OK, I Need Help, What caliber is good?!!

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jr4521

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I need some help, I spent 8 years in the USMC infantry 1/5 and 8 years as a US customs agent, I have been in combat and fired 45acp which I love and know it works,9 MM which also works fine ,not as good as 45acp but haven't seen any bounce off people, "my own experience " . I have used the .223 and had much success,again not as much as when I used the 7.62. I know the 44 mag works on all things, well, 357 mag also good. Now, here is my issue ,I have read hours and hours of info ,reports,first hand accounts,on how the .357 Sig is not good ,the .40 is good but not good as the 45acp the .223 is crappy,and the 9MM is just about dismal as a round. I only know what I know from experience and have had major effectiveness with most of these awful rounds. Am I just lucky? has anyone used a .357 Sig and found its useless with only moderate penetration? I'm starting to feel like anything I have learned in the past has been wrong, am I out of touch .Can anyone help me see this differently? any help will work.
 
A few details would be nice, like what use you plan for it. And how do you define "good".

You talk about some pistol calibers and some rifle calibers. Each has purposes for which they are useful, and purposes for which they are not. Every caliber has a purpose for which it is useful, and purposes for which it isn't.

If you are looking for a single caliber that EVERYONE will agree is the best, you're just not going to find it.

For CCW any caliber from 9mm or above will have enough power to neutralize a human threat effectively. Some calibers may have too much power to control or give you a quick second-shot. Most everything else is personal preference.
 
If you worry less about the #'s and more about the shot placement, I think you'll be OK.

BTW, you said you've read hours of info...Why didn't you just start here; you can probably find all of the info you need on the first few pages.
 
Caliber isn't the usual problem, shot placement is. So I would say Shot placement. Shot placement. Shot placement.

Now that being said, if we could all shoot and hit exactly what we wanted, when we wanted it, we could probably get away with carrying a .22.

Since that is not the case, I shoot the biggest I can shoot well, I shoot what will penetrate and make bigger holes, and I shoot what I won't have to worry about over doing it, (i.e. .44 Mag).

That is the .45 ACP to me, but you will get every different opinion on this. Have fun.
 
all that you mention will do the job. Pick the one/ones you like most and then practice and you should be just fine. My personal HD pistol is a 45 ACP, my wife has the 357. The rifle I keep with a loaded mag is my AR but I have a AK next to it. point is, it is a mmatter of personal preferance. as long as you practice with whatever you pick
 
Nothing less than 105mm in HST will suffice.
Click to expand...

I agree, but if Federal starts making an incendiary HST, that would be better.

Kidding aside, if you're talking handgun, .40SW is good because you get more firepower than 9mm, and more magazine capacity than .45 - which is what it was meant to do - fill the gap between 9mm and .45ACP. All of my semi-auto handguns are chambered for it, I used to carry 9mm and while I certainly didn't feel under protected, I felt that I wanted a little more. .45ACP was my first thought, and I almost went with it. When I started reading about .40SW though, I felt like little Red Riding Hood eating the porridge that was just right.

As for rifle, I spent almost a year going back and forth between 7.62x39 and standard US 7.62 NATO/.308 Win and 5.56/.223.

I ultimately decided on 5.56/.223 even though there are a ton of complaints about it. I felt that many of the problems the military report were due to not being able to use HP ammo along with using 55 grain projectiles. I have a ton of Hornady 5.56 TAP and Hornady .223 TAP and don't feel under-prepared for

anything. Granted, I am waiting for that Keltec .308 Win Bulpup to come out as I am very interested in it, but for most things, .223/5.56 will be more than I'd ever need as it's powerful, and has great mag capacity. By switching to 75 grain HP ammo, I feel that I am plenty prepared for anything SD related.

So, my choices ended up being this:
For my semi-auto handguns - .40SW
For my BUGs - .38 Special +P/.357 mag
For my semi-auto rifles - 5.56/.223

maybe I'll be adding .308 Win soon, but it depends on what the price is on those Bulpups when they're available.

Of course, with anything gun related, it doesn't really matter what caliber you use. It matters how you use it.

Honestly, 9mm/.40SW/.357 Sig/.45ACP are all fine for SD semi-auto handguns. .38 special/.357 mag/.44 mag/.45 are fine for revolvers. 5.56(.223)/7.62x51/7.62x39/etc. etc. are all fine for rifles. You can't really go wrong unless you buy moldy cheese.
 
Maybe a 120 mm smoothbore would do. Comes in a variety of falvors: HE, HEAT, Sabot, WP, and many more.
 
I have a sig229 in .357sig and found it to be a great round. Like others have said though, any of the major calibers will work if shot placement is good, so get the one you shoot best.
 
The 357Sig fires a 125 grain bullet at 1425fps
The 9mm+P fires a 125 grain bullet at 1250fps

How can one claim that 357Sig is inferior to the 9mm?

I own pistols in quite a few calibers, including .45ACP, 9MM, .40, and 357Sig. They all shoot well, and I would (and do) feel comfortable with any of them.
 
It sounds like you want a semi-auto pistol. I personally am a fan of guns in 40 S&W. Many like the 9mm. Many like the 357 Sig. 1911's in 45ACP are classics and people love them. The point is that any of these are quite good calibers for self defense or general shooting. So, I personally would choose something "common" and begin your learning from actual use rather than just reading. If you change your mind down the road, it is not the end of the world.
 
I would take half of your actual experience over all of the opinions of 10,000 internet commandos. And I shot an IDPA match the other day with a DPS guy, he said they are issued 357 Sigs, and they are highly effective.
 
Of course, one thing, that is of utmost importance, is being able to hit the target. Shot placement is critical, a solid hit with a .22 LR is better than a miss with a much larger character.

I am personally fond of the 9 mm, since I started shooting that caliber because cheap surplus ammo was available for practice. Sadly, those days are gone. However, practice ammo for the 9 mm is still cheaper than any other serious defense cartridge.
 
I would take half of your actual experience over all of the opinions of 10,000 internet commandos.
Click to expand...
Agreed.If you have personal experiace with a particualr round/gun, and have seen it do the job first hand, I wouldnt second guess myself based on what other people, many of whom probly have no personal experiance in using the same round/gun against armed, human, adversaries, may say about it on gun forums. A lot of it is sheer speculation, or is based on paople having a favorite gun/round/manufacturer, so anything esle is automatically "crap". If you have seen 5.56, 9mm, and .45acp do the job, but some schmo on a gunboard says "5.56 and the M4/M16 is junk and wont stop someone", I would just laugh, ignore them, and go about my merry way, knowing that it isnt true as a whole (I'm sure some people have survived being shot with 9mm and 5.56, just like some have survived being shot with .45acp and 7.62 NATO, but exceptions are just that.)

As said, it's WAY more about hitting the right spot, which requires an accurate gun and practice, and that the individual gun that has proven it's reliability, and is suitable for the required task. A relaible, accurate Hi-point 9mm in the hands of a person who can hit where they aim, is WAY better than an HK .45acp in the hands of some HK fanboy blowhard that cant shoot worth a darn, inspite of how superior a weapon the HK is according to said fanboy.

Besides, HK thinks you suck, and they hate you. :neener:
 
Back off and nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Sigh.

Everything sucks.

Some stuff sucks statistically less.

That's why we learn to freakin' AIM, you imbeciles!

(the last was targeted solely at the folks who think that all they have to do is point their portable boomstick in the general direction of a goblin, and then scare it to death, or a reasonable facsimile thereof).
 
As you see folks continually pointing out, shot placement trumps caliber. By a huge amount. I've paraphrased this here before, but here it is anyway. I know a firearms instructor, that whenever there's an argument going on about how the 9mm is inadequate, he says something to the effect of -

"You go out five yards, and let me shoot you three times in the face. Then you tell me what caliber it was."

The only drawback I can think of in .357 Sig, is that there aren't as many options open to you in ammo selection and availability as there would be in a more common caliber like 9mm & .45 ACP.
 
It would appear to me that you are more qualified to make that decision than 99% of the people who post on the internet. Myself included. You will never get a everyone to agree. Read others opinions and experiences, balance that with your own experiences and make your decision.
 
"The only drawback I can think of in .357 Sig, is that there aren't as many options open to you in ammo selection and availability as there would be in a more common caliber like 9mm & .45 ACP. "
I don't own one and have never shot anyone. Given that you have seen the elephant you know more about using a handgun for personal defense than I do.
The drawback I see to .357 SIG is that it's expensive to shoot. As has been mentioned numerous times, shot placement is paramount. What can you afford to shoot enough to maintain your skills? As was also mentioned 9X19mm is cheaper than the other serious defensive calibers. I would love to carry a .357 SIG but can't afford to buy another gun or pay for the ammo. I can afford to shoot my 9mm now and then.
 
Ft.-lbs. of energy measured at the muzzle and at 25 yards for handgun calibers are a good indicator of stopping power. Check out some ballistics charts and you'll find that while there is a spread among the calibers you mentioned, the differences can be described as being between mule-kick, horse-kick and donkey-kick. One may hurt more than the others, but you'll still wish you hadn't been kicked. Same with these rounds. The large-and-slow vs. the small-and-fast debate will always go on, but energy always applies.

That's not the only factor, of course. Bullet shape and function play a large part. A FMJ round penetrates deeper but a JHP typically transfers more energy.
 
Sounds like you have first hand experience and, for some reason, questioning yourself based on what others are saying when they likely have no experience with the different calibers/rounds. I would trust what I know.
 
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