beatledog7
Member
I enjoyed timmy4, but did anyone else get the sense that he may have been a committee of sorts rather than just one person?
On "Timmy" and other new members
- Thread starter HankR
- Start date
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One problem with THR treatment of "Timmys" is that everyone wants to be part of the action. In spite of attempts at reasoned discourse on both sides, the participation is perhaps analogous to a feeding frenzy.
What to do? My suggestion is to exercise restraint, such that posting is limited to a few Mods. IMO, I am confident that most Mods can speak for the majority at THR regarding Timmy and that in so doing, the odds are improved that Timmy will hang around longer which favors a better outcome.
Of course, if we must all pile on, then so be it.
What to do? My suggestion is to exercise restraint, such that posting is limited to a few Mods. IMO, I am confident that most Mods can speak for the majority at THR regarding Timmy and that in so doing, the odds are improved that Timmy will hang around longer which favors a better outcome.
Of course, if we must all pile on, then so be it.
barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
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- 7,340
Maybe I'm just naiive, but does anyone really do this? I mean, we all know anti's are not above bold-faced lies about just about anything to promote their cause, so camping out here, and writing what has to be a short novel over several days (Timmy had about 200 posts after less than a week) seems an incredibly silly way to build bogus support as a double-agent.
More likely, and more than likely unintentionally, Timmy was trolling (i.e. roping us into a protracted but pointless discussion instead of contacting our reps like we're supposed to be doing!). Simple as that. Whether he was real, or the Anti's covert-sleeper-cell-cyborg-ninja-assassin-psy-ops guy, it was a legitimate discussion, he raised the same points we've heard, and his weakest opinions were turned. Admittedly, the remaining disagreements he had were over the items we have the weakest arguments against; registration and universal background checks. We have arguments against these, but they are not as intuitively self-evident as "mag bans don't accomplish a damned thing"
We should learn from the experience (since it's rare we actually have an honest debate with an opposing viewpoint on anything but bear guns around here). Timmy relented on our most irrefutable arguments, but our more theoretical/philosophical argurments about the role of government, the people, and their mutual responsibilities for upholding law and self-defense simply did not register--he was not like minded. Obviously, our arguments need to be developed in these areas so our opinions will not be questionable the next time someone proposes the government "do something," and we say "it's okay if we do nothing."
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beatledog7
Member
Way too much gov't "action" is window dressing designed to assuage the masses. Let's remember: making a conscious, rational decision to do nothing IS doing something.
meanmrmustard
Member
I'll agree. I liked the guy, for an anti. Name calling is childish, and he never gave us grief.
Even if he was trolling, it never read like trolling. And that matters.
meanmrmustard
Member
Come on buddy, sometimes the best battle is showing the enemy how we sharpen our swords.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
And yet, by his own admission he went away convinced of several points important to us.
I'm having trouble seeing the great threat or harm here...
clutch
Contributing Member
I'm working my way though the thread and it is close to bed time for me. Universal registration is what they want. The rest is a distraction.
"Discussing why the 1994 act only prohibited the manufacture or import of assault weapons, instead of the possession and sale of them, Feinstein said on CBS-TV's 60 Minutes, February 5, 1995, "If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."[26]" From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Dianne_Feinstein
Airbrush Artist
member
I'm not a phony,I just want to learn and be with Like Believers but a lotta guys on Here make ya feel that way..just sayin...
Well at least he did confirm what most of us already knew....the gun grabber are scared. They may say...why are we so scared that we need to have our guns, but he proved that he was so scared that he thought there was a need to take them away. He also proved that the gun grabbers don't really know what they are talking about, and don't at all understand the second amendment. I guess he was willing to learn though...more than our legislators are willing to do.
r1derbike
Member
I admit I was drawn into the Timmy experience, fascinated with his penned beliefs, and somewhat dismayed that he kept to those beliefs, when valid arguments to the contrary kept backing him into a corner.
He finally changed his tune on a few of them, after a protracted schoolroom lesson.
The sharks had their usual meal of chum, and wasted no time dispatching his views as quickly as Dan Akroyd did when he made those tasty bass-o-matic drinks, by dropping fish into a blender.
I knew he was going to get beaten-up a bit, and he seemed to have a thick skin with most of it, and actually admired him for coming back into the ring time and again.
Anyway, maybe there will be other Timmys to take his place, and yeah, we all should play nicer, even though our present administration is using us as whipping boys for a false cause, politicizing lies for a disarmament agenda.
He finally changed his tune on a few of them, after a protracted schoolroom lesson.
The sharks had their usual meal of chum, and wasted no time dispatching his views as quickly as Dan Akroyd did when he made those tasty bass-o-matic drinks, by dropping fish into a blender.
I knew he was going to get beaten-up a bit, and he seemed to have a thick skin with most of it, and actually admired him for coming back into the ring time and again.
Anyway, maybe there will be other Timmys to take his place, and yeah, we all should play nicer, even though our present administration is using us as whipping boys for a false cause, politicizing lies for a disarmament agenda.
351 WINCHESTER
Member
This is the high road. We should welcome people who differ in opinion. I believe it's called Freedom of Speach.
Wrong
Anyone that actually participated or read the threads saw his perspective change on critical points. Given time we might have changed the attitude on magazines. I'm skeptical on any of our ability to change the attitude show about universal background checks or registration. Still, achieving a conversion on the major points allows a greater focus on changing those final ones.
The ability to present arguments, debate them, tune the argument and then restate and see an effect is vitally important to our side of things. We need as many people as possible to learn how to present the facts countering Anti arguments in the most effective package and win converts by appearing calm and confident.
nazshooter
Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2011
- Messages
- 123
I'm with barnbwt. I've been on the net since at least the early 90s, have seen hundreds of trolls, and Timmy didn't strike me as one of them. FWIW I've done similar things going on to certain liberal boards in order to get a better explanation of their reasoning on certain issues. Sometimes there's just no substitute for going right to the horses mouth.
The kinds of trolls we should be on the lookout for are those who try to incite over the top comments that could be used to make us look dangerous, racist etc.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
The kinds of trolls we should be on the lookout for are those who try to incite over the top comments that could be used to make us look dangerous, racist etc.
Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
I think more Timmy's are a good thing.
I'm pretty new here. I thought he seemed very sincere, and agree with the concept that just because he disagreed doesn't mean he was coming to cause trouble. A big piece of the country doesn't see things the way they are seen here and that doesn't mean they are all wrong. Somewhere is the common denominator that we will find with truth and time.
I would suggest that there may have been more than a single person, Timmy4, with a few brain stretches. We can all learn something from other reasonable people.
Look forward to participating.
Matt
I'm pretty new here. I thought he seemed very sincere, and agree with the concept that just because he disagreed doesn't mean he was coming to cause trouble. A big piece of the country doesn't see things the way they are seen here and that doesn't mean they are all wrong. Somewhere is the common denominator that we will find with truth and time.
I would suggest that there may have been more than a single person, Timmy4, with a few brain stretches. We can all learn something from other reasonable people.
Look forward to participating.
Matt
That may have been true on a few issues, but many, he simply ignored and refused to address. Others he dismissed out of hand. Having been considered the troll on other sites, one a dialysis site that had off topic issues and politics, it grows old dealing with many of their antics. Lastly, his parting shot was to criticize the moderators!! Give me a break, I have never seen such handling of anyone else on THR EVER and he leaves complaining about that. Go figure, sour grapes in the end no matter what sort of progress he claimed. In the end, the people trying desperately to make him welcome became the target of his anger. Sorry, I see it a bit differently.
Timmy might have been one of us using another name to provide some arguing points. If we are going to be articulate in getting our pro-RKBA agenda across to those who are sitting on the fence, we need to be able to reason with the undecided and address their concerns. Taking a few of them to the range doesn't hurt either. If the give and take of discussing these issues w/ Timmy helps us, then great. It doesn't really help for us to just talk w/ each other, because we are a pretty homogeneous group, and we really need better discussion points than just "shall not be infringed."
Tinpig
Member
I read most of the "Timmy" threads.
I was impressed by his willingness to listen and by his guts in continuing to engage calmly in the face of overwhelming beat-downs.
I also thought that most people who responded to "Timmy" did so politely and with a genuine desire to educate. Given the current situation it was remarkably High Road and unlike anything you would see at just about any other internet gun board.
I take my hat off to THR and to the mods.
Tinpig
I was impressed by his willingness to listen and by his guts in continuing to engage calmly in the face of overwhelming beat-downs.
I also thought that most people who responded to "Timmy" did so politely and with a genuine desire to educate. Given the current situation it was remarkably High Road and unlike anything you would see at just about any other internet gun board.
I take my hat off to THR and to the mods.
Tinpig
+1, they bent over backwards for Timmy, and in the end he dissed them in his final comments. Talk about ingratitude. I have never seen the mods let such a discussion go on for I believe 22 pages. Most such discussions reach a tipping point after 10 or less pages for most mods.
In any case, I hope he did get something out of the discussion, but he did not address many of the issues directly.
Regardless of how well he articulated himself he ignored or refused to address several questions that were legitimate and logical rebuffs.
The cherry picking lead me to believe that he was doing what anti gun spokesmen like Piers Morgan do and simply refusing to respond to anything that disproved his position.
The cherry picking lead me to believe that he was doing what anti gun spokesmen like Piers Morgan do and simply refusing to respond to anything that disproved his position.
Don’t enter the lion’s den when it’s feeding time. 
I never participated in the Timmy debate since I felt there were enough comments for him to consider. Unfortunately, he arrived at THR’s doorstep at a time when passion is running high. So it’s understandable, albeit inexcusable, if Timmy is attacked.
You never strengthen your character by only commiserating with people of like views. A foreign view in an enemy’s camp can enrich your mind; but only if you try hard to keep your mind open. The question becomes, how much energy are you willing to commit? Only you can decide. At some point you choose to leave the arena.
That goes for both sides. Timmy has left the building.
I never participated in the Timmy debate since I felt there were enough comments for him to consider. Unfortunately, he arrived at THR’s doorstep at a time when passion is running high. So it’s understandable, albeit inexcusable, if Timmy is attacked.
You never strengthen your character by only commiserating with people of like views. A foreign view in an enemy’s camp can enrich your mind; but only if you try hard to keep your mind open. The question becomes, how much energy are you willing to commit? Only you can decide. At some point you choose to leave the arena.
That goes for both sides. Timmy has left the building.
76shuvlinoff
Member
Then my freedom of speech should not have offended anyone when I expressed my doubts as to his motives.
At first I took "The High Road" and looked for the best but as time went on it became apparent (to me and a few others) Timmy4 was not as he presented himself. Paint me among those who think his responses were coached and "by committee". Since I will not tolerate those I believe are liars I will leave it at that.
Just my opinion.
barnbwt
member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2011
- Messages
- 7,340
And honestly, we failed to allay several of his most emotionally-driven fears and turn him to our side. He lost ground on a number of issues, conceded on others, and ultimately became defensive when be began attacking his world view (the Police are our Protectors). It's completely understandable he no longer felt comfortable here; we were treating him like the Emperor with no clothes. In the future (hopefully others so inclined will feel like chiming in again) we need to be much more sensitve to challenging a person's core emotional leanings.
It's not fun to feel vulnerable and unprotected for the first time in your life--even if you've been naked in the breeze all along. Existential crisis is not an enjoyable experience, however enriching it may be.
Wikipedia said:
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