Number of anti's on THR?

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Hiro- False utopias work well on small minded uneducated folk. They latch on tight with both hands and won't let go. Just look at communism, some people still believe in that.
 
RPCVYemen:
Please note my use of the word 'only' - 'But if you only point to an entire group of people and state "they shouldn't have guns"'.

My point was that if the entire basis of the argument is "this makes me unhappy and it should make you unhappy too", then that is an appeal to emotion logical fallacy. It's a particularly important logical fallacy in this debate in that it also includes such classics as:

"The evil black rifles look scary and we should ban them."

and:

"Don't you feel ashamed at what happened at Virginia Tech? Don't you want to do something about it?"

If the argument looks more like this (and for those not paying attention, this is NOT my belief):

All AR-15 fans are mentally ill.
All mentally ill people shouldn't have guns.
Therefore AR-15 fans shouldn't have guns.

THEN at least it's being logical. But the burden of responsibility is still on whoever says this - they have to offer proof. Without proof of the first two statements, they are gratuitous assertions which can be just as gratuitously denied, and the argument falls apart.

My point is that they're not even framing a valid argument, under rules that western civilization had in place for roughly 2000 years before individual firearms ownership even became an issue.

Comments like "The antis get all the ammo they need from the kids on arfcom" imply that they are able to frame an argument from the content on that site. They aren't, and statements like that only make rational discussion all the more difficult.
 
Sig Forum

Go over to the SIG FORUM where you will meet some of the most rude "experts" I have ever had the displeasure to have been associated with.

It gets PERSONAL and damned fast and the owner is a JERK and will ban you from the forum for disagreeing with the band of brothers who run the place.

For a gun forum I'd swear these guys are anti as it gets. /in private emails I was given to believe you just don't challenge the main theme voices...some with ideas that are strange for gun owners and shooting supporters.

I just left it to them and have not been back.

The forum of exchange of ideas and free thought is always welcome but personal attacks are no freedom of speech and have no place on any board.

End of rant..
 
I'm sure they come here... I just hope they can have some misconceptions and disinformation dispelled about guns and gun owners during their stay.


THR probably does about as good a job of this as any board out there IMO.
 
I'm not an "anti".

I'm a long time Liberal (not a "Progressive", a Liberal) and yet I support the right of people to own guns. Why should conservatives have all the fun? Gun-toting liberals fought against Franco and Hitler and ought to be prepared to do it again.

I think that rifles and shotguns for hunting (and competition and target shooting and blowing the c**p out of empty soda cans) should be readily available but that handguns should be registered.

I think that any male using a firearm in the commission of a crime should be castrated. Some people would say that there's no connection between the crime and that particular punishment but I bet you it'd be an effective deterrent. I still haven't figured out what to do about women that use a firearm in the commission of a crime.

I think that any jurisdiction that wants to restrict or ban the possession of any type, or all types, of firearms ought to be able to do so. If you don't like the restrictions, move.

I think that any firearms dealer that has a pattern of illegal arms sales should be put out of business ASAP and his ass ought to wind up in jail. Maybe the castration thing for them too.

I believe that there are a lot of people out there that ignore the "well regulated militia" part of the 2nd amendment.

I think that Wayne LaPierre is an annoying a**hole.

I think that someone should invent a trigger lock that would stop anyone from opening it if they if they were drunk. Said lock could be opened in a true emergency but then you have to destroy the gun. Your reward for using a lock like this would be something like REALLY low insurance rates or something like that.

I believe that guns don't kill people, bullets kill people, unless you club someone to death with a rifle butt.
 
I have met a lot of antis

I even converted a few, but many antis are fanatical and are filled with oxymorons.

Some of the most extreme anti-gunners are like anti-abortion activists, they are willing to use terrorism such as fire or assassination to bring them down. That is an oxymoron, you are claiming to be pro-life and against violence, yet you are trying to use it. It is very hard to understand these people's minds.

There is a few posts here on THR which talked about antis demonstrating in front of gun shops. Why the disorderly conduct? These gun shops are LEGAL FOR GOD'S SAKE, it's not like a gun shop in a neighborhood would make the surrounding people psychotic.

Yet thats what the antis believe. They believe that the presence of a firearm would make somebody go crazy and start shooting innocent people. However, there was a time when humans believed that witches could fly on broomsticks and that the Earth was flat too. BS claims must be proven by science. If an anti tries to make a debate but fails to use the most basic understanding of science and the scientific nature of the world, presto, there goes a loser.

In short, some antis are really, REALLY crazy. They even believe that people who are sick should not visit the doctor because it violates nature to ingest medicines that would treat our illness. Kind of like the Falun Gong, they are very anti gun and their messages are chilling.

There are extremists almost everywhere.
 
goon said:
What's wrong with an emotional argument?

Is it rational, logical thinking that makes you angry when you hear about some kid getting drowned in a bathtub or some young woman getting raped?
I can tell you that it sure isn't logic that makes me think things like that are wrong. It is all emotion and I'm pefectly OK with that.

A little OT, but I still thought it needed said.
Click to expand...

Emotionalism is wildly subjective and cannot be reliably proved/disproved. OTOH logic can be tested and is built from supported points. Also if you are willing to elevate and legitimize one feeling, why not all of them?

What disgusts one man may evoke a "meh" from another. IOW emotions are not universal, supportable, provable, repeatable, or lasting.

That said, sometimes one dose of emotional rhetoric can sway people quicker than a million facts. Just look at mob dynamics and political speeches.

The best of both worlds is good heartfelt emotional rhetoric backed by data: Hearts and minds.
 
RPCVYemen and Legionnaire mention antis that simply have different value systems. I have yet to have a discussion with an anti who did not either change the facts or completely ignore facts that didn't fit with their argument.

For instance, guns save many times more lives every year than are lost to gun violence, making guns a net asset to society.

I wouldn't call any value system that ignores the truth rational.
 
Omahanew wrote:

I'm not an "anti".

I'm a long time Liberal (not a "Progressive", a Liberal) and yet I support the right of people to own guns. Why should conservatives have all the fun? Gun-toting liberals fought against Franco and Hitler and ought to be prepared to do it again.

I think that rifles and shotguns for hunting (and competition and target shooting and blowing the c**p out of empty soda cans) should be readily available but that handguns should be registered.
Click to expand...

No narrowing of the 2A there. No evidence of an anti.

I think that any male using a firearm in the commission of a crime should be castrated. Some people would say that there's no connection between the crime and that particular punishment but I bet you it'd be an effective deterrent. I still haven't figured out what to do about women that use a firearm in the commission of a crime.
Click to expand...

Well, cut something off. We agree here. Maybe you are not a total liberal.

I think that any jurisdiction that wants to restrict or ban the possession of any type, or all types, of firearms ought to be able to do so. If you don't like the restrictions, move.
Click to expand...

Here we go with reasonable restrictions again. I suppose you would allow some restrictions of your free speech and vote, oh and how about warrantless wiretaps and no knock warrants?

I think that any firearms dealer that has a pattern of illegal arms sales should be put out of business ASAP and his ass ought to wind up in jail. Maybe the castration thing for them too.
Click to expand...

Already illegal, i agree on the punishment if he is guilty.

I believe that there are a lot of people out there that ignore the "well regulated militia" part of the 2nd amendment.
Click to expand...

We can get all into a long discussion on the militia. Let's just say that if you are XY you were, maybe still are part of the REAL definnition of a member of the militia as mentioned in the 2A.

I think that Wayne LaPierre is an annoying a**hole.
Click to expand...

Since this is THR, I will not say that I think this statement applies to you as well. You said it first. I have met him and I hold him in high esteem.

I think that someone should invent a trigger lock that would stop anyone from opening it if they if they were drunk. Said lock could be opened in a true emergency but then you have to destroy the gun. Your reward for using a lock like this would be something like REALLY low insurance rates or something like that.
Click to expand...

This will not affect insurance rates as much as you think. Maybe cars should be equipped with those locks.

I believe that guns don't kill people, bullets kill people, unless you club someone to death with a rifle butt.
Click to expand...

Agree

You are an anti. You never left your anti card at the door when you wrote this. Thanks for sharing!

Anygun
 
(feeding the trolls)

I'm not an "anti".

I'm a long time Liberal (not a "Progressive", a Liberal) and yet I support the right of people to own guns (so long as they are for the purpose I believe in such as) :.

I think that rifles and shotguns for hunting (and competition and target shooting and blowing the c**p out of empty soda cans) should be readily available but that handguns should be registered (and therefore subject to confiscation at any time).

I think that any male using a firearm in the commission of a crime should be castrated (tortured and neutered for no rational reason). Some people would say that there's no connection between the crime and that particular punishment but I bet you it'd be an effective deterrent (because I know this personally). I still haven't figured out what to do about women that use a firearm in the commission of a crime (because I do not understand women, but I think what is good for the gander is good for the goose, I just have not yet figured out how to do it yet).

I think that any jurisdiction that wants to restrict or ban the possession of any type, or all types, of firearms ought to be able to do so. If you don't like the restrictions, move. (what I meant in the first paragraph about people being allowed to own guns I did not really mean at all)

I think that any firearms dealer that has a pattern of illegal arms sales (That is to say the dealer has not committted any crime but should be punished anyway or if they commit a crime than should be allowed to keep doing it until I say stop) should be put out of business ASAP and his ass ought to wind up in jail. Maybe the castration thing for them too (because after all you can never have a large enough pile of testicles in city hall).

I believe that there are a lot of people out there that ignore the "well regulated militia" part of the 2nd amendment. (I don't really know what it means myself but I think it has something to do with the National guard)

I think that Wayne LaPierre is an annoying a**hole. (I need to buy a thesaurus but am running low on funds)

I think that someone should invent a trigger lock that would stop anyone from opening it if they if they were drunk (because after all you don't need to defend yourself when you are drunk and drinking is bad). Said lock could be opened in a true emergency but then you have to destroy the gun (And castrate the owner... sometimes I even impress myself). Your reward for using a lock like this would be something like REALLY low insurance rates or something like that (because home owners insurance is so gosh darn high right now).

I believe that guns don't kill people, bullets kill people, unless you club someone to death with a rifle butt (bullets, unlike guns are antimate. They fly fast and hard strike with an evil intent. They are always there lurking for you, just waiting to strike)
Click to expand...

There I fixed your post for you and added your thoughts that I could feel leaking form the screen. (My comments look like this, so that you are not confused)
 
See?

For some of these amusing guys......either you are a "pry it from my cold, dead fingers," guy......or you're an anti.

All they do is hurt the cause.
 
Titan, and hence why democracy is a failure.

Wisdom and intellect are not additive.
 
Titan, I wouldn't even really say it's any better really than any other form of government. Looked at in their entirety they all appear to stink about equally.

But then I am skeptical of government being a good idea, period.
 
Bow To Me

I am not an "anti," I am your master.

You should only want to do those things that make me happy.

I, in turn, only want happiness for you, in your fulfillment of my dreams.

Since my will is your law, it will be much more convenient to achieving my goals if you will all give up your guns, as they make it difficult for me to peacefully impose my will upon you.

You may go now.

I will send for you when I need you.
 
"I think that someone should invent a trigger lock that would stop anyone from opening it if they if they were drunk."

Right after someone invents a keyboard with the same feature.

John
 
I don't know how many Anti gun folks we have here, but we certainly do have lot's of anti freedom big government types.

I think that any jurisdiction that wants to restrict or ban the possession of any type, or all types, of firearms ought to be able to do so. If you don't like the restrictions, move.
Click to expand...

Except for that darn pseky shall not be infringed part huh? Is it ok for certain jurisdictions to say" No Blacks, Whites or Hindus allowed"?

I believe that guns don't kill people, bullets kill people, unless you club someone to death with a rifle butt.
Click to expand...

Slow down a minute there buddy, inanimate objects have no will of thier own(they are inanimate see?). Bulletts, guns, knives bats rocks cars water matches golf clubs(tell me when to stop) are all TOOLS that human beings use to kill each other.


For some of these amusing guys......either you are a "pry it from my cold, dead fingers," guy......or you're an anti.

All they do is hurt the cause.
Click to expand...


Then there are those people who think by playing nice that the socialists will just see the light and not punish us for practicing our BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS.
 
Uh.... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.........

So, omahanew, I'm going to be the guy who calmly tries to explain in detail what's already been mentioned.

You said absolutely nothing about law, order, society, or the function of government.
One of the core issues with the pro 2nd crowd (which I hope you'll join someday, but it doesn't look likely) is that we have a law on the books which says that we have a right to own guns.

This right is in the same section of the same document which protects speech, religion, protects against illegal searches, gives women the right to vote, etc, etc.... all of the stuff that makes our society work.

Of course, it also says we can't castrate anyone. So follow me here: if you're ignoring the whole no-castrating thing, there's nothing holding you to the right to keep and bear arms thing.

It's a neat document. I really wish you and everyone else would check into it.
 
Gator said:
For instance, guns save many times more lives every year than are lost to gun violence, making guns a net asset to society.
Click to expand...

I am not an anti, but I would like to know the stats on this one. Do you have a citation? Are these hypothetical or measured stats?

Mike
 
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