Off Duty 65 Year Old Baltimore LEO,Shot Dead By On Duty Officers

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If I'm wading into a fight, and I have a sidearm on, I'd probably put the brass knuckles on my non-dominant side, for just that reason.

Tim,

That was the way "back in the day" sap glove was on your off hand so you could still shoot etc. The sap glove on your off hand allowed many advantages, I can't think of a disadvantage :uhoh: Boy those were some times of pure adrenaline, what a high...

:)
 
I don't understand all the conspiracy theories. Occam's razor: the simplest solution will often be the correct one.

Drunk off-duty cop who likes to get in fights goes outside to have some "fun", in his stupor doesn't realize it is a cop, doesn't comply, gets tazed, instinctually draws his gun and gets shot. How could he not know it was a uniformed cop...because he was drunk!!!

Unless a tox report comes out saying he was sober, I can't see why I'd entertain a complex mistake-conspiracy, throw-down-knuckles, theory.
 
That's pretty much how I'm looking at it - sometimes bad things just happen. I mean, yes, there could have been some crazy cabal out to get Officer Stamp, but that'd have to be one hell of a setup, considering the cops weren't even called out to the bar because of him or his friends in the first place. Add to that Stamp's actions (knuckles, gun) and it really, really starts to get hard to spin into anything other than what it (most likely) was: a huge, huge cluster-f**k that ended in a life being taken.
 
I've never been drunk enough not to notice a cop uniform.

Occam's razor? Occasionally, when you hear hoofbeats behind you,
there really is a zebra instead of a horse.

Biker
 
Maybe my hands are just big. It also occurred to me that - while I've never been tased - when an electrical current is applied to the human body, the muscles violently contract so Stamp's hand would make a fist, retaining the 'knucks.

Once the current stops, so do the muscle contractions. That's why you see people getting up immediately after a Taser hit.
 
Well, I can count the times I've been drunk on one hand, so I don't have a lot of experience. However, on some of those few occasions I wouldn't have known the difference between a cop in uniform and a spaceman. If a spaceman was zapping me with his death ray, you bet I'd try to shoot him (both of him).:uhoh:
 
I'd really like to see the tox report.

I rarely get drunk, but when I have been drunk and saw a cop uniform, I sobered up immediately.

Biker
 
Drunk is an interesting term...Which is misused a lot.

Under the influence is what most are to a certain degree. But in the case of 647.f PC CA: It is a situation where "you are unable to care for self or property". Not just under the influence.

Drunk is that "Drunk"...Sleepiness, stupor, coma, or even death from respiratory depression and low blood pressure occur at progressively higher concentrations.
:uhoh:
 
"If you are suggesting that this was a LEO party in the deceased's honor, I didn't get those facts from either of the two stories linked."

He was celebrating his 44th year on the job, which was Wednesday. He was shot minutes into Thursday. Some of the initial reports cited it as a celebration honoring both his time on with the force and the recent birth of a grand child. The reports have subsequently focused on official BPD statements.

Among them, the BPD stated that no currently serving sworn officers where there at the time of the shooting, though some retired ones may have been.

Much is being made of his being in a motorcycle gang. Much is being made that he was there with the gang, not with other cops. Given the desire of the press to sell the stroy and the desire of the BPD to insulate themsleves from events this is understandable. It should be noted, however, that the Chosen Sons MC is a cop and firefighter club.

That dove tails into helping to explain why things happened as they did. The deceased likely believed he would be identified as a good guy. He was not.

Of course it is also plausible that he didn't realize the uniformed cops where there and was looking to either break it up or participate. I'm less inclined to believe that he didn't notice the uniforms on scene activley breaking it up, but it is possible in the literal sense.

But those types of admissions usually don't make the press like they do the briefings and locker room talks.
 
"The deceased likely believed he would be identified as a good guy. He was not."

Touching on this, I know several cops who ride in outlawish looking motorcylce groups, something which has become more and more popular for the same reasons it has with the rest of society. They all have stories where they have been misidentified as outlaws, some at gunpoint. Something to be aware of; something the deceased having rode in such an outfit for so long was surely aware of. Which a few drinks might have placed further back in his mind that maybe it should have been.
 
"Like the police, none of the bikers could believe Stamp would pull a weapon on an officer. "That is stuff that he has preached to us. When a cop gives an order you should comply. We're just beside ourselves right now."

They said that the night began with an initiation. Stamp, as a founding member of the club, played a key role. The members, as part of a hazing, told a new guy he had been rejected and ordered him to leave the clubhouse.

But Stamp, 65, ran out after him, saying: "Get back here and tell those guys to [expletive] off," then tossed him a wadded-up jacket with the club's colors - or patch - emblazoned on the back, said Michael Privett, who became the newest member of the club.

The men celebrated at the club for a while. Some went home. Others walked two blocks to Haven Place, a strip club that bills itself as "a gentleman's tavern" with "go-go girls."

That is where the fight broke out."

- www.policemag.com/News/2008/04/24/Off-Duty-Baltimore-Cop-Killed-in-Fight-with-On-Duty-Officers.aspx
 
These were police and fireman they will come clean you would hope, mention if he owned some brass/plastic knuckles, plenty of wits I am sure.

Hope it is not to complicated or twisted. He went out fast, what a legend.

:uhoh:
 
He was celebrating his 44th year on the job, which was Wednesday. He was shot minutes into Thursday. Some of the initial reports cited it as a celebration honoring both his time on with the force and the recent birth of a grand child. The reports have subsequently focused on official BPD statements.

Gee, nothing says Grandparent's pride like stuffing a 10 spot in some community college student/single mother's thong!

Among them, the BPD stated that no currently serving sworn officers where there at the time of the shooting, though some retired ones may have been.

Much is being made of his being in a motorcycle gang. Much is being made that he was there with the gang, not with other cops. Given the desire of the press to sell the stroy and the desire of the BPD to insulate themsleves from events this is understandable. It should be noted, however, that the Chosen Sons MC is a cop and firefighter club.

His fellow cops and the owner of the club have said he's quick to fight. Sounds to me like he really played a double life that caught up with him.

That dove tails into helping to explain why things happened as they did. The deceased likely believed he would be identified as a good guy. He was not.

Looks like the cops on-scene pegged him for what he really was.
 
Looks like the cops on-scene pegged him for what he really was.

What he "really was", was a stand-up police officer with nearly a half-century of service under his belt. Being a biker doesn't change that, nor does his choice to watch attractive ladies (and I use that term extremely loosely, knowing the area of Baltimore that club is in) strut their stuff in a gentleman's club.

Bottom line, whatever happened that night ended in tragedy. Regardless of who was or wasn't at fault, let's try to show a little respect for the dead, huh?
 
Officer Wanna-Be 1%er?

In following the story about the death of Baltimore Officer NormStamp, I'm compelled to comment. Let me preface by offering my sincerest condolences to the Stamp family. It is profoundly tragic the loss they aresuffering.

That being said, most law enforcement entities seriously frown upon their officers having any affiliation or association with a club or organization with a less-than-credible reputation, or in this case, a want-to-be outlaw motorcycle club. How one could be in an official law enforcement capacity and also be a patchholder in a rogue motorcycle club is baffling tome. And there are other officer/members in this club. You can't be a police/fireman's MC and also act like outlaws.....

Seems Officer Stamp had mixed loyalties. It is said he wasn't afraid of a fight, which isn't exactly becoming of a long-standing police officer. Mixing the two worlds could only end up badly and it sure did. Why a veteran officer would draw his weapon before other officers, knowing that he would be fired upon, is beyond me. And last time I checked, brass knuckles were illegal, whether worn or brandished. Now the Chosen Sons are hailing and praising this man when, quite frankly, it is their behavior that precipitated the death of their "brother". And it is them who have to live with their part in this fiasco that ended in the loss of someone they claim a friend.

I have been a motorcyclist all my life and spent my share of time with various motorcycle groups and clubs. During my tenure in Baltimore from 1986 to 2000the Chosen Sons MC were always reputed as a bunch of thugs. Plain and simple. Always trying to be hardcore biker outlaws, but basically, just your average thugs, of which many members were frequently in trouble WITH the law. (must have been a real quandry with their fellow "cop" members!) They reigned out of a tiny little hole-in-the-wall" clubhouse" in Highlandtown which the rest of us steered clear of. Other riders, and other clubs, weren't keen on the Chosen Sons' members and if any Chosen Son bearing his "colors" showed up in a bar, most people would just leave. Not out of any kind of fear or intimidation, but merely out of nuisance. Inevitably, they would behave belligerently, pick fights with patrons, and just create an environment you didn't want to be around.

Lots of us bikers would frequent the Haven Lounge many nights and with the exception of the very occasional scrap between a couple guys, there wouldn't be an incident even remotely close to what happened last week. The owner, Charlie, wouldn't tolerate that kind of behavior in his establishment. I'm not the least bit surprised to learn that the Chosen Sons broke into a full-out brawl in this bar that night over some knuckle-dragging machismo mentality. It's pretty obvious mistakes were made by those participating in the fight, and by Norm himself. The officers, however, are not at fault. They carried out their duties as trained. You mix a bunch of so-called "outlaw"bikers, a strip joint, alcohol, and a huge dose of machismo, there's going to be a scene. You draw a weapon on police officers, they're going to draw theirs..and they're going to shoot. It's just too bad that Norm Stamp forgot the policeman in himself at that moment. Seems he's died for the Chosen Sons' sins.
 
Anymore information that has been published, to give us some more insight?

Thanks for posting this Winchester 73, Good stuff

Gary:)
 
Either way, he could easily have been a very good officer. All it takes sometimes is one mistake.
 
I've never been drunk enough not to notice a cop uniform.

Occam's razor? Occasionally, when you hear hoofbeats behind you,
there really is a zebra instead of a horse.

Biker
No, it was a bull. :D
 
Interesting that people were standing in line to apply for a job, at 01:00 AM.

It's hard to hear in the middle of a rioting crowd.

Many cops keep their badge clipped forward of their off-duty weapon. One wonders if this officer thought his badge was visible.
 
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