Overreacted or was he just an idiot?

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Darth Muffin

member
Joined
Nov 9, 2005
Messages
184
Yesterday morning, about 6:30 AM. In the deserted parking lot of the credit union. I parked in a normal spot near the door and went in to use the cash machine. It's one of those situations where the cash machine is in the lobby and you need to swipe your card to open the door and get it.

When I'm done making my withdrawl, a large ratty pickup truck comes tearing in and parked right in front of the doors, sloppily about 3/4 of the way into the handicapped spot. There were no handicap tags on the truck, and at this point I'm at a high yellow condition wondering what to do. The guy was sitting in his truck, not getting out right away. Maybe he's waiting for me to come out, maybe he's just being polite and not wanting to get in "my space" while I'm using the machine.

I've got my Maxpedition fatboy over my shoulder and my 9mm in the rear pouch. I decided that I would unzip the pouch and walk out with my hand on the gun in case anything developed. I figured the truck was just far enough from the door to allow me to do something before he closed the gap. I exit the door as planned and just as I'm clear of the door he exits the truck and leaps at me! I quickly got "off the X" and sidestepped around behind the tailgate of his truck while drawing my gun (out of the holster and into my hand, but still mostly within the pouch) and reassessing the situation. I discovered that he was just lunging to grab the [lobby] door before it closed, probably too lazy to use his card (assumed because he was also too lazy to park legally) but anyhow no longer my concern. I reholstered (he never saw it) and got out of there.

Comments and constructive criticizm? Yes, I had my cell on me but I didn't feel I was justified in staying in there and calling the police--what would I tell them? "Hi, I'm using the cash machine and someone parked in front really poorly."

Hindsight being 20/20 I probably should have hit the panic button on my car alarm as I exited--the extra diversion and possible attention couldn't hurt.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Given everything we know NOW you over reacted, but given the situation, the time , the circumstances & what you knew then you did fine.

The guy never even knew you were armed, good job
 
You did fine.

The guy never saw it or realized he was in trouble.

Replay what you did, how fast the guy moved and positioning. How much time would you have had if we was hostile and you had not drawn?

I'm willing to bet you might find yourself a little worried on timing and distance if you had not drawn and he had been hostile.
 
Just because someone is paranoid does not mean that someone else is not out to get them. :D

The OP showed good situational awareness. He moved seamlessly to the next step in protecting himself in a high risk location. He proceeded to evaluate the situation and promptly deescalated and left the area. All of this while the suspected BG remained oblivious. Given the circumstances, it was a near flawless performance.

Was there another way to handle the situation? Probably many. The most obvious is avoidance. ATM's are notorious locations for robberies. Therefore, an attack is always a possibility. Don't use them.
 
Darth Muffin,

I have a couple of bits of information to share that I've gleaned from SM (our "what box?" member for out of the box thinking).

Is there any retail establishment that has a "cash back" feature at the register or an ATM inside the store? If there is, please consider the value of being able to get cash while inside a busy store instead of an isolated ATM.

SM has pointed out that drive up ATMs are bad enough, but walkup ATMs are far worse. An active Kroger/WalMart/Home Depot with the ability to give $50 cash back on a pack of gum or bottle of water is much safer for us than either standard option.
 
Actually, I've been using grocery stores for years because frequently you don't need to buy anything, and even if you do, a pack of gum is usually far less than the service fee at an ATM.
 
That's why I use nothing but drive through atm's. I park close enough to it that no one can get between my truck and the atm. :scrutiny: I allways give the person in front of me their "space". You may have overeacted, but I probably would have done the same thing. He should have waited until you cleared the area before moving to the machine.
 
Secret Agent Man

I'm sorry but I can't read anything SM writes W/ out singing that song. That said, I think he may have got it right this time.
 
I exit the door as planned and just as I'm clear of the door he exits the truck and leaps at me! I quickly got "off the X" and sidestepped around behind the tailgate of his truck while drawing my gun (out of the holster and into my hand, but still mostly within the pouch) and reassessing the situation. I discovered that he was just lunging to grab the [lobby] door before it closed, probably too lazy to use his card (assumed because he was also too lazy to park legally) but anyhow no longer my concern.
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm new around here but something occured to me when I was reading this. It sounds like he was just trying to get into the lobby without having a card. Thats probably why you thought something might be wrong. He WAS sitting in his truck waiting for you and paying more attention to you than he should. It just wasn't to mug, but use you as his doorstop. I wasn't there so I cant really say, but thats my impression. Good instincts, nonetheless!
About your Maxpedition you carry. I've seen them in pictures, but never in person or the design of the insides. If this situation HAD gone bad, could you have fired with the gun still inside it? Is that even legal? Or, mechanically possible? Just curious, I'm thinking of one of them myself for when I finally get my permit...


Mike
 
In over 30 yrs of legal CCW, I've only been alarmed enough to draw my weapon once - and that was at a walk-up ATM.

I worked the 2nd shift at a factory in another town at the time and had had to do 4 hrs overtime due to a call-in.

I stopped one the way home (at about 3:30 am) at my bank's branch office in my own town located near the exit ramp I took to get cash for the next day so I could sleep-in a bit later.

While making my transaction a car with out-of-state plates pulled into the lot and a man got out. He had a hand in his jacket pocket and started to approach me.

I put my own hand on the .45 Backup in my left jacket pocket and quickly shoved cash, card and receipt into the other.

When the now-grinning fellow got within about 20 ft. he started babbling "Hey buddy, I need to talk to you for a minute." He still had that hand in his pocket and I didn't like the "vibe" I was getting at all.

That prompted me to tell him to stay where he was and show me his hands.

He swore and did neither, continuing to walk towards me. When he had closed a bit less than half the remaining distance I drew and repeated my requests.

He stopped approaching, but kept the hand in his pocket. I brought the pistol up from low ready and repeated the request to show me his hands NOW!

The grin disappeared, his hand came out of the pocket and he started saying "Hey! I just wanted to ask you which of these exits to take to get to Bloomington!"

Bloomington is about 150 miles from where we were and the nearby interstate doesn't come within about 40 miles of it. I'd also seen that his lights had come from the direction of the exit from the northbound lanes.

So I told him that I had no idea what the exit number might be, and suggested that he get back in his car, head towards Indy and look for the signs. Now.

He did. I wrote down his tag number and went up the street to the county jail (no cell phone then) and reported the incident to the deputy at the desk.

No more walk-up ATMs for me unless in the direst of emergencies. I'll never really know for sure what that guy's real intentions might've been, and sometimes wonder if I overreacted, too.

You did what was reasonable and prudent, IMO. Wish that I'd been able to do as well. I didn't like being at that point and hope to never go there again.
 
Darth Muffin said:
a large ratty pickup truck comes tearing in and parked right in front of the doors, sloppily about 3/4 of the way into the handicapped spot.
Click to expand...

Considering the information you had, and the spidie-sense of condition yellow, you did just fine.

But I have to give you some advice. If you ever have to start blasting townies in my area, please stop before you de-populate the county.

People in Wisconsin have access to lots of pick-em-up trucks, and they rust fast due to all of the exposure to the monsterous amounts of salt they use here.

No one uses turn signals here.

Everyone parks crooked.

It's getting better, but many still use handicapped parking.

And one final word of advice, while you didn't describe the driver of the truck, we can all imagine him. Yikes, it could have been anyone on our common counsel late for a legislative meeting.

Like our dairy farmers here say, "Got Schlitz?"
 
It's awfully easy to armchair quaterback a situation like this. Only one person on this board was there, did not have the benefit of any other advice at the time, and reacted according to his training. After the fact, well, maybe he could have handled it better or differently however, noone was hurt, the pistol never actually came into play, and both parties walked away.

I can think of several occasions when I have placed my hand on my pistol butt because someone approached me in a manner that made me uncomfortable, suspicious, and wary. Usually asking for change or a smoke, to which my standard response is, "I don't have any to give."

Either way, I'm glad it turned out the way it did.

Wheeler
 
This is one of those, you don't know what you'd do until your really there. But the way I'm imagining it, the lobby has camras. Think fast, move slow. I don't think I'd have put my had on the gun until I knew that I'm being thretned. I'd stay in camra view, and ask out loud, "are you going in"? Watch the door shut and walk away. You'll hear the door open if he's coming after you. Than again, I wasn't there. It may have been totaly different than what I'm imaging.
 
Avoidance is key: When there is the possibility of attack arrange to be somewhere else.

There is an old fashioned way to avoid the ATM. Go into the bank and cash a check with the teller. Obviously it takes more time (and scheduling) to do this. But there are some advantages that offset the inconvenience. Most important among them is the opportunity to meet the platform officers. Chatting up the manager is a good idea, too. When it is time to ask for a loan, having a personal relationship with the manager will go along way in speeding the process along. If you live in a state that has laws against open carry or brandishing, having that relationship will usually get you off with a lecture rather than a bill from an attorney and the possible loss of privileges you hold so dear.
 
Sounds like a perfect self preservation exercise.
Situational Awareness, reasonable reaction and distancing, and great observation of the declining threat.
You did not expose your weapon so the truck driver didn't need to go home and change pants, no accidental discharges, nobody has any holes...all is good.

:cool:
 
Thanks for the comments all. Based on what I knew I still think I reacted reasonably. I wasn't trying to profile based on the vehicle or person (all I saw was a silhouette wearing a ball cap in the truck until he got out), other than my personal observation that anytime someone parks and behaves like that it's always in a jacked-up Ford truck... that's getting way OT though ;)

I don't normally use ATMs under such circumstances, but this was unusual. An emergency developed at work and I had to make a trip out of town to handle it. This was the only opportunity I had to get the amount of cash I needed.

Hi, I'm new around here but something occured to me when I was reading this. It sounds like he was just trying to get into the lobby without having a card. Thats probably why you thought something might be wrong. He WAS sitting in his truck waiting for you and paying more attention to you than he should. It just wasn't to mug, but use you as his doorstop. I wasn't there so I cant really say, but thats my impression. Good instincts, nonetheless!
About your Maxpedition you carry. I've seen them in pictures, but never in person or the design of the insides. If this situation HAD gone bad, could you have fired with the gun still inside it? Is that even legal? Or, mechanically possible? Just curious, I'm thinking of one of them myself for when I finally get my permit...
Click to expand...

My wife, who works for the credit union, says the guy may have been trying to do something like plant a card reader on the ATM (it happens) which is why he needed someone else to open the door.

Firing in the maxpedition would depend on what you're doing for a holster in the back compartment (it doesn't come with one). With my setup, I'd have to get the gun about 2-3" from fully drawn out of the pouch before I could fire, and I'd still have to tip it sideways first. Not to mention my P11 would probably not cycle properly and become a single shot if I did that. Might as well just draw it all the way. I had my hand fully around the grip, the butt of the grip was maybe level with or at most an inch out of the pack (and covered by my hand). Gun was still pointing down and wasn't drawn enough for the trigger to clear the holster.

I prefer IWB carry, or even pocket carry, but the Maxpedition is useful for some circumstances like traveling, trade shows, or where you have to disarm frequently (like leaving it in the car when you're at work and not risking exposing the gun to ANYONE like you'd have to do transferring from IWB).
 
A very interesting and scary story, brings to mind a similiar one for me.

I had just finished a second shift (4pm-12am) and really needed to get some cash for a friend. (I owed him big time and waiting till morning was not an option.)

The bank I used didn't have a drive-up ATM and it was the only one that was on the way home, others were outta my way and just an inconvenience. So I pull up and illegally park my car in the fire lane, right in front of the door (just in case I needed to beat feet outta there). I made my transaction and proceeded to my car. While I was at the ATM a guy (that I didn't even know was on the premises) happened to be waiting right outside the door.

NOTE: It's dark as hell and this guy is dressed in a torn-up black hoodie w/no markings, black baseball cap, black baggy jeans and black shoes. On top of that he didn't have his face up in a normal position, it was kinda at a downward angle so I really couldn't see his face.

When I exited the ATM Lobby he said... "Hey man. You can you spare me a $20?? to which I replied, sorry man I just grabbed enough to pay a bill and it's all I have. to which he replied :cuss: you man I was just watching you and I know how much you have, you've got enough." I started to back to my car and politely told him again. Sorry I really don't have enough and I don't appreciate you watching me and finding out what I have on me. On top of that sir I would suggest you step back slowly and leave me alone. By now I am about 5 steps away from him and he smuggly replies What the :cuss: are you gonna do if I don't???

Now I'm getting nervous and I mean really nervous. So I tell him the plain truth. If you come closer sir I will have to resort to violence which I don't condon and to be honest I am carrying my .45 (which I had placed my hand upon and released the button strap) and I really don't feel like using it. Please sir turn around and walk away, I am leaving RIGHT NOW!!!

Thank god he obligied my demand and turned to walk away while muttering out :cuss: you man!!!

Let me tell you I have only been that scared one other time in my life and that was when we were getting shot at in Iraq.

I personnally feel you did just fine, given the stress and adrenaline that must have been coursing through you. I know the feeling and when it comes down to it, you just do what is instinctive. Whether it's the training that you've practiced or what just pops into you head and such a quick notice.

You managed to avoid being run over by this mans lunging and on top of that you never drew your weapon into clear view. He was, like someone else said, probably just using you a a door stop because he was to friggin lazy to give you proper personal space, by waiting for you to clear the door and walk way.

I must say at least your (possible) perp didn't even confront you like some of ours have, but that doesn't make it a less tense situation for you. We are all different and have different levels of assesment and stress limits. I feel that all of use have done the right thing at the right moment. We all made it out without harm or even a single shot fired. I'd say that is pretty damn good, and we did pretty damn good. We could be unfortunate and be like some people out that that have had to draw and fire, and then explain for the next 2hrs of their life just what happened. Even those guys are lucky, because they go out alive. Some aren't even that lucky.

So with that said good job my friend, I am glad to hear that you are safe and sound. I will not critique your story or actions, it was well spoken and well played out. that is all.

USMCDK
 
This goes along with what I have heard for years...a lot of people won't use the ATM after dark. I almost always do all my errands late at night...Subway for a sandwich at 10pm, filling up the car, trip to ATM, stocking up at Wal-Mart at 1am, etc. There is NEVER anyone at my favorite ATM when I stop there. It's attached to a bank branch in a parking lot of a strip mall where everything closes by 6pm and you have to park at the curb and walk 25-30 feet up a sidewalk to get to the ATM. I always go where I want to go as I have a policy of minding my own business and damn well expect others to leave me alone. What's really strange is, half of the time I go there, others will park next to my car and wait for me to get my cash, then they proceed to use the ATM. Sometimes a couple of cars will come up...seems just as many women, if not more, than men. I am always aware of everything that goes on around me, so I am prepared, but it's really a curious thing. I think the completely empty lot is a bit scary, but all it takes is one car and one person and the place becomes a traffic jam. I drive by the same ATM an hour later, on the way back from Wally World or Subway, and it's deserted again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

M
  • Locked
Sometimes being seen as vigilant is enough
2
Replies
33
Views
2K
Buck83
B
P
  • Locked
Awareness on vacation
Replies
17
Views
765
printcraft
P
S
  • Locked
I may have over-reacted...
2 3 4
Replies
88
Views
5K
packnrat
P
T
  • Locked
What if, from the LEO point of view.
2
Replies
35
Views
2K
dustind
D
O
  • Locked
Did I overreact?
2
Replies
40
Views
1K
MedWheeler
M
Back
Top