Open Carry owner robbed of his own gun

[Robert]

I am trying my hardest to leave this open for thoughtful, intelligent discussion but some members seem hell bent on getting this thread closed. There is absolutely nothing funny about being disarmed while legaly carrying a firearm. This is a final warning, this thread is not about OC vs CC. Failure to listen from this point on means this thread will be locked.

 

[Onmilo]

Being disarmed isn't funny and it can cost you your life.
If you are going to open carry you better be darn well instructed how that decision will affect EVERY stranger around you and what you MUST do to protect yourself and keep that weapon from falling into undesirable hands.

That said, I have always felt that openly carrying in a public environment is a form of brandishing and signifies a person who is spoiling for a fight. JMHO

 

[Warp]

Being disarmed isn't funny and it can cost you your life.
If you are going to open carry you better be darn well instructed how that decision will affect EVERY stranger around you and what you MUST do to protect yourself and keep that weapon from falling into undesirable hands.

That said, I have always felt that openly carrying in a public environment is a form of brandishing and signifies a person who is spoiling for a fight. JMHO

How many private citizens openly carrying a holstered handgun have been involved in a fight?

How many private citizens openly carrying a holstered handgun have you seen?

What I am asking is...can you cite anything as a basis for your opinion? Or is it out of thin air?

 

[ridgerunner1965]

ther really is no reason to debate open or concealed carry. it really does not matter.

if sumone shoves a gun in your face before yu have time to draw. you mite as well be unarmed. its that simple.

yeah maybe you could knock his gun away and draw yours.about 1 in 10 of people here wud do that. and about 60% of those people would end up alive.

its just the way it is

 

[Onmilo]

Warp,
What part of JMHO do you need spelled out?
JMHO= Just My Humble Opinion and I am entitled to it based on your response...

 

[Warp]

Warp,
What part of JMHO do you need spelled out?
JMHO= Just My Humble Opinion and I am entitled to it based on your response...

I think it is reasonable to ask if you have a basis for your opinion. Opinions that are not based on anything at all might be taken different than opinions based on articuable facts or actual experience.

For example, part of the basis for my opinion is that I've been carrying both open and concealed for 9 years now so I have a good deal of first hand experience. I also know a lot of people who carry and have been carrying for awhile, and I am very aware of carry related incidents that are reported and make any kind of news or forum-rounds whatsoever.

I know of nothing that indicates open carriers are looking for a fight, in fact, quite the opposite.

 

[SSGT PRIDE]

Last week we had a guy up in Lexington Ky have his CCW weapon taken from him after a pair came up behind and pulled guns on him before he could react! Happens more than you think!

Pride

 

[Warp]

Last week we had a guy up in Lexington Ky have his CCW weapon taken from him after a pair came up behind and pulled guns on him before he could react! Happens more than you think!

Pride

Do you have or can you find a link or citation of some kind to that?

 

[Onmilo]

Well Warp.
From living in a rural area and carrying firearms both openly and concealed for a quarter of a century and having to deal with people that trespass, hunt illegally, steal stuff from unlocked/unguarded out buildings, steal items/chemicals used in the production of illegal drugs, etc. that the responses from those lawbreakers vary dramatically when confronted.

I have learned that when they are confronted by a person who is openly armed they become more agitated and aggressive and when confronted while the weapon is concealed they tend to act more passive, apologizing, claiming to be lost, hoping there was a landline phone in the building, etc.

My opinion is based on several personal confrontations, many involving more than one individual.
The only times I have ever felt the confrontation might end with me shooting someone were when I was armed with a rifle or shotgun, openly displayed.
On the instances I was carrying a concealed handgun and the law breakers thought they were dealing with just an irritated land owner, the response has always been apologetic with the offer to exit stage left with great haste which I have allowed after getting the personal information they would submit or I would gain through observation.

The encounters in which I was openly armed have always ended with the bad guys proned out and me waiting for the Sheriff's Department to show up and take them away.

I have dropped charges on all but two groups and they were in the process of stealing items used for the production of crystal methamphetamine, a growing hobby around these parts.

Now that I have enlightened you on the basis of my opinion, I still hope you understand why your responses continue to enforce it.
Have a wonderful day.

 

[Warp]

Well Warp.
From living in a rural area and carrying firearms both openly and concealed for a quarter of a century and having to deal with people that trespass, hunt illegally, steal stuff from unlocked/unguarded out buildings, steal items/chemicals used in the production of illegal drugs, etc. that the responses from those lawbreakers vary dramatically when confronted.

I have learned that when they are confronted by a person who is openly armed they become more agitated and aggressive and when confronted while the weapon is concealed they tend to act more passive, apologizing, claiming to be lost, hoping there was a landline phone in the building, etc.

My opinion is based on several personal confrontations, many involving more than one individual.
The only times I have ever felt the confrontation might end with me shooting someone were when I was armed with a rifle or shotgun, openly displayed.
On the instances I was carrying a concealed handgun and the law breakers thought they were dealing with just an irritated land owner, the response has always been apologetic with the offer to exit stage left with great haste which I have allowed after getting the personal information they would submit or I would gain through observation.

The encounters in which I was openly armed have always ended with the bad guys proned out and me waiting for the Sheriff's Department to show up and take them away.

I have dropped charges on all but two groups and they were in the process of stealing items used for the production of crystal methamphetamine, a growing hobby around these parts.

Now that I have enlightened you on the basis of my opinion, I still hope you understand why your responses continue to enforce it.
Have a wonderful day.

I thought the first thing you said was that, in your opinion, people who carried openly were 'spoiling for a fight'...but here you are saying that when you carry openly and confront a criminal, the criminal acts more aggressively.

If your humble opinion is based on your experience, wouldn't that be saying that when you are carrying openly and you confront the criminals, you are looking for a fight, but when you are carrying concealed, you are not?

 

[Hypnogator]

If your humble opinion is based on your experience, wouldn't that be saying that when you are carrying openly and you confront the criminals, you are looking for a fight, but when you are carrying concealed, you are not?

Not necessarily. Psychological studies have shown that people tend to act more aggressively in the presence of a weapon. I think that Onmilo's experience is consistent with those studies.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Posts....

There seems to be a lot of hyper-bole & misinformation in some of these messages.
I have a valid CCW and I've carried handguns concealed.
I also open carried both on duty(armed security work) & on my own(2A friendly areas with legal open carry).
1) I don't carry a firearm to start trouble.
If anything weapons are meant to resolve or de-escalate conflicts.
I've packed loaded weapons for several years & never had a critical incident or a weapon snatch(robbery). This belief that "weapons make people violent" is nonsense.
I carry weapons on duty or when legally allowed to do so because some people are violent. What you wear or how you act(behave) will have no bearing on how violent they are.
2) Sworn LE officers and security personnel wear uniforms & weapons all the time. Using the logic of some forum members they'll be jumped or assaulted left & right.
Real life is not like a Hollywood cop show or action movie. I used open carry in a small college town in PA. I had a M&P .45acp in a SERPA(crossdraw).
I was not fighting off ninjas or in any gun battles. In fact, no one even remarked on my pistol except my companions who already knew I had the M&P.
3) Guns do get stolen & people are assaulted. Even sworn, trained LE officers and agents get robbed or beaten. The point of carrying a firearm is to be alert & act in a mature, responsible way. If you avoid trouble then you've already gone a long way. There's a old saying that nothing good happens after 1000pm.

 

[Warp]

Not necessarily. Psychological studies have shown that people tend to act more aggressively in the presence of a weapon. I think that Onmilo's experience is consistent with those studies.

Link to these studies?

Onmilo's first claim was that the person lawfully open carrying was looking for a fight. His follow up was that, in his experience, when HE open carries, criminals react more defensively/aggressively. Those are two completely different things.

 

[BIGGBAY90]

cc or oc makes no differents, a criminal has one objective...to mug you, so either way cc/oc he is going to approach you in a manner which you are off guard and he is ready to do harm if you resist

 

[scaatylobo]

Happy ,but

I am happy the OC guy was not harmed.

VERY happy to say "I told y'all so".

Open carry is an INVITATION to anyone with a gun,knife,bat etc to get a gun !.

I am sure that all who OC are really bad a$$es ,but I just have not met them yet.

ALL those that carry can be disarmed,IF [ the word makes the point = IF ] your being armed is noted.

You might lose your wallet,but you wont lose your gun if its CONCEALLED.

That is a fact that I cannot imagine anyone not comprehending.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Posts....

I don't follow the logic of if you open carry more people will attack you.
If some unstable or violent thug attacks a OCer, then there's a strong chance the gun owner will react with lethal force.
A smart & alert gun owner or OCer wouldn't even let some sketchy thug near them.
I've worked in enough "bad areas" to know how the thugs & criminal element act. They "probe" or spot any danger signs then either leave(the smart move) or re-group/change tactics.

A few years ago, in my metro area, a armed security officer in a "bad area" was robbed at gun-point on his post. The thugs ran a clever scam starting out as nice & friendly, the officer let his guard down then the 2 felons pulled out guns & stole the hapless security officer's gun, badge, handcuffs, and OC.

 

[Warp]

I am sure that all who OC are really bad a$$es ,but I just have not met them yet.

Hello

Exactly how many open carriers have you met in New York?

 

[gbran]

This young fellah was robbed at 2am. A good time to be armed. A better time to be indoors.

 

[scaatylobo]

@ warp

LOL, sadly you are NOT very well informed about New York.

New York is a STATE and not THE city of NY.

We have had CCW here for more than a century.

I had my CCW prior to becoming an LEO,and did CCW for guard work and as a armored courier.

And many OC for hunting as well as work ,as guards.

SO,my statement stands as I see it.

And to those that compare a police officer to an OC citizen,it would appear to me that any cop worth his / her badge would be VERY alert at all times when on duty ! --- ya think ?.

Not saying that cops don't have their gun taken ,generally results in the loss of their life too.

I am a FIRM believer in any and all legal carry of a firearm [ and ANY tool to save your butt ].

But I do not see OC as a safe of logical way to be armed for your own safety.

I mention again,I taught "weapon retention" to police officers for 22 years in the academy.

NONE could keep their gun IF a good grab was made = and yes that included me [ he was VERY good too,my martial arts instructor ].

 

[Warp]

And many OC for hunting as well as work ,as guards.

SO,my statement stands as I see it.

So your experience with open carry is hunting and armed uniform security guards?

 

[phil dirt]

Go ahead and exercise your right, but open carry is tactically stupid just the same. Not to mention, it scares the public and that's not good. I'm planning on going to the pro I-591, anti-I-594 rally in downtown Seattle on Saturday, but I cringe when I think of the idiots who will insist on exercising their right to open carry, some of which will be AR-15s or AKs. Presently, in Washington State it's legal, but the TV coverage will make a big deal of it, and next thing you know, the billionaires will be funding another initiative to make it illegal.

 

[Warp]

G Not to mention, it scares the public and that's not good.

That is not my experience.

Is it yours? Where, when, what, how, etc, were you carrying when you scared the public?

 

[kwguy]

if sumone shoves a gun in your face before yu have time to draw. you mite as well be unarmed. its that simple.

Spelling aside, that's pretty much it. If the gun is in your face, and yours is in a holster, pocket, or whatever, then you have lost the draw.

Events can certainly be driven on the part of the victim or the aggressor from that point onward, but exactly how is totally dependent upon the particular situation at that point in time. One option that is (most likely) off the table, is being able to "outdraw" the individual that already has a gun pointed in your face.

Carrying a gun simply presents another option, it is not a panacea to cure all bad things that can happen on a "dark and spooky night..."

 

[Robert]

This is what I get for thinking we could have a mature conversation.