On "Timmy" and other new members

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"Timmy" was honest about his views and intentions from the beginning. He expected disagreement and argument from us, and accepted and welcomed the debate.

If he left because he felt "unwanted", it's probably because a LOT of people here got very, very LOW road with personal attacks and verbal abuse. He was treated shamefully. We have nothing to fear from civil, reasoned, logical debate.... but some people here, lacking the patience or capacity for reason and logic, resorted to common rudeness.

Flame away if you will, but some of you were disgustingly uncivil.
 
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Texan Scott said:
"Timmy" was honest about his views and intentions from the beginning. He expected disagreement and argument from us, and accepted and welcomed the debate.

If he left because he felt "unwanted", it's probably because a LOT of people here got very, very LOW road with personal attacks and verbal abuse. He was treated shamefully. We have nothing to fear from civil, reasoned, logical debate.... but some people here, lacking the patience or capacity for reason and logic, resorted to common rudeness.

Flame away if you will, but some of you were disgustingly uncivil.
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Anything uncivil was answered with direct posts from moderators.

I've been on every Timmy thread. He wasn't mistreated, he was wounded intellectually by our knowledgable members, and was met with the obvious resistance to gun control ideas one might expect from those on a firearms forum. Things didn't go his way.

Go figure.
 
Flame away if you will, but some of you behaved quite rudely.
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True. And some are no longer with us (temporarily or not) because of their actions in "welcoming" Timmy.

Folks, we take this stuff seriously. Act like an ass to someone who comes here openly looking for answers and/or to debate these issues and you'll find yourself un-welcomed.

There have been times when the Staff has looked at a new member's posts and decided as a group that the person is not debating in good faith, or is trying to be disruptive. Those folks are moved along without fanfare. In other instances we see folks who are clear in their motives and appear to be willing to engage in real discussion. We will help them and counsel our members to give them our BEST, not our worst.

If we cannot explain these issues to someone who asks, we fail. If we can only live in an echo chamber, sniffing our own fumes so to speak, we are USELESS to the RKBA fight.

Anyone who screams "TROLL" at these folks and refuses to answer their points with reason and logic is hiding his head in the sand pretending that if we don't talk to people they and their opinions and their votes don't exist. You can't convince someone of the rightness of our positions by INSULTING them. You can't convince someone of the truth by IGNORING them.

Now is the time for the hard work. If you can't support your rights by logical debate, LEARN HOW. If you don't have the self-possession and confidence to discuss contentious issues without anger and insult -- keep your mouth shut and let others do the hard work for you.
 
Uh, no ... some of the posters were not civil.

Repeatedly referring to someone as a troll and casting aspersions on his intellect and capacity for reasoning is NOT civil.

We have nothing to fear from civil and reasoned debate as our movement is just. But I agree with Texan Scott.

P.S: ["True dat?"] What, are we reduced to using middle-school slang to indicate agreement?
 
In the end, it was a fruitless interaction. The mods bent over backwards to accommodate Timmy and in the end, he criticized them. Go figure, but there are times where it is not worth the energy to engage with folks that don't really want to learn, they are instead here to try to "teach" us. Sorry, but we don't need anymore Timmy's. They are not here to hear what we have to say. Timmy demonstrated that quite well.
 
Timmy got frustrated and didn't accept EVERYTHING he was given. Ok, no surprise there. Timmy didn't understand what the Staff was trying to do to help out. Again, understandable.

Timmy DID seem to develop quite a lot and acknowledged that he'd changed his opinions on a few things in the few short days he was here. That's pretty big. It is a shame he couldn't stretch quite far ENOUGH to come into the fold, so to speak, but he's got a different perspective than when he showed up and that's good.

Sorry, but we don't need anymore Timmy's
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I disagree. Even all that's "won" is a chance to sharpen the claws on a sparring dummy, that's a net positive for us. If we aren't challenged, we're just on the "square range" so to speak "plinking" at tin cans. That's no practice at all for the battle out in the real world.
 
Old Dog said:
Uh, no ... some of the posters were not civil.

Repeatedly referring to someone as a troll and casting aspersions on his intellect and capacity for reasoning is NOT civil.

We have nothing to fear from civil and reasoned debate as our movement is just. But I agree with Texan Scott.

P.S: ["True dat?"] What, are we reduced to using middle-school slang to indicate agreement?
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Does my vernacular bother you? Or do you assume that those who do not speak as properly as yourself are less than educated?

The gentleman didn't stick around after posting anti gun threads and statements and being met with at least more appropriate argument than not. Where's he now? I don't like the word, but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...

P.S. You've now contradicted your post. Good job, sir.
 
Sam1911 said:
Timmy got frustrated and didn't accept EVERYTHING he was given. Ok, no surprise there. Timmy didn't understand what the Staff was trying to do to help out. Again, understandable.

Timmy DID seem to develop quite a lot and acknowledged that he'd changed his opinions on a few things in the few short days he was here. That's pretty big. It is a shame he couldn't stretch quite far ENOUGH to come into the fold, so to speak, but he's got a different perspective than when he showed up and that's good.

I disagree. Even all that's "won" is a chance to sharpen the claws on a sparring dummy, that's a net positive for us. If we aren't challenged, we're just on the "square range" so to speak "plinking" at tin cans. That's no practice at all for the battle out in the real world.
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So long as they'll stick around to give insight on the other side of things, learn what knowledge we have, and actually stick around.

I thought you guys did a good job keeping things fair. Not sure where he went or why...stuff happens. I learned some of what the other side THINKS.
 
we love timmys

I saw a timmy who came in here and appeared to be completely Anti2A, for AWB, for "high cap" mag ban, and Universal Checks. The last thread with him in it that I had the patience to read, he went 180 on AWB, waffled on "high cap", and was still on about universal checks. I call that progress. He was completely mis-informed and had a boatload of facts thrown at him that he could NOT refute. As far as I'm concerned, members who are Anti and want to debate here, only give me practice for debates with people in real life who's position I may truly influence. Bring 'em on!
As a side note: Has anybody ever "Trolled" an Anti2A site? Are discussions mostly emotional or is there actually some logic happening over there?
 
To me it's not a gun debate; it's a freedom debate........am I free or not? Are my Constitution rights really rights, or merely privileges up for grabs by a simple majority vote? When my right to self defense is gone how will the rest of my rights be guaranteed, for aren't my self defense rights guaranteed as we speak? It's about freedoms and guarantees, and until that is the focus of the debate the anti's will constantly push the emotional/moral aspects of this in order to bait us into nonproductive circular arguments. It's up to us to be understanding, and tolerant of their uninformed dogmatic assertions while at the same time being firm, vigilant, and unrelenting in our determination to educate those seemingly hellbent on destroying the remaining vestiges of the Republic. It's a big omelet and a lot of eggs will be broken, but let's try not to throw them on purpose.
 
hso said:
...Every word we post is on behalf of the 2A and RKBA and helps people who've only seen/heard/read the propaganda by the Antis understand they've been lied to and manipulated. Don't forget that when you're frustrated and angry and about to hit "SEND" that you are either going to help or hurt our cause with the words you post.
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Read this and read it again. Then, read it again.

This should be the new meta description for the "General Gun..." forum.
 
MMM, I deleted that post because I decided it wasn't productive to pick on you, and I don't want to make anyone feel unwelcome simply because of their background. But we do ask folks to elevate their speech in some ways (for example, to drop the profanity and vulgarity at the door) and we sure do appreciate those that do the best they are able with the language.

I do apologize if I've offended. We'd rather have you HERE participating than avoiding the place because you're worried about its/it's and your/you're/yore.
 
Sam1911 said:
MMM, I deleted that post because I decided it wasn't productive to pick on you, and I don't want to make anyone feel unwelcome simply because of their background. But we do ask folks to elevate their speech in some ways (for example, to drop the profanity and vulgarity at the door) and we sure do appreciate those that do the best they are able with the language.

I do apologize if I've offended. We'd rather have you HERE participating than avoiding the place because you're worried about its/it's and your/you're/yore.
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Non received. I apologize if I've given the impression that I may be a mindless thug.

I do however have children, try to be "hip", but speak fluent English and have an idea of its usage.

I like being here with you guys, and I agree that we need more Timmy's. leave the "troll" talk at home when you log on.
 
Cognitive infiltrators are not a new thing, but In Timmy I saw a someone open to genuine debate. He did frustrate me by not staying on topic and that is to be expected by the uninformed. I am sorry he is gone we, as a group got some good debating training
 
I was involved in Timmy's threads. I found him to be forthright and eager to learn "our side".

I thought Timmy could have been a journalist or someone who worked in government who wanted to see how "the other side" thought and operated. I would not be surprised if he came here to find radical yahoos who he could refer to in an article, news clip or a report to a govenment agency.

We show them gunowners are reasonable people that are aware of the facts and dedicated to the freedoms guaranteed to all people by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and that we are not ignorant, knuckle dragging, immature thugs with anger control problems that everyone should not trust with a firearm that the Antis paint us as being.
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This^^

I bet Timmy left seeing that we are organized and strong willed. There were some who bashed him and/or doubted his intentions and came across as neanderthals but for the most part he saw we were not what the antis portray us as being. The mods here did a good job of keeping the radicals in line and Timmy was allowed the floor whenever he wished. He saw what he needed and if he is reporting to someone higher his report should show the resolve we have and that our community is a lot more than a bunch of radical red necks. I bet he was surprised at what makes up the "gun community".

I feel we held our own and if he was a "spy" then he knows the fight will not be easy. We will not give up or give in. If he was a total anti when he got here he should have left sharing most of our ideals. I asked him directly, and he answered, that if 30 rounds is too many, what is the right amount? He answered that 30 sounds like too much and 10 sounds like too little but he could not come up with a reasonable answer on any magazine limit. He even admitted as much. So, if he has a voice in his community we may have picked up an ally. If he is just another confused American we still changed some of his biased (from the media) views. I'd say we won this round.
 
Timmy is gone, hopefully not to return, and yet, we still speak of him. Please spare me the eulogy....
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Always good not to be challenged, right? Nice to be surrounded only by those who agree with you.

Comforting.

But it doesn't help us at all to spend every day preaching to the choir.
 
"Timmy is gone, hopefully not to return, and yet, we still speak of him. Please spare me the eulogy...."

If you don't like what you see, you can always change the channel, you know.
 
The one way NOT to gain friends for our side is by bashing people like timmy until they feel unwelcome. Just a reflection.
 
As far as I'm concerned, members who are Anti and want to debate here, only give me practice for debates with people in real life who's position I may truly influence. Bring 'em on!
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:cool:

That's the attitude we should all have.

Even the folks that don't feel they can wade in and do well in the debate can learn from the watching the action and be better prepared to deal with the misinformed in their lives.
 
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People who disagree are the ones who need to speak with each other the most, as they have the most to talk about.

If anyone's interested in living in an echo chamber where your own ideas are parroted back to you exactly the way you expressed them, then I suggest speaking into a mirror or watching back a video of yourself speaking on youtube.

I agree with the sentiment that if we are not able to have a calm, rational, thoughtful debate with someone who does not agree with us, then we don't have quite the conviction that we might believe we do.

We should welcome those like Timmy to THR and enjoy having those conversations.
 
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