Papers, please?

[IA_farmboy]

This isn't related to firearms exactly but it certainly is legal and political.

http://www.wmtradio.com/cc-common/news/sections/newsarticle.html?feed=104668&article=2349337

Police Arrest Suspicious Man Outside Obama's Hotel

The Ohio man was arrested along one of presidential hopeful Senator Barack Obama's stops in Iowa - carrying no I.D. and a very large knife.
Thursday, July 5, 2007
Campaign 2008: Get the latest news, video, and polls!

United Press International

An Ohio man considered suspicious by U.S. Secret Service agents protecting presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., was arrested outside an Iowa hotel.

Ottumwa, Iowa, police arrested David Zakaryan, 24, of Cincinnati, Wednesday and charged him with not having identification and possession of a knife with a blade longer than 8 inches, The Des Moines Register reported.

Obama ended a two-day swing through Iowa on Wednesday at a ballgame but the diehard Chicago White Sox fan was uneasy about throwing his support to the Iowa Cubs in a promotional video, the Register reported.

"Oh, no, I'm not so sure about this," Obama said to a Cubs staffer who asked him to record a video saying, "The I-Cubs are my Cubs!"

Obama went on to use his diplomatic skills by adding a disclaimer to the video, saying with a shake of his head, "I'm going to be rooting now for the I-Cubs, at least," the Register reported.

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Let's see if I have this straight. The guy was acting "suspicious", whatever that means. So he's stopped and patted down. OK, sounds like a perfectly legal "Terry stop" so far. They find a knife, a large knife. So they charge him with what I assume is a "dangerous weapon" charge. I don't know what the knife looked like since the only description was "longer than 8 inches". That could mean a very strong and sharp Bowie knife or a very flimsy and relatively harmless bread knife. What really bothers me is that he was charged with not carrying identification. When did people need to have identification to walk down the streets in Iowa?

 

[kbheiner7]

I hate to hear stories like this.

Of course we don't know the whole story, but these Gestapo stories are becoming all too common.

 

[Green Lantern]

You sure the reporter knows what s/he's talking about? Sure, I can see the being charged for the knife (it's illegal to carry ANY fixed-blade knife concealed in NC)....but no ID?

Either somethings fishy with the reporting, or liberty exited "stage right" in Iowa and nobody noticed....

 

[modifiedbrowning]

charged with not carrying identification

I thought that after the case of the citizen in NV (Hebbard?) that as long as you gave the Police your name you did not need to show identification.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

"They" charge you with everything that they can, in the hope that
something will stick. Also the DA will undoubtably do a plea bargain
and some charges will be dropped. They have to have something to
drop.

 

[mesomorphcujo]

JYD is right there. I call it stacking charges. I had one get carried away with stacking charges that he put the code for running a sham or front company on a traffic stop in hopes that something would stick. Some do that all the time.

 

[Clipper]

Lots of states (including mine) require anyone over 18 to have either a driver's license or state ID card in their posession.

 

[JohnBT]

"Zakaryan, 24, in a white undershirt, was pacing outside his small, black car with Ohio license plates when Obama's security detail confronted near Obama's motorcade in the parking lot of the Fairfield Inn in Ottumwa. Soon, local police arrived, and began inspecting his car and identity documents. The scene was visible to departing reporters on the nearby press bus."

Another report said he was charged with driving without a license and that the knife was in the car. Seems like the the facts are in short supply - probably because the "scene was visible to departing reporters."

John

 

[Green Lantern]

Lots of states (including mine) require anyone over 18 to have either a driver's license or state ID card in their posession.

I didn't realize that, and don't know how that works in NC - but it's a moot point for me anyways:

1) Living out in the sticks, I drive pretty much everywhere. When driving, one must be in possession of their driver's license.

2) I also CCW, and I DO know the law states that when carrying, you must carry your permit AND .gov ID.

I dunno though, I always assumed that any non-driving, non CCWing citizen anywhere didn't HAVE to have ID on them.

 

[Old Dog]

Lots of states (including mine) require anyone over 18 to have either a driver's license or state ID card in their posession.

Let's see some laws, please.

You are required to have a driver license when operating a motor vehicle, an ID card indicating you're of legal age when in a bar, etc., but having worked in law enforcement in three states, I'm not aware of any law requiring adults to always have valid ID in their possession.

 

[ServiceSoon]

I'm not aware of any law requiring adults to always have valid ID in their possession.

I wonder how long until that changes? I remember seeing a video of an old man who didnt want to give the police his ID. He was arrested shortly after that.

 

[IA_farmboy]

I'm not aware of any law requiring adults to always have valid ID in their possession.

I wonder how long until that changes? I remember seeing a video of an old man who didnt want to give the police his ID. He was arrested shortly after that.

You can see that video here:
http://papersplease.org/hiibel/

 

[Alphazulu6]

charged with not carrying identification

I thought that after the case of the citizen in NV (Hebbard?) that as long as you gave the Police your name you did not need to show identification.

Yeah it sounds fishy.

 

[Art Eatman]

My understanding is that you must tell your name. It's a court-decision thing, and we've already gone around and around about that in this forum.

If you've gone to lying, you're probably gonna look like you're lying. The very nature of a cop's work makes it great OJT for lie-detecting. Lie to a cop and he's gonna check deeper and deeper and deeper...

You never know what you'll run into in a casual, "Who are you?" encounter. Back when I rode with the Austin PD's"Buddy Patrol", we stopped and queried a clean-cut young man. Got a name; left and continued patrolling. Turned in the Encounter Slip. Turned out the guy was wanted in Wyoming for murder. Fortunately, he hadn't walked far...

Art

 

[GTSteve03]

Move along citizen, nothing to see here.

Remember, this is America, land of the free. There's no way we're a police state!

 

[Blackfork]

my name: Jose Jimenez.

ID laws don't seem to affect the 12-20 million folks who have walked up into the country from Mexico. Must just be for everyone else.

 

[ConstitutionCowboy]

ID? Why an ID? I've been to court many times and never once been asked for an ID. I've testified. I've been through divorce twice. I've been a plaintiff. I've even been a defendant once. If my word is good enough for the Court, wouldn't it be good enough for the constabulary?

I wonder: Do they ask for an ID before they execute a warrant for your arrest? Do they somehow know who you are without looking at your ID? I think it's all about intimidation.

"I vill read for you now zee rules - ANDT YOU VILL LIKE ZEM!"

Woody

"If someone is so fearful that they are going to start using their weapons to protect their rights, it makes me very nervous that these people have weapons at all." ~~Henry Waxman

 

[Clipper]

I'm not gonna sift through statutes looking for some link...My daughter was with some friends, and they got pulled over, and one of the girls, when asked, said she had no ID since she didn't drive, but when she said she was 18, she was issued a ticket for no ID, and no, she wasn't driving.

 

[another okie]

Art, the Supreme Court case related only to the state in which it occurred or states with similar laws, which require citizens to identify themselves (not to carry ID) in certain situations. It has no relevance to states with no such laws, which is most states. The decision was very badly misreported. In most states you can simply refuse to answer. Even in states with such laws, all you have to do is say your name.

I don't know of any state which requires ID to be carried in all situations. That's known as an "internal passport." I've never heard of such a requirement. What if you're swimming? Or at a nudist camp?

 

[TallPine]

I never carry my drivers license unless I am going into town. That includes driving around on the dirt/gravel roads in the "neighborhood" (~10 mile radius).

If for some strange reason I ever get stopped, they can radio in my name and DOB and get all the information that they need.

 

[Art Eatman]

another okie, I said zilch about "carrying ID".

In the "casual encounter" stop to which I referred, I don't recall anything beyond a casual "Who are you?" questioning. No "Show papers!" at all. The tenor of the conversation could well have included an offer of help, had there been need.

Art

 

[nemoaz]

ID laws don't seem to affect the 12-20 million folks who have walked up into the country from Mexico.

Waiting for Tecumseh to declare this thread closed for mentioning illegal aliens.

Additional Tecumseh bait: Islam... it's da bomb!

 

[Thin Black Line]

The Ohio man was arrested along one of presidential hopeful Senator Barack Obama's stops in Iowa - carrying no I.D. and a very large knife.

From Ohio or the Outback?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_pWDJp7l6Ww

"That's a knife...."

 

[Werewolf]

I wonder: Do they ask for an ID before they execute a warrant for your arrest? Do they somehow know who you are without looking at your ID? I think it's all about intimidation.

Almost...

LEO's are trained to take immediate control of any situation. By demanding ID and getting it the LEO has established his authority, determined that you are compliant and by the way you responded to the order has garnered information about how you may/probably will react to further orders. Think back to the times - other than a traffic stop - that you've been asked for ID by a LEO. In my experience they barely do more than even glance at it. Getting your ID is less about knowing who you are and more about determining your level of compliance.

Which makes the demand for ID more about control than intimidation - though if the LEO can initmidate you he's even further ahead of the curve in the control game.

And control is what it is all about. Governments can only be effective if they control the people. LEO's are the tool used to effect that control. At the micro level it is absolutely imperative that a LEO immediately establish control when any contact is made with either an individual or group. If LEO's lose control at the micro level that would eventually, over time, snowball to a loss of control at the macro level and that means loss of governmental control. So every encounter with a LEO will begin with the LEO doing his level best to establish control.

LEO's think they're doing it for their own safety (and in a way they are) but in the grand scheme of things as agents of and wielders of the force that governments control they are doing it so the master they serve can stay the master.

 

[pcosmar]

Just a few years ago anyone who spoke of a national ID was a conspiracy theorist, wack job nut. Now comes the Real ID which was included in the Republicans Debate. Now We have the Top Tier candidates saying we need to have our "papers".
They are trying to move in that direction. This is no longer tinfoil hattery.