NY Proposes a Law Exempting Retired LEO's

[heyjoe]

it would be helpful in the interest of fairness if the posters who post generalizations such as most police or retired police are elitest, corrupt, brutal, not gun friendly, ignorant etc, would post their occupations and/or professions so that we are all on a level playing field and able to make observations and post experiences as well. I note a distinct lack of sharing any details of their own chosen fields of work on the part of most.

 

[Deanimator]

it would be helpful in the interest of fairness if the posters who post generalizations such as most police or retired police are elitest, corrupt, brutal, not gun friendly, ignorant etc, would post their occupations and/or professions so that we are all on a level playing field and able to make observations and post experiences as well. I note a distinct lack of sharing any details of their own chosen fields of work on the part of most.

1. I don't know what percentage of cops are corrupt or arrogant across the country. I do have some idea of particular departments, but it's irrelevant.
2. Cops are no more deserving of a right to have effective self-defense than any other public employees. A cop, active or retired has no more or less need for a thirty round magazine than a garbage man or a lifeguard.
3. Public employees, be they cops or highway maintenance workers have no more or less right to effective self-defense than any private citizen, be he an accountant or a rodeo clown.
4. Attempts to exempt cops, active or retired from laws which affect private citizens are INVARIABLY attempts to create a caste system of people with greater or lesser value in the body politic. Such attempts are utterly despicable and should be vehemently condemned and opposed to the bitter end.
5. When somebody proposes legislation to exempt IT professionals from various repressive, unAmerican anti-gun laws, you'll have a point. Until then you're arguing for a separate and unequal society. My answer, as always, is "NO, I REFUSE."

 

[heyjoe]

all of which has absolutely nothing to do with what i just posted.
find a post i made where i ever advocated for a seperate standard. I lobbied against the NY Safe Act and have contributed toward the legal challenge to it.

 

[jhb]

Last I looked a retired police officer or soldier is a citizen.

I come from military family and I respect our military and police officiers. Hard, dangerous job, but once retired or out......y'all are just citizens. Having special exempt groups is a setup for all wrong, imho. Ymmv.

 

[wickedsprint]

What about military? I have fired enough rounds through my issued side arm to have the barrel changed twice. Why should a cop be exempt?

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

With a few exceptions, not enough for them to trust non MPs with loaded weapons on base!

 

[wickedsprint]

While I realize many civilian shooters are highly trained, LEO's are documented in their training, have for the most part shown some restraint over their careers, have a working knowledge of the law, and are thought by some to be an asset to law enforcement even while retired.

Agree.

 

[Torian]

I would like to point out that we should make sure we direct our anger at this towards the politicians and union leaders that negotiate these backroom deals, rather than your ground level LEO who doesn't have much say in the process.

If they do get additional rights that we don't, it doesn't necessarily mean that they asked for special treatment to begin with. I'm not going to hold it against LEOs for the disgustingly hypocritical performance of the state legislature.

 

[itsa pain]

I would like to point out that we should make sure we direct our anger at this towards the politicians and union leaders that negotiate these backroom deals, rather than your ground level LEO who doesn't have much say in the process.

If they do get additional rights that we don't, it doesn't necessarily mean that they asked for special treatment to begin with. I'm not going to hold it against LEOs for the disgustingly hypocritical performance of the state legislature.

but they cash the checks that the union leaders and politicians got for them

 

[itsa pain]

it would be helpful in the interest of fairness if the posters who post generalizations such as most police or retired police are elitest, corrupt, brutal, not gun friendly, ignorant etc, would post their occupations and/or professions so that we are all on a level playing field and able to make observations and post experiences as well. I note a distinct lack of sharing any details of their own chosen fields of work on the part of most.

I am a carpenter ,roofer, concrete and block man framer and sider. fire away. since I do not think I am better then anybody else or not on a pedestal I could care less what people think and if you had a bad experience with one of the above you have the right to dislike them

 

[Deanimator]

If they do get additional rights that we don't, it doesn't necessarily mean that they asked for special treatment to begin with.

Have you ever seen them repudiate the union or the special privileges it gets them over and above mere citizens?

I didn't think so.

When they refuse to be put above the public, you'll have an argument. Until then, you're just making excuses for them... and quite badly at that.

 

[ilbob]

Have you ever seen them repudiate the union or the special privileges it gets them over and above mere citizens?

I didn't think so.

When they refuse to be put above the public, you'll have an argument. Until then, you're just making excuses for them... and quite badly at that.

questioning whether cops should get special privileges is just about guaranteed to get the thread locked.

 

[Torian]

Have you ever seen them repudiate the union or the special privileges it gets them over and above mere citizens?

I didn't think so.

When they refuse to be put above the public, you'll have an argument. Until then, you're just making excuses for them... and quite badly at that.

Are you asking me or telling me? I can't figure it out...since you seems to be answering your own questions.

You appear set in your belief that this is a union-driven effort and not something that was initiated in the legislature, and that LEOs in general collectively believe they are a more privileged class than us. There are a lot of generalizations going on here with little or no evidence cited.

Unions are not like the House of Representatives or the Senate, where Jr. members can get up and "repudiate" the leadership about what they don't like. You are stuck with what you have, and you just hope they like what they give you.

 

[Elessar]

I'll just leave this here: Robert Peel is considered to be one of, if not the, father of modern policing. Sure would be nice if our reality today reflected this attitude.

"The police are the public and the public are the police; the police being only members of the public who are paid to give full time attention to duties which are incumbent on every citizen in the interests of community welfare and existence." -Sir Robert Peel

 

[Deanimator]

Are you asking me or telling me? I can't figure it out...since you seems to be answering your own questions.

We both know what the answer is.

The difference is that I'm willing to say it plainly.

They don't care what the union does, right or wrong, so long as it benefits them. They couldn't care less if it benefits the public or grievously harms them. To pretend that these special privileges and elevated caste status is being FORCED on them is risible.

They're out for themselves. There's no benefit to me in pretending otherwise. It's pure, naked self-interest on their part.

 

[all357mag]

When I joined my dept. I had already had my NY CCW permit for 10yrs. I inquired to dept. personel about purchasing with badge. I was told don't do it! Everything purchased with badge goes to dept. upon leaving, or retirement. Buy weapons on your private permit, this is what I was told!

 

[Speedo66]

We both know what the answer is.

The difference is that I'm willing to say it plainly.

They don't care what the union does, right or wrong, so long as it benefits them. They couldn't care less if it benefits the public or grievously harms them. To pretend that these special privileges and elevated caste status is being FORCED on them is risible.

They're out for themselves. There's no benefit to me in pretending otherwise. It's pure, naked self-interest on their part.

This is really quite an unbelievable statement. First of all, probably the only union capable of getting this done was the NYPD's. They don't necessarily share their political agenda with anybody else. This bill may have come as a surprise to other unions and officers.

Second, sorry, but it's not in human nature to pass on any benefit offered, regardless of profession. If they told truck drivers that since they were professionals, they would now be able to drive 10 MPH faster than anybody else on the road, how many would say, "Oh no, not until you offer this benefit to everyone else". Be realistic.

 

[itsa pain]

all of which has absolutely nothing to do with what i just posted.
find a post i made where i ever advocated for a seperate standard. I lobbied against the NY Safe Act and have contributed toward the legal challenge to it.

hey joe where you goin with that gun in your hand

 

[itsa pain]

Last I looked a retired police officer or soldier is a citizen.

I come from military family and I respect our military and police officiers. Hard, dangerous job, but once retired or out......y'all are just citizens. Having special exempt groups is a setup for all wrong, imho. Ymmv.

when police are working they are still a citizen

 

[Deanimator]

This is really quite an unbelievable statement.

There's a difference between not being able to believe something and not WANTING to.

A claim that cops, especially RETIRED cops, are somehow FORCED to take advantage of special privileges that elevate them above citizens is simply not even worth consideration. It's an EXCUSE, and a profoundly lame one.

The idea that they are somehow UNABLE to condemn despicable acts by unions is beneath contempt. Their department can fire them. The union CAN'T.

 

[Speedo66]

Don't forget to change the aluminum foil on your hat every so often.

A union is supposed to gain benefits for it's members.

 

[itsa pain]

Don't forget to change the aluminum foil on your hat every so often.

A union is supposed to gain benefits for it's members.

by bankrupting every thing ? the cities that went under in Cal. had over 80% of ALL their money go to police and firemen. that is extortion by an armed gang. those guys go around sporting the flag and say they are "conservative" yet their unions are to the left of karl marx

 

[Deanimator]

A union is supposed to gain benefits for it's members.

...at the expense of the interests of the public at large?

I'm not a member. They do NOTHING for me.

The Chicago lodge of the FOP demanded that cops (and ONLY cops) convicted of domestic violence be allowed to own and carry firearms.

They may have the right to do it.

They DON'T have the right to be respected for it.

 

[wickedsprint]

There's a difference between not being able to believe something and not WANTING to.

A claim that cops, especially RETIRED cops, are somehow FORCED to take advantage of special privileges that elevate them above citizens is simply not even worth consideration. It's an EXCUSE, and a profoundly lame one.

The idea that they are somehow UNABLE to condemn despicable acts by unions is beneath contempt. Their department can fire them. The union CAN'T.

What happened that made you hate cops?

 

[Deanimator]

What happened that made you hate cops?

What happened that made you not believe in equal protection under the law?

 

[lateapex31]

Probably dealing with the average LEO and their apologists was enough....