On Not Re-chambering The Same Round Repeatedly...

[colorado_handgunner]

Those of you who carry revolvers are invited to make faces at us here.. like this one.

I would be one, but I also carry an auto sometimes. I tend to chamber the same round twice, then toss in a box for range time.


Obviously doesn't apply to the snubie.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

 

[coolluke01]

I've always planned on checking this out with my carry ammo.

I just ran a test where I measured the OAL of my 9mm Ranger T's. I then loaded and unloaded the same round 20 times. I checked the OAL periodically during the test at 1,4,7,10 and 20. The OAL of 1.119 never changed. I locked the caliper tight on the round on the first measurement and when I checked it was still tight.

Do you think some rounds have a tighter crimp to protect against this?

I was testing this in a Glock 26 Gen4. I tested it by both releasing the slide from slide lock and slingshotting it from closed slide.

 

[Dot_mdb]

I agree that revolvers can be more user friendly when it is necessary to clear the chamber often.

I live in Florida. I have carried both revolvers and semi-autos. After a gun spends a day in the holster it has to be wiped down. I have rusted stainless from sweat when I wasn't careful about daily maintenance.

This is what I do to avoid pulling the round out of the chamber. First of all I have a pistol with a mag safety. I drop the mag before I take the gun out of the holster. Then I engage the manual safety. Then I remove the gun from the holster.

I hold the gun with my left hand by the grip with the index finger around the grip so it can't go into the trigger guard. The gun is kept pointed in a safe direction. Then I carefully use a tooth brush with some oil on the bristles to go over the gun and then use a rag. I don't put my fingers in front of the muzzle.

When the job is finished I put the mag back in the gun and put the gun into a special holster that I use for overnight. The safety gets pushed off after the gun is back in the holster. The leather holster is left out to air dry in an air conditioned house and is ready for use the next day.

This routine is the reason I prefer a mag safety and a manual safety and is one of the reasons I carry S&W 3rd Generation semi-autos.

Bill

 

[Dot_mdb]

>>Do you think some rounds have a tighter crimp to protect against this?<<

Yes, I think that some rounds have bullets that are held tighter. I have seen some very loose bullets in 9mm Blazer aluminum case rounds. But I have seen set back with other brands in brass cases. It may be that some batches are tighter than others or just poor quality control.

Bill

 

[beatledog7]

When I unload a semi-auto that's had a round chambered, I put that round in a separate place until I get around to measuring it to determine if the bullet has set back. Even if it's good to go, I still keep it separate and will eventually chamber it manually and fire it.

I have about a half dozen .40s like that now in a little bowl on the top shelf at my bench.

 

[Steve C]

I have never heard of or read about a factory round doing damage to a handgun that was attributed to shorter OAL. I have personally shot many 9mm and .45 ACP factory and hand loads that have had the bullet set back. Never had any issues with these rounds or seen any high pressure signs in the expended case. IMO there really is no conditions where factory ammo becomes "dangerous" to shoot. There is a point where they can become unreliable in feeding. I've had that happen specifically to .45 gold dots where the bullet was deep enough that the case mouth was above the bullets curve and is similar to trying to chamber empty cases.

I have on occasion used a kinetic bullet puller to lengthen the OAL of set back rounds then reset the depth using the bullet seating die and crimped the bullet back in place using the Lee FC die. The results have always been a round who's bullet no longer set back when chambered.

Generally the only thing that is important is if the round feeds and functions. Usually I put the shortest round in the chamber as long as the rest will feed, the shortest round will go off and feed subsequent rounds.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

The same round gets ejected and rechambered everyday with my XD. No setback at all since I ride the slide to chamber that round. I don't have a carry permit but I still bring my pistol with me in my truck. Everytime it gets unchambered and Everyday I leave home so that single round (no rotation with me) has been chambered probably over one hundred times.

No setback at all since I ride the slide. It's a .40 S&W.

I do have a round of .40 S&W on my desk that is setback that happened after a handful of times because I used the slide release.

 

[Sport45]

I don't rechamber anything in my carry gun. I load a generic JHP in the chamber and then insert a mag full of the premium stuff. I don't figure that 10-15% difference in "one shot stop" stop effectiveness really matters when I'm prepared to shoot more than once anyway.

And yes, I have tried the combination at the range enough to know the generic round will reliably work to feed the premium round behind it.

 

[iLikeOldgunsIlikeNewGuns]

I practice with my carry ammo as regularly as I can afford to, but all in all I end up shooting a lot more FMJ 'range' ammo when I have myself a shootin' day. This leads to chambering and un-chambering the defense ammo from time to time. So all that being said, I used to deal with bullet-setback after chambering the same round more than a few times... Until I picked up an interesting tip either here or another forum.

I'm not sure why this works exactly, but for some reason it works for me. I honestly actually haven't had any bullet setback since I began this practice, and I compare and check rounds every time too: For defense-ammo that you may very well load and unload again many more times in your future, when chambering the first round, do so from an otherwise empty mag. As in the first/chambered round is the only round in that magazine. Then load the magazine, or swap empty mag for an already full mag. I'm guessing it has something to do with the amount of magazine-spring tension pushing upwards, but I honestly don't know exactly why this works. All I know is since I first started trying this I haven't had anymore bullet-setback in my defense ammo.

Give it a try and let me know if it doesn't work for you, I'm very curious.

My experience with what I just described has been used primarily on my S&W 1911, Armscor 1911 (both in .45acp), and S&W 5906 so far, for just shy of a year, so I can't testify as to how this will work for other semi-autos.

 

[Hangingrock]

The optional magazine disconnect feature that S&W employs on certain semiautomatic pistols as an example would to a degree reduce the set back rechambering problem. I simply remove the magazine storing it separately from the pistol leaving a round chambered. I fully realize that individual’s always bring up the nettlesome issue of the displaced magazine rendering the pistol inoperable. None the less it’s an option that may be utilized. Yes I realize all mechanical devices are subject to failure.

 

[mic_poo]

Setback is probably more of a risk with compact pistols with steep feed ramps.

I've only noticed it significantly with my PM45 using blazer aluminum case ammo.

I shoot my sig p239 almost weekly in IDPA, so I'm rechambering nickel cased SD rounds each week and only notice slight dinging up on the hollow point cavity. But I try to keep an eye on them and try to rotate them regularly.

 

[SSN Vet]

my commander has set back the top bullet after multiple rechamberings.

Tap tap in the impact bullet puller, to extend it back out, but not completely remove.... re-seat to correct COAL and hit it with the crimp die again.... problem solved

 

[WIKD]

I generally will leave the top round in for 2 to 3 chamberings then add it to the range ammo, but this is only if I stray from my usual carry weapon which stays chambered. And then when I take it out for practice I just fire off the round in the chamber and load a magazine of range ammo. There once was a time when I constantly chambered the same round in, time and time again. Thankfully reading this forum and others brought the this issue up and lead me to start doing things differently.

 

[SSN Vet]

I leave my handguns under lock and key in condition 1 when they're not on my hip.

I do not subscribe to clearing the chamber when I put them away, as I'm convinced that such unecessary gun handling provides additional opportunities for Murphey to bite me in the rear end with and AD.

But when I practice with them at the range, I unload my carry ammo. and then replace it when done. That's were I get the re-chambering and set back.

 

[Ryanxia]

I unload my carry mags to load them with target rounds when I go to the range so a lot of times it's a different round being chambered when I load them up again but I do chamber one of those rounds every time.

 

[Ehtereon11B]

This thread made my check my primary and backup carry semi-autos. Caliper and primer check against factory fresh in box ammo. No setback on my .40 carry rounds but did notice a .001 difference in my .380. Probably not enough for most people but enough for me to keep a closer eye on. Good advice.

 

[Manco]

Those of you who carry revolvers are invited to make faces at us here.. like this one.

It is possible for bullets to unseat due to recoil in a revolver, potentially jamming the cylinder. Not everybody has experienced this, but then again not everybody has seen bullet setback in an auto, either.

I've always planned on checking this out with my carry ammo.

That's a good idea, although keep in mind that setback could occur on the very next chambering. It probably won't be enough to cause a problem, as long as the cartridge measures correctly right before, but I just wanted to point out one aspect of the nature of the issue.

I just ran a test where I measured the OAL of my 9mm Ranger T's. I then loaded and unloaded the same round 20 times. I checked the OAL periodically during the test at 1,4,7,10 and 20. The OAL of 1.119 never changed. I locked the caliper tight on the round on the first measurement and when I checked it was still tight.

Do you think some rounds have a tighter crimp to protect against this?

Yes, Ranger bullets are very tight, and are glued in with asphaltum (tar) in addition. They'll take a lot of chamberings before setting back--an unknown number, but many. In contrast, Gold Dots set back relatively easily, sometimes noticeably after only several chamberings--they're great loads, but I wouldn't chamber them more than once.

I have never heard of or read about a factory round doing damage to a handgun that was attributed to shorter OAL. I have personally shot many 9mm and .45 ACP factory and hand loads that have had the bullet set back.

It's rare, but it happens, and it's avoidable. It's up to the individual to decide what levels of concern and caution (in terms of handling procedures) make them comfortable.

Never had any issues with these rounds or seen any high pressure signs in the expended case. IMO there really is no conditions where factory ammo becomes "dangerous" to shoot. There is a point where they can become unreliable in feeding. I've had that happen specifically to .45 gold dots where the bullet was deep enough that the case mouth was above the bullets curve and is similar to trying to chamber empty cases.

I wouldn't try this with .40 S&W (especially in a Glock) or 357 SIG....

 

[WardenWolf]

It depends on the round, and depends on the gun. Some rounds will pretty much never get setback, whereas some are notorious for it (like .40 S&W). Also, some guns chamber smoother than others, and will never cause setback. One example for both is the Tokarev; the military cartridges actually have 3 crimps at the neck which prevent bullet movement, and the gun also chambers unusually smoothly because of its tapered cartridge.

For me, I normally try to rotate the top 2 rounds in the magazine. I don't unchamber / rechamber that often, but when I do I normally reverse the top two rounds since that reduces the amount that any individual round gets rechambered. Invariably they get shot at the range before there's a problem.

 

[Manco]

It depends on the round, and depends on the gun. Some rounds will pretty much never get setback, whereas some are notorious for it (like .40 S&W).

.40 S&W--the cartridge type or "caliber"--is not particularly prone to setback per se. It depends on how a particular load is manufactured, in addition to the gun, as you pointed out. Calibers such as 9mm and .45 ACP are just as inherently prone to setback, although it really depends on the specific load. For example, a Gold Dot in 9mm or .45 ACP will set back a LOT more easily than a Ranger-T in .40 S&W.

The reason that .40 S&W is often singled out when the subject comes up is that it is particularly prone to catastrophic failures when bullets do get noticeably set back. This is primarily the result of its combination of relatively high pressure and small case volume in comparison to its powder load (and the space that the bullet occupies). And making things seem even worse than they should be, I suspect, is the fact that Glocks in this caliber (ubiquitous) do not have fully-supported chambers, which increases the probability of a case rupturing when the pressure is excessive.

 

[Sharps-shooter]

I carry a snubnose .357, and leave it loaded. Problem solved. Or at least avoided.

 

[Stevie-Ray]

I worry mostly about setback, because I go to gun shows, and here they make you unload and ty-rap. The chambered round goes back on top of the stack, but when I return to security, I pull it off and put it into the middle of the stack, until I get home to check for lengths of the entire mag. Other than gun shows, my EDC never gets unloaded except at the range, where the loaded ammo is first downrange.

 

[PapaG]

Mentioned this on another forum some time back....happened to me and my LCP but I caught the shortened round before it could be used. Boy, did I catch flak. "can't happen", " you're wrong" , and so on. Found THR and am happy to be here where people take the truth and appreciate it.

 

[Just One Shot]

I chamber a ball round then the rest are my SD HP ammo. When I notice setback on the ball round I remove it and replace it with another. I don't waste my SD ammo this way and it's cheaper on the wallet.