Number of Rounds or Functionality ?

[Gun Master]

I previously advocated dropping the "+1" in functional capacity for semi-autos. The guns were designed to be used with the number of rounds in the magazine. Although a gun may hold an extra rd. in the chamber, that does not mean it will function as well with a full mag, plus the extra in the chamber.
A full mag binding against the bottom of the slide can cause malfunctions.

Also, leaving a full mag for an extended length of time can cause feeding problems.

I am sure some (many?) will state unequivocally their gun does "great" with the +1. Let's hear from you then, please. I'm not infallible.

But, in the May 2015 issue of Guns Magazine, on page 14 under Handguns, noted author Massad Ayoob defends this practice with several semi-autos mentioned. He even advocates less rds. than maximum mag capacity when he states :

"...a (Browning) Hi Power that worked 100 percent with 14 in it plus the chambered round...but to this day, I load no more than a dozen in a Hi Power's magazine. The lesson? Twelve for sure beats 13 maybe."

 

[mgmorden]

I've never had a gun give reliability trouble with the mag topped off - and I've tried virtually all of mine that way.

What I have noticed on some is that a full mag doesn't like to seat against a closed slide due to the top round having no give. For those guns that have that issue I'd advocate downloading your RELOAD mags by one to make sure you can seat them quickly if needed, but for the initial/start mag load it up.

 

[Comrade Mike]

So Mossad's position is

"I never saw a problem with it but I down load anyway"

Yeah I'll continue with 13+1 in my Hi Power. 14 for sure beats 12 for sure.

 

[Snyper]

"...a (Browning) Hi Power that worked 100 percent with 14 in it plus the chambered round...but to this day, I load no more than a dozen in a Hi Power's magazine.

The lesson? Twelve for sure beats 13 maybe."

Where's the "maybe" in a gun that worked 100% fully loaded?

All mine work 100% with a full mag and one in the chamber

 

[JDGray]

Why does it matter what a gun rag writes? I've never in my 30 years of shooging, ever seen a +1 malf....

 

[strambo]

I've never encountered a problem with it.

 

[Officers'Wife]

I'm trying to consider where a full magazine would cause a problem that would affect performance. The only thing I can come up with would be metal fatigue on the spring in the magazine which, quite frankly, is rather hard to imagine with a quality product. My Commander always has a full magazine with the +1 and hasn't had a feed failure since I've had it. My Dad keeps the Luger magazine full all the time and it likewise hasn't shown a problem. He shoots that handgun at most twice a year so the magazine spring is compressed for several months at a time.

What I'm seeing failure of one of my magazines would more likely come from the fact I practice regularly more than the spring is always compressed. Consider: if you take a piece of #9 wire and repeatably bend and straighten it the wire will eventually break from the continual use.

 

[Hangingrock]

Massad Ayoob, I read his written words in articles and books. He has a viewpoint and a pulpit to speak the gospel as he sees it. One may either accept his viewpoint or reject it. The same is true for all concepts communicated in one form or the other. Its up to you the reader/recipient to accept or reject what is being communicated.

 

[M-Cameron]

"...a (Browning) Hi Power that worked 100 percent with 14 in it plus the chambered round...but to this day, I load no more than a dozen in a Hi Power's magazine. The lesson? Twelve for sure beats 13 maybe."

a lot of people see something written by Mas and automatically assume it must be the truth......it never dawns on them that he is a human, with his own opinions, and on occasion, has the ability to be mistaken.

this quote to me seems to reinforce that, and quite frankly it baffles me.....the gun functions 100% when loaded to capacity....then why would you ASSUME it functions improperly when your own testing proves it doesnt.

thats like saying," my car runs fine when i fill the tank, but i never fill it more than half way just to be safe"......its completely illogical.

I previously advocated dropping the "+1" in functional capacity for semi-autos. The guns were designed to be used with the number of rounds in the magazine.

this is also not true.

look at S&W, Ruger, Keltec, ect.....they all list their firearms as "capacity +1"....indicating to me that they are DESIGNED to function properly with a fully loaded magazine with one in the chamber.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Modern firearms....

I've seen this topic come up from time to time on message boards & gun forums.
It's been a mix of those who D/L pistol mags and those who "top off" or keep modern guns fully loaded.
As a former US Army MP, I always heard it was prudent to keep pistol magazines not fully loaded.
Modern pistol magazines can handle full loads IMO. You should check the mags often & make sure the lips aren't broken or the follower doesn't work.
I now keep my M&P Shield 9mm fully loaded but I store my big Glock 21 gen 04 .45acp with a few rounds less, just to insure proper feeding-cycles. I use Liberty Ammunition Civil Defense & my extra magazine has 11rd of Ranger T/T Series 230gr +P JHP. The LE trade in Glock 21 never had any feeding or magazine problems but I feel safer leaving a round or two out.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

That was a well known issue with the BHP going back decades. The SAS carried 12 by policy. I've not found any modern auto in my own experience to have a problem loaded +1. When I get a new gun that I might potentially CCW I take it to the range and test it; I'll load it to capacity, charge the gun then add another round and fire one round, remove the mag and re-top it. I'll do this a dozen or more time. I'll repeat it firing a few rounds, then topping. Only when I'm confident of function will I run the gun topped-off/+1.

So far every gun I've owned except my BHP runs fine this way, with Mec-Gar mags my BHP has no problems, either. The really weird thing with the BHP is that regardless of stated cap, some of the mags will hold 12, some 13, and a couple 14! So when the BHP was my primary CCW I simply ran it with 12 in the mag and one in the pipe.

 

[Phaedrus/69]

BTW, I acknowledge that more rounds is better than less but I'm not obsessed with capacity. Occasionally if I'm in a hurry I'll insert a full mag and just charge the gun and go without topping it off. Maybe someday I'll die because I had 15 in the gun where a 16th would have saved me but it's the chance I occasionally take.

This applies only to double stacks, though. I'd never download my Nano since it only holds six or eight depending on the mag. I took great pains to verify those would all work +1.

 

[1911 guy]

I don't carry plus-one, but it's simply for consistency. Whether I'm shooting the first mag or a reload, there's seven in the gun. I do "Barney up" at the range and know my guns run 100 percent that way. But I still stick with habit.

 

[Gerald1222]

In my hk uspc Le .40 12+1 and my glock 23 13+1... I put my trust in the designers of the firearms and the grueling testing that has been performed, That the gun will function fully loaded. and they do.

 

[GLOOB]

"...a (Browning) Hi Power that worked 100 percent with 14 in it plus the chambered round...but to this day, I load no more than a dozen in a Hi Power's magazine. The lesson? Twelve for sure beats 13 maybe."

The British armed forces discovered that their specific Browning HP mags were not all reliable loaded plus one. Through years/decades of service, anyway. It became part of their manual of arms to load them minus one.

It pays to know your own firearms. But the only way to know is to load it all the way and see what happens.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I have carried 3 different duty weapons over the past 20+ years fully loaded, plus 1. I have never had issues nor witnessed the practice causing anyone issues.

 

[MedWheeler]

I've owned and shot numerous autoloaders, both rimfire and centerfire, and have never seen an issue except with a rimfire pistol from FEG of Hungary. The gun is an AP-22, a .22LR version of their PA-63. Rock-solid, excellently-built, and fun to shoot. But the only issue is that the first round in a fully-loaded magazine (the last one inserted) will not feed when manually chambering. I have to chamber the first-to-be-fired round from a downloaded magazine, even if downloaded by only one round, then finish filling the magazine. However, with the chamber loaded, and a full magazine below it, the gun runs fine. I cannot rule out a magazine issue because I have no other magazines for this rather rare piece.

In other guns, I see no difference between whether the top-most round in a fully-loaded magazine is chambered manually, or by the cycling of the slide when the gun is fired.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

I just roll my eyes whenever I read or hear somebody saying "plus one" about anything with respect to capacity.

OK. I get it. You chambered a round and topped off the magazine. Whoop-dee-doo.

Maybe I should start referring to my Colt Peacemaker as a "6 minus 1" when I'm carrying that around in my holster.

 

[45_auto]

a (Browning) Hi Power that worked 100 percent with 14 in it plus the chambered round

What kind of High Power mags is he using that hold 14 rounds plus one in the chamber? All my factory mags only hold 13. Maybe if he quit using some off-brand aftermarket mags he could load to capacity?

Or could it be that he just needed to fill some magazine space and cranked out some crap?

 

[HexHead]

What kind of High Power mags is he using that hold 14 rounds plus one in the chamber? All my factory mags only hold 13. Maybe if he quit using some off-brand aftermarket mags he could load to capacity?

Or could it be that he just needed to fill some magazine space and cranked out some crap?

Actually Mec-Gar now makes 15 round BHP mags. Hardly off-brand, they makes the OEM mags for many companies including for the BHP.

 

[Sav .250]

Using common sense doesn`t cost a cent. It`s the after effects that are can be costly.

 

[Wishoot]

I previously advocated dropping the "+1" in functional capacity for semi-autos. The guns were designed to be used with the number of rounds in the magazine. Although a gun may hold an extra rd. in the chamber, that does not mean it will function as well with a full mag, plus the extra in the chamber.
A full mag binding against the bottom of the slide can cause malfunctions.

Also, leaving a full mag for an extended length of time can cause feeding problems.

I am sure some (many?) will state unequivocally their gun does "great" with the +1. Let's hear from you then, please. I'm not infallible.

But, in the May 2015 issue of Guns Magazine, on page 14 under Handguns, noted author Massad Ayoob defends this practice with several semi-autos mentioned. He even advocates less rds. than maximum mag capacity when he states :

"...a (Browning) Hi Power that worked 100 percent with 14 in it plus the chambered round...but to this day, I load no more than a dozen in a Hi Power's magazine. The lesson? Twelve for sure beats 13 maybe."

My 1982 Hi-Power is finicky with a full mag. Downloading by one seems to help quite a bit for some reason.

Maybe has something to do with the older, humped feed-ramp? I'm not exactly sure.

I can top off all of my other pistols and have never had a problem.

 

[Drail]

The issue is not so much the design of the firearm as it is the quality of the springs used in the magazine (and most manufacturers do not make the magazines or the spring). Your gun depends on springs to run - no matter who designed it. Many people truly believe that magazine springs never fail only because they have never seen one fail. I have seen them fail and I have worn them out. They're not forever. Especially when some designer decides that there is room to jam one more round into a magazine. That spring has to go somewhere. Compressing the spring until it is wadded up into a solid mass is not the way to get good service life from a spring.

 

[ATLDave]

Huh. I run my USPSA limited-class gun at +6 all the time (1 in the chamber, 5 extra in the mag extension and via the low-height follower). So far, with many thousands of rounds through it, it has been very reliable. Am I defying the laws of physics? Or does this depend entirely on the particular gun and magazine (and perhaps ammo)?

 

[45_auto]

"...a (Browning) Hi Power that worked 100 percent with 14 in it plus the chambered round

Actually Mec-Gar now makes 15 round BHP mags. Hardly off-brand, they makes the OEM mags for many companies including for the BHP.

Maybe Ayoob doesn't know that his 14 round magazines are really 15 round magazines?

I've seen more 13, 10, 15, 20, and 30 round Hi-Power magazines than I can count.

Still never seen a 14 round one per his quote.