I've never fired HK-USP or Sig 220 or a Glock...just never liked feel in hand and never bought one..but have put quite a few rounds through just about every variation of a 1911 known to man....I find the 1911 a gfood, reliable platform and with work to be surprisingly accurate and user friendly...what is the attraction of the DAO polymer guns? Heavier, longer DAOtrigger pulls on most, except the Glock types...typically more blocky feeling in the hand...but have to have some really good points to be so popular..what are they? Why would a guy want to put down his good, tried and true 1911 and pick up a H&K or Sig or Glock? Not putting them down, just asking.
old vs new
- Thread starter gringolet
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I imagine most polymer shooters did not put down the 1911. Most seem to be of the Wondernine age or younger that had very little if any exposure to the 1911.
Now I'm not saying that of all the shooters, but probably the biggest majority of them.
Now I'm not saying that of all the shooters, but probably the biggest majority of them.
Vern Humphrey
Member
As Moses found when he went up on the mountain, the Devil causes people to abandon the true reilgion and worship false idols. 
10-Ring
Member
I am a relatively recent convert to the 1911...I have, at one time or another, owned or still own SIG's, Glocks & USP's. I think at some point or another, every shooter will evolve towards the 1911 and either get it or keep evolving
larry starling
Member
How true brother......
"The Holy Gospel According to John Moses Browning
I. In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was good.
II. John Moses Browning went up into the mountain, even unto the top of the mountain. And he received from the Lord the 1911, yea, and the design thereof, and rendered it into steel.
III. And the Lord saw that the 1911 was good, and blessed it, and said "Let it be made in .45ACP, that you may smite thine enemies a mighty blow, for the .45ACP shall cleave unto the 1911 as man shall cleave unto his wife, and likewise the 1911 shall cleave also unto the .45ACP, for this union is a holy one, from which thou shalt not stray.
IV. So the 1911 in .45ACP came to pass, and it was good, and the righteous therefore smote the minions of evil, as the Lord had intended.
V. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.
VI. And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.
VII. And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.
VIII. Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.
IX. And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
X. And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunction to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
XI. Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.
XII. And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.
XIII. And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.
XIV. But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continued to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.
XV. And when man had been totally ensnared with plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.
XVI. Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.
XVII. And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John."
I. In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was good.
II. John Moses Browning went up into the mountain, even unto the top of the mountain. And he received from the Lord the 1911, yea, and the design thereof, and rendered it into steel.
III. And the Lord saw that the 1911 was good, and blessed it, and said "Let it be made in .45ACP, that you may smite thine enemies a mighty blow, for the .45ACP shall cleave unto the 1911 as man shall cleave unto his wife, and likewise the 1911 shall cleave also unto the .45ACP, for this union is a holy one, from which thou shalt not stray.
IV. So the 1911 in .45ACP came to pass, and it was good, and the righteous therefore smote the minions of evil, as the Lord had intended.
V. And behold the Lord said, thou shalt not muck with my disciple John's design for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.
VI. And shouldst thou muck with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm.
VII. And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesman did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metal smiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.
VIII. Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.
IX. And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
X. And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunction to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
XI. Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.
XII. And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unamenable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.
XIII. And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.
XIV. But man being stupid did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot themselves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continued to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.
XV. And when man had been totally ensnared with plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.
XVI. Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the prophet had intended.
XVII. And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil sprits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John."
I am a 1911 guy, nothing else fits me as well and I shoot the 1911 platform very decently. I shoot them in competition, and keep them for home protection.
I also own and respect the Glock. It is reliable, shootable, and accurate enough for a service pistol. It has additional capacity with a similar/same power level.
Put a thousand rounds through a Glock. Then come back and tell everyone you don't respect it. Same for the Sig. I have to agree though on the USP, I have yet to shoot one I like even though on some the grip is better feeling than the Glock.
There is a very good reason that guns other than the 1911 are respected and well liked, that is they flat work.
I also own and respect the Glock. It is reliable, shootable, and accurate enough for a service pistol. It has additional capacity with a similar/same power level.
Put a thousand rounds through a Glock. Then come back and tell everyone you don't respect it. Same for the Sig. I have to agree though on the USP, I have yet to shoot one I like even though on some the grip is better feeling than the Glock.
There is a very good reason that guns other than the 1911 are respected and well liked, that is they flat work.
I don't have to put a 1000 rounds thru one to respect it. I respect all quality handguns on the market because if they didn't work they wouldn't stay on the market. There is a decided difference in being respected and being liked though.
pauli
Member
it's worth remembering that while john moses browning designed the 1911... he also went on to design the first wondernine.
Walt Sherrill
Member
I've had several 1911s, including a semi-custom model. I now have SIG GSR which is about as good as any I've had. I also have a BHP (made in the 60s), a superb Glock 34 (which is as accurate as any of the others I own), and some CZs and Sphinx that are superb guns.
I like the 1911, but I can shoot some of the others more accurately and more quickly. Different strokes for different folks.
I like the 1911, but I can shoot some of the others more accurately and more quickly. Different strokes for different folks.
Vern Humphrey
Member
Well, not exactly. He was working on A design when he died. The completed design was developed in Belgium, and is quite a bit changed from Browning's original design.
It's also worth remembering that Browning was a businessman, not a soldier, or a cop, or a gunfighter. He goal was to make money -- no one would claim his .25 ACP is much of a cartridge, nor the gun itself much of a weapon, but it did make money.
MrAcheson
Member
It should be noted that a big reason for the changes were Browning's colt-licensed 1911 patents lapsing. So in a weird way, Saive was able to make more of a Browning than even Browning could.
One, the polymer guns are a lot lighter than a steel government model for regular carry. That counts for something.
Two, it could also be argued that their reliability doesn't suffer the same way it can with sub 4" 1911s. The 1911 was not designed to be a pocket pistol.
Lastly, I have met more than one glock/sig/whatever shooter that basically turned his back on the 1911 after trying multiple models and manufacturers and never getting one that was reliable to his satisfaction. So they bought a glock/sig/whatever and it just worked. Frankly, it isn't common for 1911s to need a little more work and regular maintenance to be reliable that other guns don't need.
armoredman
Member
I like the 1911,(had a Springfield 1911A1), but don't like carrying an SA pistol. Just personal preferance. I shoot the Grock well enough to earn Distinguished Expert last time on the qualification with the Dept, but I wouldn't carry one, just doesn't fit me at all. This is why I carry a CZ....being both old and new, a design from the 70s, updated to 2001, the PO1, a perfect fit.
Ridge
Member
Good one Riley.
Thy Will be done!
Thy Will be done!
osteodoc08
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I hope there is no copyright on your work above, Riley, as it is copy, pasted, printed and framed in my office/gun room.
rockstar.esq
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Quote:
browning designed the 1911... he also went on to design the first wondernine.
Not true. The wondernine was coined when the S&W Model 59 appeared around 1985. Wondernines are characterized by double action and high capacity. The BHP has only the double stack. Close but no cigar.
Lame arguement, The infatuation with the nine millimeter and it's double stack magazine is what most folks associate with the wondernines. Attempting to base your arguement around the DA vs. SA is ignoring the more significant attributes of the host of guns riding under that banner. I had a guy tell me that the LDA system on the PARA 1911's isn't really a DA. His reasoning was that the DA trigger pull was too light! When I explained that LDA means "light double action" he muttered something about semantics. I have seen and handled SA/DA BHP's as well as DAO BHP's!
browning designed the 1911... he also went on to design the first wondernine.
Not true. The wondernine was coined when the S&W Model 59 appeared around 1985. Wondernines are characterized by double action and high capacity. The BHP has only the double stack. Close but no cigar.
Lame arguement, The infatuation with the nine millimeter and it's double stack magazine is what most folks associate with the wondernines. Attempting to base your arguement around the DA vs. SA is ignoring the more significant attributes of the host of guns riding under that banner. I had a guy tell me that the LDA system on the PARA 1911's isn't really a DA. His reasoning was that the DA trigger pull was too light! When I explained that LDA means "light double action" he muttered something about semantics. I have seen and handled SA/DA BHP's as well as DAO BHP's!
Rockstar,
The term Wondernine was indeed applied to the double stack, DA/SA 9mm semi-auto. The S&W Model 59 started it all in the US and when the CZ-75 came out it became the model that all others were judged by.
The other name for the Wondernine back then was "The CrunchenTicker" where the first shot required the "Crunch" of the long DA pull and the "Tick" when the sear was released on the subsequent SA shots.
Go back in history 30 years or so and see what was being said then.
The term Wondernine was indeed applied to the double stack, DA/SA 9mm semi-auto. The S&W Model 59 started it all in the US and when the CZ-75 came out it became the model that all others were judged by.
The other name for the Wondernine back then was "The CrunchenTicker" where the first shot required the "Crunch" of the long DA pull and the "Tick" when the sear was released on the subsequent SA shots.
Go back in history 30 years or so and see what was being said then.
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