OK, I Need Help, What caliber is good?!!
- Thread starter jr4521
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LightningJoe
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I have a hard time imagining that any individual's personal experience would provide much data on which handgun caliber was better than another. This is partly because I've read the personal experiences of a very large number of people and can't find any data in the noise. I conclude that caliber rarely if ever matters and that when it does no handgun caliber is "enough." For an up close encounter with a criminal*, the size, appearance, and muzzle blast (on those rare occasions in which it is fired) of your gun may make the biggest contribution to stopping power. Hitting the BG probably matters occasionally. Inflicting serious injuries may help every once in a while, but injuries serious enough to prevent the BG from emptying his magazine appear to be rare and serendipitous.
Handguns have a long history of being very effective in stopping fights. I suspect caliber has almost nothing to do with this.
*battlefield experiences probably differ signficantly for many reasons
Handguns have a long history of being very effective in stopping fights. I suspect caliber has almost nothing to do with this.
*battlefield experiences probably differ signficantly for many reasons
Snapping Twig
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A .22LR can do the work. Shot placement is #1, bullet construction/type is important and velocity/weight are worthy of note.
I don't have your experience, so I can't offer any insight on 2 legged critter abatement.
I hunt, so I am of the camp that bigger, heavier bullets with large metplats are the source of happiness.
I have trained with the .45acp in a 1911, so you know what I'll suggest for SD. I'd go further to tell you to cast and reload so you can make a 230g TC which IMO could be used for close range hunting and serious SD work.
I figure if it will anchor a game animal, it should work for a BG, but like I said, I have no experience there and I thank God it is that way.
I don't have your experience, so I can't offer any insight on 2 legged critter abatement.
I hunt, so I am of the camp that bigger, heavier bullets with large metplats are the source of happiness.
I have trained with the .45acp in a 1911, so you know what I'll suggest for SD. I'd go further to tell you to cast and reload so you can make a 230g TC which IMO could be used for close range hunting and serious SD work.
I figure if it will anchor a game animal, it should work for a BG, but like I said, I have no experience there and I thank God it is that way.
I would think the "caliber that is good", is the one you can shoot effectively, and are willing to practice with. For me, right now, it is 9mm Luger: the ammunition is affordable, and the recoil is manageable. Someday, I wouldn't mind getting a .45, but for now, I am interested in accuracy, shot placement, and training, training, training.
jard
Member
.45 acp is great for everything, no need for anything else.
You can hunt moose and elk out to 700 yards, geese and ducks out to 1000 yards, I have several that group 1/4 moa at 1200 yards (without a bench)
My friend once used his .45 acp to knock a gravel truck off of a bridge from 400 yards away. They said that the gravel in that truck was just sand when the recovered it, from the impact.
9mm is crap. My girl friend got shot with 9mm from 3 feet away and it made it through the first layer of cotton on her tee shirt and ended up laying in her pocket (couldn't make it through the second layer)
She returned fire from her .45 and killed the guy and blast from the muzzle caught his house on fire.
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The truth is you are going to get a different story from each person you talk to. I kind of get tired of the debate, because really no hand gun cartridge is going to be that effective against humans.
I say get what you can shoot, and don't forget to look at ammo prices too. If you can shoot twice as often with a cheaper round, be sure to weigh that in your decision.
You can hunt moose and elk out to 700 yards, geese and ducks out to 1000 yards, I have several that group 1/4 moa at 1200 yards (without a bench)
My friend once used his .45 acp to knock a gravel truck off of a bridge from 400 yards away. They said that the gravel in that truck was just sand when the recovered it, from the impact.
9mm is crap. My girl friend got shot with 9mm from 3 feet away and it made it through the first layer of cotton on her tee shirt and ended up laying in her pocket (couldn't make it through the second layer)
She returned fire from her .45 and killed the guy and blast from the muzzle caught his house on fire.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
The truth is you are going to get a different story from each person you talk to. I kind of get tired of the debate, because really no hand gun cartridge is going to be that effective against humans.
I say get what you can shoot, and don't forget to look at ammo prices too. If you can shoot twice as often with a cheaper round, be sure to weigh that in your decision.
BattleChimp Potemkin
Member
Sort of all over the place man. Go with what you would want to use for whatever situation you are going to go into.
This is going to start into a caliber war really quick. Lots of folks are suckered into these discussions.
This is going to start into a caliber war really quick. Lots of folks are suckered into these discussions.
High Planes Drifter
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You had me going till here. Everyone knows the blast itslef would have leveled the house.
+1 on the serious advise tho. Buy what you shoot best with.
The truth is that if you have personally fired these rounds in combat/self defense to satisfactory effect then you know a lot more than all the cyber commandos that give advice on what the "best" gun/round is combined.
XD Fan
Member
Am I the only one that thinks the OP was saying his peace in a slightly tongue-in-cheek manner?
jr4521
Member
This all started from our agency in some departments switching to .357 sig,and there starts the debate.Most of us are combat vets who know a thing or 2 about our firearms past and present, we were given a choice of .40 or .357, 98% of us went with the Sig 226R Dak in .40 with a .357 barrel in our pocket. I was happy with my 9mm as were most of us. As like most of you guys we all wished and hoped for the .45 but no luck. Thank you for all your help and support, I will give an update in a couple of months on our switch to let you know how much we love or hate are new choices.
86thecat
Member
The waters become even muddier when different types of bullets enter into the mix. Much of the .223 and 9mm's lack of effectiveness is attributed to fmj ball ammo. A TSX, Partition or XTP may give a much different result.
This one nailed it for me. I happen not to like something about 40 S&W - don't know exactly what it is. If I had to rank the calibers I have shot in terms of how much I enjoyed them, it would be:
- 45 LC (Handloads 255gr SWC @ 850fps)
- 9mm (Commercail 124 gr Nato Load)
- 357 SIG
- 45 ACP
- 40 S&W
You may find you have preference for one caliber/platform combination over another.
Mike
SoCalShooter
Member
I just bought guns in all the calibers you talked about other than 357sig. Solved my questions. But it really depends on your usage. for personal defense, I will not use anything less than 45acp if I have the choice.
#1 9 times out of 10, the attacker seeing the victim is armed with ANY firearm, is going to turn tail and flee
#2 getting shot once by anything will often take the fight right out of the attacker, causing him to drop down, surrender, curl in a ball, scream and cry, whatever, be it a scratch or worse
#3 shot placement seems to ultimately be most important, a hit to the head or to the heart by even mediocre rounds is going to cause fight stopping damage.
That being said, there are some differences between the two rounds. Because we can't shoot prisoners to test ammo, and because of #2 and #3, it is hard to tell exactly how big the differences is. But take a look back at history, at one time people were carrying 32 short and 32 long pocket revolvers, 32 acp was a common chambering for european police forces to use. Now, I am sure that no 32 acps from Walther PPKs were bouncing off anyone's skin, but I also know that a 45 acp is going to do a lot more damage.
Also looking back at history, both military and civilian/lawenforcment you will see times when it has turned out that certain calibers were far from sufficeint, times when people took multiple 38 special rounds in the torso and kept on fighitng. Of course, for some of them, we'll never know if a 45acp would have ended the fight immediately or if he would have take 5 45acps rather than 6 38 specials to stop him.
But, lets say the difference is something on the order of 9mm has a 80% chance of a one shot stop, 40 SW has an 85% chance, and 45 acp has a 90% chance, all with quality hollowpoints and center mass hits. how much is that 5 or 10% increase worht when your life is on the line.
Also, I have never heard anyone say he 357 sig is BAD. The truth just happens that while it is supposed to dupliate 357 magnum ballistics, it tends to fall a bit shy of the true 357 magnum with lighter end bullets like 110 grain and 125 grain. Add to that the fact that hte 357 sig isn't anywhere close to the performance of a 357 magnum with heavier 140 or 158 grain or 180 grain hunting bullets, and that there is no 38 sig-special for cheap and light recoil practice, most people object to the claim that the 357 sig is 'as powerful as a 357 magnum, but you get twice as many shots!" most people will heartly agree that the 357 sig is better than a 9mm, although most people will also say that there is no reason to neck down the cartridge of a handgun, give em the biggest bullet the case can hold, so the 40SW will always be a little bit better than the 357 sig.
heck, I LOVE the 357 magnum, but if I could just wave a magic wand and make it shoot even bigger bullets with no increase in gun size or recoil or anything, you bet I'd do it.
#2 getting shot once by anything will often take the fight right out of the attacker, causing him to drop down, surrender, curl in a ball, scream and cry, whatever, be it a scratch or worse
#3 shot placement seems to ultimately be most important, a hit to the head or to the heart by even mediocre rounds is going to cause fight stopping damage.
That being said, there are some differences between the two rounds. Because we can't shoot prisoners to test ammo, and because of #2 and #3, it is hard to tell exactly how big the differences is. But take a look back at history, at one time people were carrying 32 short and 32 long pocket revolvers, 32 acp was a common chambering for european police forces to use. Now, I am sure that no 32 acps from Walther PPKs were bouncing off anyone's skin, but I also know that a 45 acp is going to do a lot more damage.
Also looking back at history, both military and civilian/lawenforcment you will see times when it has turned out that certain calibers were far from sufficeint, times when people took multiple 38 special rounds in the torso and kept on fighitng. Of course, for some of them, we'll never know if a 45acp would have ended the fight immediately or if he would have take 5 45acps rather than 6 38 specials to stop him.
But, lets say the difference is something on the order of 9mm has a 80% chance of a one shot stop, 40 SW has an 85% chance, and 45 acp has a 90% chance, all with quality hollowpoints and center mass hits. how much is that 5 or 10% increase worht when your life is on the line.
Also, I have never heard anyone say he 357 sig is BAD. The truth just happens that while it is supposed to dupliate 357 magnum ballistics, it tends to fall a bit shy of the true 357 magnum with lighter end bullets like 110 grain and 125 grain. Add to that the fact that hte 357 sig isn't anywhere close to the performance of a 357 magnum with heavier 140 or 158 grain or 180 grain hunting bullets, and that there is no 38 sig-special for cheap and light recoil practice, most people object to the claim that the 357 sig is 'as powerful as a 357 magnum, but you get twice as many shots!" most people will heartly agree that the 357 sig is better than a 9mm, although most people will also say that there is no reason to neck down the cartridge of a handgun, give em the biggest bullet the case can hold, so the 40SW will always be a little bit better than the 357 sig.
heck, I LOVE the 357 magnum, but if I could just wave a magic wand and make it shoot even bigger bullets with no increase in gun size or recoil or anything, you bet I'd do it.
The best round to use is the largest that you can comfortably shoot with.
If you can't hit squat with a 357 because of recoil, no matter how much "better" a round it is than a .380, the .380 will be better because you can hit your target.
If you can't hit squat with a 357 because of recoil, no matter how much "better" a round it is than a .380, the .380 will be better because you can hit your target.
rgs1975
Member
.22 Long Rifle is enough if you can put it in the right place. Shot placement is the key.
ROVERMAN
Member
Good Caliber???
Pick a good quality weapon that is RELIABLE in a caliber that is most common, fits your hand the best and you feel most comfortable with.
9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP. (Ammo is easier and cheaper to aquire for practice). Then practice, practice, practice shot placement and then should you feel the need get some professional instruction. This is not my quote, I read it somewhere else:"If you shoot me in the foot with a .44mag and I shoot you in the snot locker with a .22, I will limp away, you will die." Or to put it another way my CCH instructior said " The first one that gets shot generally looses!"
Best of luck in your decision.
Pick a good quality weapon that is RELIABLE in a caliber that is most common, fits your hand the best and you feel most comfortable with.
9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP. (Ammo is easier and cheaper to aquire for practice). Then practice, practice, practice shot placement and then should you feel the need get some professional instruction. This is not my quote, I read it somewhere else:"If you shoot me in the foot with a .44mag and I shoot you in the snot locker with a .22, I will limp away, you will die." Or to put it another way my CCH instructior said " The first one that gets shot generally looses!"
Best of luck in your decision.
jard
Member
America sure is getting fatter, so maybe we need something smaller and faster, for penetration of that extra layer.
If you "love" the .45, "know it works", and have experience with it---then why change to something else?
With the .357 SIG, you're looking at noticeably more recoil, muzzle rise, muzzle blast and muzzle flash. My advice is "Go with what you know"---which is the .45.
The decision you need to make is whether you prefer the 1911, or a high capacity weapon like the Springfield XD.
With the .357 SIG, you're looking at noticeably more recoil, muzzle rise, muzzle blast and muzzle flash. My advice is "Go with what you know"---which is the .45.
The decision you need to make is whether you prefer the 1911, or a high capacity weapon like the Springfield XD.
Spyvie
Member
jr5421 said:
Sounds to me like you should be tellin' us what caliber is good, most of us anyway...
CountGlockula
Member
.40s&w
I had a guy tell me he was shot 5 times with a 45 . I thought he was full of it, so he took off his shirt, sure enough, he had 5 entry and exit wounds. All in the torso, I am going back longer than I would like to, about 30 years. He was Colombian, and very proud of each one. It appeared to be "ball" ammo, of some type, I guess whatever they were shooting each other with down there back in the 70's but he was one lucky SOB. I thought he was exagerating, but he was telling the truth. With todays rounds that would probablly not be the case. But like a few guys said, it's all about where they land.He probablly got hit by a meteor after that, but who knows.
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