Old FN Hi Power

[X-Rap]

I have a FN Hi Power with a low 48,000 serial number. It has Belgian proof marks and is in very good condition aside from some scratches done by someone while removing/installing the slide.
My little research says numbers on occupation guns run from 50,000 on up but 40,000 on up prewar pistols both commercial and military had Tangent Sights and slotted for a stock as well.
Mine is not slotted and has fixed sights, anybody got some more info on this pistol?

 

[X-Rap]

A little more research has shown it to have been made post war early - mid 50's. Once I found a list of inspectors marks it was obviously not prewar. Still a nice piece but we always hope for that lucky buy.

 

[scythefwd]

My little research says numbers on occupation guns run from 50,000 on up but 40,000 on up prewar pistols both commercial and military had Tangent Sights and slotted for a stock as well.

Not 100% true. I have a possible prewar (most likely VERY early postwar, but it is possible that it's prewar) that has fixed sights and no slot for the buttstock.

Post a pic of your barrel lug. If the notch is squared, it was made in 1940 or later (first revision to the design, rouded before that). If it was made later, post a pic of the breech face. If it has a piece pressed and staked into place, it was made pre 1947 (second revision to the design). If not, it was made after. The very early post war hi powers didn't have the same fit and finish as the pre war ones, so depending on the fit and finish, you could possibly guess either way. Mine has a SN331xxand has been stated that it is most likely pre-war by several collectors.

Link to FN proof marks. These apply to ALL firearms manufactured, not just the HP.
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html


Quoting someone who believes mine is prewar, and his reasoning. I'll bold some interesting points that make yours easier to identify as prewar or post.

I sure ain’t no “espurt”, but…
Immediately post war, FN began producing their refined P35 pistols once again and they started their serial numbers all over again. The first post-war FN revision, dated 1947, involved how the breech face was machined/manufactured/hardened.
Pre-war, wartime, post occupation and immediately post war P35 slides were machined to accept and then fitted with a separate disk-like “slide stud” (FN Part #4)…the discernable circle I asked you about…press fit and staked…the 12 O’clock indent I asked you about…in place, into the center of the breech face. The center of the “slide stud” was drilled for the firing pin. This original design was as a result of the difficulties in properly hardening a breech face that was integral to the slide. The 1947 revision deleted the separate “slide stud” and instead, the breech face was machined flat, drilled for the firing pin and hardened in a different way that previously.Had your slide/breech face been machined to the 1947 revision, it would have been simple, and there would have been no doubt your pistol was post-war. BUT, even though your slide is pre-revision it does not absolutely…there’s very little absolutely when it comes to FN P35/BHP pistols…mean your pistol was completed pre-war, though the simple answer is often the best.

It’s theoretically possible your pistol was made with an obsolete, “old stock”, pre-revision slide taken from one of FNs famous parts baskets sometime either before or after the 1947 revision, who knows? I doubt any pre-war “old stock” slides survived the German occupation to build your pistol from post-war. German occupation machining was not up to the standard exhibited by your P35 so I doubt it would be an occupation slide. Immediate post-occupation manufacture used mostly available German wartime parts as well. That leaves a pistol made immediately post-war, before the 1947 revision, from new parts including the slide, or a pistol made post-revision from a pre-revision, obsolete, “old stock”, slide…or the simplest answer, an excellent example of a pre-war fixed sight P35 pistol...

As to what block a pre-war 33117 would have fallen into...FN is famous for having used various serial number blocks for various different customers from early on. These blocks were not in sequence, confounding collectors to no end. If you were the Grand Khan of Itchkrotchistan in 1937 and wanted 5,000 P35 pistols serial'd from 33117...because that was your lucky number, if you were willing to pay, you'd get 33117 through 38117...and the royal seal of your pathetic little country if you so specified. meaning serial numbers aren't a reliable way to date the manufactur of an early HP... my edit, not in the original post
I understand though, that the vast majority of pre-war P35s were Tangent Models, so a pre-war 33117 with fixed sights would not be common. There are only the basic period proof/inspection stamps visible in your pics, which leaves out the very late pre-war fixed sight Belgian Military contract pistols.
There will be other stamps in various locations, some “hidden”, which might help in better dating your pistol. You might find them on the underside of the barrel, the locking lug, the firing pin retaining plate, inside the slide, under the grips, on the butt, yada, yada, yada. Sorting them out can be work, especially since they weren’t always stamped such that they’re easy to decipher. A magnifying glass helps. Reference books like the out-of-print BHP Pistol by Stevens and the new FN Browning Pistols by Vanderlinden can really help, but magical serial number lists “just ain’t there”. You might hit a couple BHP specific places like Hi-Powers and Handguns and the, unfortunately all too frequently down, BHP Owners Forum, there’s a couple real live experts there…who in spite of their vast expertise, get stumped all too frequently. It’s the nature of trying to absolutely date pistols that defy dating absolutely, even by real live experts. Like I said, I ain’t no “espurt”, but at least you can be sure of the slide and the simplest explanation as to the period your pistol was likely made. Sorry I couldn’t give you more, hell I’m still working on deciphering some the hidden stamps on my 1939 Belgian Military Tangent…

Oh, BTW, the barrel lug configuration/dimensions you mentioned are the 1950 revision. The earlier pre-war revision involved squaring the original semi-circular lug cut. Two different revisions.
Best…

 

[X-Rap]

Along with the inspectors mark mine has the three sided box with the number 2 in it stamped on various locations on the gun as well as the magazine, my understanding is that the orientation of the box can pinpoint the manf. date quite well (within months) if you have the proper factory coding.

 

[hso]

Pictures are a big help.

The best pictures can be taken if you turn off the flash and set the timer so you can have the camera sitting on a tripod or steady surface and the area you want to photograph sitting still within a foot or two. Have all of this outside in indirect sunlight and just hit the button and step back while the camera takes the picture on auto. You should get a good crisp properly exposed image. If the camera has a macro setting (often a little tulip looking icon) you can carefully position it to focus on the one marking/feature and let it do it's thing. You may have to reset to timer/no flash each pic.

 

[scythefwd]

The 2 in the 3 sided box sounds like 1962 era if I remember my info correctly. They started using single digit dates after the war in a box. The side of the box that is missing tells you what quarter it was made in if I have read correctly. Mine is missing that marking. I literally only have the proof stamps and the inspectors stamp.

 

[gyvel]

Your pistol sounds like an example made for the West German police. I have an example not too far off your serial number with matching numbered holster made for the West Germans.