ.

 

[Beaux Nehr]

Georgie Patton be rolling over in his grave.

I think you mean Winston Churchhill

 

[Justin]

I'm completely unsurprised by this. The International Olympic Committee has had a thoroughly antagonistic view of the shooting sports for quite some time now.

Safety and lead abatement requirements mean that construction of the venues for shooting are expensive. The shooting sports aren't terribly popular in a lot of countries due to draconian restrictions on firearms ownership, which means that there isn't a lot of interest in the competitors.

And worst of all, from the IOC's (and no doubt, NBC's) point of view the Olympic shooting sports are terribly boring for spectators, with relatively few people actually watching them on TV or the web, which makes them a losing proposition, profit-wise.

Furthermore, the shooting games allowed at the Olympics are all from a bygone era. The air gun and rimfire precision shooting games have been waning for quite some time, especially in the US, as most people who decide to shoot competitively are picking sports that are much more dynamic such as Steel Challenge, Cowboy Action Shooting, IPSC, and 3Gun.

After all, once you've felt the rush of blazing through a course of fire with a centerfire handgun, who wants to go shoot ten meter air pistol?

 

[russ69]

Gone are the days when Patton used a 38 Special for the pentathlon.

Just a minor point. Patton was not an Olympian. He only competed in the Military Olympics, not the same thing.
Anyway, the Olympic air pistol is already an expensive shooting tool that has no connection to any firearm (other than an Olympic free pistol). It's already a sport unique to itself. In a lot of countries an air gun is classified as a firearm and they are subject to the same restrictions. This will help that situation. I don't like it either but it will provide more competition and opportunities to compete, so for that reason it makes sense.

Thanx, Russ

 

[30mag]

They'll probably ban the laser pistols because you can shoot down jets with them.

 

[Justin]

This will help that situation. I don't like it either but it will provide more competition and opportunities to compete, so for that reason it makes sense.

The neutering of the shooting sports in the Olympics is part of the reason why many of the top shooters in the US don't take part. (Not to denigrate those, like Matt Emmons, who do shoot in the Olympics for the US.)

 

[berrieberrie]

And the main reason is ""sport", "self defence" is NOT an acceptable reason in most European countries.

Ah, but it IS a legal ground in Belgium - last time I checked, the "self defense" option was still on the application form. Of course, you still have to show some proof that you're at risk somehow (which is a bit ridiculous), but it's still possible to get such a permit...

 

[berrieberrie]

The shooting sports aren't terribly popular in a lot of countries due to draconian restrictions on firearms ownership, which means that there isn't a lot of interest in the competitors.

It depends how you define "shooting sports". In my country, the gun law is rather strict as well, but there's LOTS of people shooting and owning guns (for legitimate reasons, of course). But the shooting "sports" (such as the olympics) are much less interesting, mainly because of the - as so eloquently stated - "neutering": lots and lots of rules, a gun that more resembles a microscope and that doesn't make noise or big holes. Compare it to dancing: clubs and bars are packed every weekend, but the ballroom dancing competitions here are few and far between.

 

[chicharrones]

so how fast will this laser be travelling?

500 feet per second

 

[springmom]

Mothers of America strikes again. Now about this javelin event...

Ah, for the love of Pete. If I had one wish for gun boards it would be that the equation of mothers with antigunners would DISAPPEAR. Lots of women shoot. Lots of men hate guns. Get over it.

Jan

 

[bigalexe]

so how fast will this laser be travelling?

Velocity = sqrt(e/m)

 

[russ69]

The neutering of the shooting sports in the Olympics is part of the reason why many of the top shooters in the US don't take part. (Not to denigrate those, like Matt Emmons, who do shoot in the Olympics for the US.)

I'm not sure if this is true. I don't know of any Olympic quality shooters that have chosen not to compete. I have shot some Olympic sports, they just are not that popular mostly because the cost of the equipment and the difficulty of the shooting. I've never heard anyone say they won't shoot a free rifle cause, darn it. the rifle is too neutered? Olympic shooting still is of the highest standard.

Thanx, Russ

 

[JTHunter]

SO TRUE!!
As The Duke said in The Undefeated: "Windage and elevation, Mrs Langdon, Windage and elevation!"

As for the speed, light travels (in the vacuum of space) at 186,000 miles per second. Due to resistance and diffusion in the atmospere, light is slightly slower and even slower in water.
FYI

 

[mack]

What we really need is a real olympics - one that reflects more the spirit of martial arts and competition. Get rid of all the garbage sports and all the national teams and let all individuals and self regulated teams compete - if nations want to subsidize an team or teams fine - but no national banners - all comers compete.

Get all the martial sports that exist now and their organizations together where once every four years there is a wordwide martial arts olympics - IPSC, IDPA, Cowboy Action, sporting clays, the full auto boys, long range and/or sniper competitions, MMA/UFC. Also add in groups or just allow open competion in Bow and Arrow, fencing ect... Add other skill competitions that are part of modern martial skills sets - car racing or driving, motorcycle or dirt bike riding, piloting/racing airplanes, sky-diving, scuba competitions, paintball and/or simunitions, rapelling, climbing, ect...

For the decatholon - one athlete to compete in ten events including long range shooting, motorcycle racing, skydiving, scuba, running obstacle course, steel pistol or three gun, boxing, wrestling, a mile run, and the final simunitions with all ten going against one another.

Now who wouldn't want to see all that action, shooting, hitting, racing, cars, planes, motorcycles, machine guns, pistols, rifles, fighting...

 

[M-Cameron]

like said before, theyre not replacing firearms.....theyre replacing air pistols.........now the whole " safety" aspect is a load of crap....your average Olympic air pistol shoots at around 400-600 fps....with a .177 cal pellet thatll put out about 3 FPE....so unless there are a load of hemophiliac rodents they are worried about being hit......they have nothing to worry about....

and for reducing cost, heck, the pistol is the most expensive part, and i dont imagine these laser pistols costing any less.......i mean, if you can afford a $1000-3000 air pistol.......im sure you can chunk down the hefty $20-30 for 500 pellets(competition grade)

....as for putting the events in malls and what not..........a heavy blanket and some plywood will be more than enough to stop a pellet.......heck, air pistols are also silent....so there is no noise pollution.

its not about safety....its about "de-militarizing" the olympics....making it more PR so johnny watching at home wont get brainwashed into becoming a gun toting maniac....

i honestly hope a lot of shooters refuse to shoot in the events so they are forced to end this stupidity.......


you know, in the name of safety, i say we vote to remove the water from swimming events......dont want people drowning now do we.....

 

[Webbj0219]

Springmom, the quote about Mothers of America wasnt, against women in general. Mothers of America is an organization that focus' on making things safer. Sorta like the Brady organization. Except MOA doesnt focus specifically on guns like Brady does. From what my friend has told me MOA was responsible for getting rid of the rapel wall for Marine Corps boot camp at Paris Island. They thought it too dangerous. Thats about all I know of them.

 

[Zoogster]

What we really need is a real olympics - one that reflects more the spirit of martial arts and competition. Get rid of all the garbage sports and all the national teams and let all individuals and self regulated teams compete - if nations want to subsidize an team or teams fine - but no national banners - all comers compete.

Get all the martial sports that exist now and their organizations together where once every four years there is a wordwide martial arts olympics - IPSC, IDPA, Cowboy Action, sporting clays, the full auto boys, long range and/or sniper competitions, MMA/UFC. Also add in groups or just allow open competion in Bow and Arrow, fencing ect... Add other skill competitions that are part of modern martial skills sets - car racing or driving, motorcycle or dirt bike riding, piloting/racing airplanes, sky-diving, scuba competitions, paintball and/or simunitions, rapelling, climbing, ect...

That would be good.

On that point you know that was in fact the original purpose of the Olympics.
All of the Olympics had to do with skills used in warfare. It was a way for all the states to get together and remind each other in a peaceful way just how good they were at given skills of war at the time.
Giving some bragging rights, and obviously as a result discouraging actual war when others saw how good some of the potential enemy were.

The discus was a weapon thrown at enemy and over cover. The Javelin was a weapon thrown into the enemy. Wrestling was a measure of individual strength and grappling skills. Pole vaulting was how some got over enemy fortifications to gain entry into enemy areas. The hoplitodromos was a running race in full armor with a shield.
The ancient pentathlon combined several martial skills into an event, from running to weapon use.
The more modern version originally did the same.


The modern version of the Olympics would not really be the Olympics at all. There is appropriate shooting events held in the USA, but they are primarily domestic competition.
The modern version of the Olympics would be more along the lines of air shows, or joint military exercises between military forces where they compete.
Of course warfare has moved to a level that is not really open to individual competition beyond the infantry level.
Skills with a cutting edge vehicle or munition costing hundreds of millions to build, train with, and demonstrate in the spirit of the original games.
While the more affordable relevant events beyond firearms are typically not legal due to laws. Something like unguided AT rocket competitions, or mortar or similar artillery might be neat though and reasonably affordable.

What actually passes for shooting in the Olympics is so far removed from the practicality it was originally intended to simulate that the move to lasers is more of a political blow to firearms than much of an actual change in the event.
Air guns? .22s at the most?
Originally they used battle rifles in battle rifle calibers of the day, more on par with the original intent of the event.

 

[russ69]

What we really need is a real olympics - one that reflects more the spirit of martial arts and competition. Get rid of all the garbage sports and all the national teams and let all individuals and self regulated teams compete - if nations want to subsidize an team or teams fine - but no national banners - all comers compete.

We already have it, it's called the National Matches at Camp Perry. Real rifles, real competition and anyone can compete heads up. Men, women and even handicapped shooters can compete on an equal basis. Your country of origin only matters as to what rifle you can shoot.

Thanx, Russ

 

[bobmcd]

Well, maybe it will even out: pentathlon with laser pistols and winter biathlon with phased plasma rifles (in the 40-watt range)

 

[mack]

Camp Perry is wonderful - but it is restricted to shooting rifles at known distances and thus limited compared to the original concept of the Olympics and also compared to the fuller panoply of martial arts skills.

Yes, military against military would in some sense be more a true test of martial arts - but even in the original Olympics - they did not to my knowledge use many of the siege weapons of war - the warship galleys - or compete in formations like the phalanx which all were integral and crucial parts of military success and power in the day.

Even then the focus was on the skill of individual warriors and martial artists.


Besides guys - it would be so awesome.

 

[killchain]

It's not quite the same as the Olympics are doing. Simunitions allow for interactive force on force training. This way we can teach live gunfighting & shooting at moving targets that shoot back without killing each other. At least here in WI it can't replace square range live fire training.

Yes, Simunitions.

Used those. Those consisting of the sphincter type will shoot you in the legs to make it hurt.

I loved the Army, haha.

 

[Guns and more]

In their defense, I think that their safety concern was more about being able to put ranges in populated areas without worry. I don't think that they were worried about athletes shooting each other.

Maybe they should limit the pole vault to 6', so they could practice in normal rooms.

But wait. Let's give everyone a gold medal so no one gets their feelings hurt.

 

[jakeiscrazy]

I'm just waiting for a 50 BMG laser rifle!

I also want to see a mag dump and reload done with a laser pistol.

 

[Webbj0219]

Jakeiscrazy, it would probably be a nicle-cadmium dump and a fresh battery reload.

But hey maybe they are just practicinbg for the future? In those star wars movies I seem to remember them using laser pistols. Maybe these will be common place soon? So the Olympics commitee decided to practice with these ahead of time. Besides lasers are way cooler than air soft. lol

 

[Jaybird78]

F-u-b-a-r