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Oregon Cops confiscate man's guns: he wants them back!

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by harmonic, Mar 12, 2010.

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  1. harmonic

    harmonic member

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    http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100312/NEWS/3120326

    ODOT worker wants guns; police say they'll comply

    MEDFORD — The Medford man whose firearms were seized by police Monday when he was taken into protective custody has asked for their return and police say they will comply with the request.

    David J. Pyles sent an e-mail to police Thursday, asking them to return the items taken from him when a SWAT team and negotiators descended on his Effie Street home early Monday. He forwarded copies to legislators and media outlets.

    Medford Police Chief Randy Schoen said the department plans to return the seized weapons today.

    "He gave them up voluntarily and we don't have a court order to hold them," Schoen said. "We will give them back to him."

    The seizure of Pyles' weapons prompted a debate among gun rights advocates and those who said police acted appropriately after being informed of a potentially threatening situation.

    Medford police said they started watching the Effie Street home Sunday night in response to law enforcement concerns about the resident — later identified as Pyles — after he was placed on administrative leave from his job on Thursday.

    The Oregon Department of Transportation said Pyles is a development planner who started working there in February 2004.

    Medford police described him in a news release as disgruntled and said police knew he had legally purchased a Heckler & Koch .45-caliber handgun, a Walther .380-caliber handgun and an AK-47 rifle since being placed on leave.

    Information compiled by Oregon State Police, Medford and Roseburg police, and Jackson and Douglas county sheriff's departments prompted concerns that Pyles could be a threat. The news release noted that police were "extremely concerned" that he might retaliate against his employer.

    "We wanted to make sure nothing bad happened," Schoen said.

    In an effort to defuse the situation before people started their daily routines on Monday, a SWAT team and negotiators moved in during the pre-dawn hours.

    "He came out voluntarily," Schoen said, noting that he then directed police to the recently purchased weapons, as well as another handgun and a shotgun he owned.

    All the firearms were seized for "safekeeping" and the man was taken to Rogue Valley Medical Center for a mental-health evaluation, police said. He was released several hours later.

    Medford police Lt. Bob Hansen said police generally try to return found, stolen or seized property to its rightful owner as soon as possible and have a procedure for doing so, to ensure that there are not ownership or legal issues. If the property was seized as evidence, courts have the final say on when it can be returned.
     
  2. harmonic

    harmonic member

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  3. harmonic

    harmonic member

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    That is so bogus. Presumptuous cops. Granted, the guy gave them up willingly. I wish he hadn't. I bloody sure wouldn't.
     
  4. Gouranga

    Gouranga Member

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    With this new info...I am more inclined to believe the police may have acted inappropriately. They state he complied with their instructions fully. never acted aggressive. Purchased his weapons legally. Yet they brought in SWAT, locked down a neighborhood, and confiscated his weapons for days now.

    They have not said anything he did that shows he was a danger. I am waiting to hear something compelling that he did to show him as an imminent threat. I have not heard it. Not sounding too good for the police here so far.
     
  5. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Wonder where the anti people from the other thread are with their apologies.

    Would it be un-high road of me to go back to the thread and call them out by name? :evil:

    As for this one, several said in the other thread that lawyers were likely lined up outside his door for this lottery winner. I suspect that's putting it mildly at this point. When this is over he may be GLAD he lost his job. He can probably retire on the settlement.
     
  6. Larry Ashcraft

    Larry Ashcraft Moderator Staff Member

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    Indeed it is. Let's try to keep a fact-based conversation going. Conjecture is what got the last threads killed.
     
  7. harmonic

    harmonic member

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    Granted. But this statement in the article is very troubling:

    He never made any threats. He never gave any indication he was going to cause a problem. They didn't "5150" him. But they took him into protective custody.

    Can cops actually do that? Or is that an Oregon thing?
     
  8. ChaoSS

    ChaoSS Member

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    I want to know what they mean when they say he gave them up voluntarily? Did he say "You can take them", or did he just not shoot back at them? Did showing them where they were constitute giving them up voluntarily in their minds?
     
  9. KBintheSLC

    KBintheSLC Member

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    This situation is truly unnerving... get laid off, go out and buy some guns = complementary visit from the SWAT team, guns seized, and a visit to the nut house for the record.

    I bet that will help him get a job.

    ... groan
     
  10. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    The first article referenced a 72 hour hold, which would be the Oregon equivalent of a 5150 psych hold. It's a loophole that permits de facto arrest even if you've broken no law. Apparently, though, the attempt didn't pass the laugh test at the hospital, where:

    So whatever they found, it wasn't even enough to try to prolong his psych hold.

    And now what have they accomplished, exactly? If he was never going to do anything they've subjected an innocent man to Stalinist psychiatric arrest, seized his arms and humiliated him in front of his neighbors. These kinds of antics also make the entire law enforcement community look like bumbling commissars.


    If he really is planning on slaughtering his former bosses, they have completely hosed any case against him with these extrajudicial tactics. And he'll just go do it when they give him his arms back. This is why "pre-crime" doesn't work.
     
  11. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    i think the key word is voluntarily . you can't call it confiscation.

    be interesting to hear what started it all. maybe we will if the guy taken in choses to allow it
     
  12. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I dunno... if a SWAT team surrounds my house and asks for my guns, is it really voluntary if I comply?

     
  13. Gouranga

    Gouranga Member

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    I would call that an act of self preservation.
     
  14. Mike J

    Mike J Member

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    It would be interesting to know exactly what led the police to take that course of action.
     
  15. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Member

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    Interesting, an armed man with men behind him with weapons at ready asks for a citizen's weapons and it's voluntary? By that criteria armed robbery is persuasive fundraising.
     
  16. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    its all in the semantics. if they just take em or if they say "mr xxxx we want to make sure we have all the weapons before we take you to the hospital is that ok?" and he shows em where they are its likely gonna be voluntary. and his cooperating is also likely to have played a big role in his being released and getting them back. i know that doesn't play well in some circles here but thats how it works in real life. i've taken some folks to the hotel silly with and without the cops to help and we quite often got them to disarm voluntarily. in the intake exam one of the questions is "do you own any weapons? guns? and if you answer yes the next question is "got any on you?"
     
  17. Officers'Wife

    Officers'Wife Member

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    When the semantics are backed by hard eyed men with firearms the language is quite clear. What is taken at gunpoint is not voluntary.
     
  18. cassandrasdaddy

    cassandrasdaddy Member

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    true most often if you object they will ratchet it up to the next level and do the paperwork to take em. and it will probably not score you any points at the psych eval. obviously this guy isn't a poster here for surely none of them woulda given up so easily. of course they would also probably still be in either the hotel silly or jail and the cops would not be announcing they were giving the guns back. this statist cooperated and now he suffers the fruits of his cooperation. being home and getting his guns back. no revolutionary he.

    in this case since he came outa the house voluntarily he got to skip the hole flash bangs flexi cuffs drama . will be nice to stop guessing what he did(or didn't) say or do to ruffle folks
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2010
  19. Guns and more

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    Police do whatever they feel like doing; it's up to the court to decide if they were right.
     
  20. harmonic

    harmonic member

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    I had to laugh out loud at that one.
     
  21. Kingofthehill

    Kingofthehill Member

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    un-freaking real.

    i was holding judgment since this first came out. What I am reading now, This dude better hit them HARD so they think twice before pulling this crap again.

    When I went on Unemployment last year, I bought several guns...Its my Hobby and i obviously had a lot of free time to enjoy that hobby.

    This whole feeling of the movie "Minority Report" is very creepy and hopefully this case will put a stop to any upcoming "Precog" type arrests.
     
  22. Sawblade

    Sawblade Member

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    So basically, Big Brother sent the thought police to arrest this guy and send him to room 101 to make sure he's a good citizen? Not to derail the thread, but I just had to point that out. :D
     
  23. Isher

    Isher Member

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    Doesn't surprise me at all, as a former Medford resident.

    What does surprise me is that nothing seems to have changed

    Since I left there in 1978.

    Go figure.

    isher
     
  24. ants

    ants Member

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    Let's not miss a very important link in this incident.

    No, SOMEBODY called Big Brother and lied to them, told them that he is dangerous and disgruntled and has guns. Only one out of three turned out to be true. Somebody (maybe with a grudge, or just didn't like him) just ruined his life completely. That SOMEBODY oughta fry in Hell.



    Cops and other officials are just too dang busy to drive around looking for people who are recently laid off, and then go investigating to see if they have an attitude and recently bought guns. Way too busy for that crap. Somebody called them and tipped them off. Their over reaction is their fault, and yet will be judged if the victim files an action. I just don't want us to miss the link in the chain that started the cops' unfortunate reaction.
     
  25. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Member

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    He NEEDS to find out who fingered him. That would be the second law suit filed. Then he could buy a range and enjoy his hobby.

    Mark
     
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